Indonesian anger and threats of violence

[jaffa]

I have a very unpleasant encounter with my former landlord on the weekend who threatened to kill me (twice) and destroy any of my business on the island.

I was really shocked but had been warned about this. A friend - a guest from Australia - was returning some dirty bed sheets (about 5 years old and worth $1-2) and was engaged by my Landlord asking where he was going and who owned the sheets. He thought the neighbour was the owner (as I slept across the road at the neighbours house - who is a very good friend of the Landlord) and then it kicked off.
He called the Banjar, his neighbour and the Police in between bouts of super aggressive behaviour telling me that i was a liar, a bad person, etc .
I then said I wasn't interested in dealing with the local police who are his mates and suggested I call the tourist Police to come from Kuta. He then went into another fit of rage saying that he is a good person and would never influence Police etc, before then threatening to destroy me with his high level contacts in Government and the Police. Dumb or what?

My friend - who is thinking of investing here - was just dumbfounded. I was enraged inside but thanks to the guidance of a regular contributor on here (the neighbour) kept my cool and kept apologising and advising that it was a mis undertsanding. My friend is a doctor and multiple business owner but the landlord kept saying it was the principle of the matter (that he was trying to steal dirty sheets and take them across the road to the neighbor)

Long story short after a stint in the Police Station it was resolved amicable BUT my friend was left with a very bad taste in his mouth and I am not sure he is still interest in investing in Bali. Sad......

My issue is that the culprit is a wealthy man who has dealing with Westerners everyday in business and socially (he has 12 foreigners who live in his homestay). His behaviour was frightening and made me have 2nd thoughts about living here. I mean I could have floored him with a strong exhale of breathe but he has some powerful contacts.

This might come across as slightly racist BUT I am inclined to think that there might be other reasons why our Western countries don't allow people freely to move between 3rd world and 1st world. The lack of intellect in situations like this, respect for the rule of law (regardless of wealth) and the treatment of people with different coloured skin means many many Indonesians can and never will be suitable to live in Australia, Europe, etc. Controversial?
Yes, but you can not behave like that and expect there not to be repercussions in the West. Threats of violence and fits of extreme anger are not the domain of rational, educated people who know they are backed by a sound Legal system. I acted like that as a 16 year old (angry young boy) but not as a mature adult with business dealings and relationships.

Would like to hear of similar stories and how you resolved them (Emergency number for situations like this? Embassies?)

 

[jaffa]

I have a very unpleasant encounter with my former landlord on the weekend who threatened to kill me (twice) and destroy any of my business on the island.

I "had" I meant to say. Shocking that native speakers of English can't get the language right ;0

 

[soontobeexpat]

I am so confused, maybe its just me but there is a huge chunk missing as to why it "kicked off"

 

[soontobeexpat]

But also, in Australia every week we hear about things like this but instead of threatening to kill the neighbour they do kill the neighbour.. I dont know why you think it is a 3rd world attitude to behave like a Moron but it happens more here I would think than there.. People always threaten who they know inm high places - whether they do know them is another story..

You could have contacted the tourist police but it sounds like a mountain out of a molehill before someone said something that made someone snap.

 

[balibule]

I wonder how the tourist police would feel about being called over for a 5 year old bedsheet

 

[jaffa]

I am so confused, maybe its just me but there is a huge chunk missing as to why it "kicked off"

Sorry your right "soontobeexpat" - didnt explain it perfectly.

Landlord stopped my friend walking across the road (7m between his homestay and the neighbour gate) and asked my friend from Australia "Who's bed sheets are those". He answered what he thought was correct , as he assumed they had come from neighbour the night before.
So he kinda set my friend up with question/answer but we had to beg and explain 30 times over 2 hours, that he was not stealing (and 'hiding' them with the neighbour) BUT rather assumed they did belong to the neighbour.
The Neighbour happens to be a good friend of the loony Landlord for more than 8 years PLUS his business Visa sponsor anyway.

Absolute non event for any Westerner, but big big issue in the their little world......So sad..

 

[Georgie]

I have a very unpleasant encounter with my former landlord on the weekend who threatened to kill me (twice) and destroy any of my business on the island.

I was really shocked but had been warned about this. A friend - a guest from Australia - was returning some dirty bed sheets (about 5 years old and worth $1-2) and was engaged by my Landlord asking where he was going and who owned the sheets. He thought the neighbour was the owner (as I slept across the road at the neighbours house - who is a very good friend of the Landlord) and then it kicked off.
He called the Banjar, his neighbour and the Police in between bouts of super aggressive behaviour telling me that i was a liar, a bad person, etc .
I then said I wasn't interested in dealing with the local police who are his mates and suggested I call the tourist Police to come from Kuta. He then went into another fit of rage saying that he is a good person and would never influence Police etc, before then threatening to destroy me with his high level contacts in Government and the Police. Dumb or what?

My friend - who is thinking of investing here - was just dumbfounded. I was enraged inside but thanks to the guidance of a regular contributor on here (the neighbour) kept my cool and kept apologising and advising that it was a mis undertsanding. My friend is a doctor and multiple business owner but the landlord kept saying it was the principle of the matter (that he was trying to steal dirty sheets and take them across the road to the neighbor)

Long story short after a stint in the Police Station it was resolved amicable BUT my friend was left with a very bad taste in his mouth and I am not sure he is still interest in investing in Bali. Sad......

My issue is that the culprit is a wealthy man who has dealing with Westerners everyday in business and socially (he has 12 foreigners who live in his homestay). His behaviour was frightening and made me have 2nd thoughts about living here. I mean I could have floored him with a strong exhale of breathe but he has some powerful contacts.

This might come across as slightly racist BUT I am inclined to think that there might be other reasons why our Western countries don't allow people freely to move between 3rd world and 1st world. The lack of intellect in situations like this, respect for the rule of law (regardless of wealth) and the treatment of people with different coloured skin means many many Indonesians can and never will be suitable to live in Australia, Europe, etc. Controversial?
Yes, but you can not behave like that and expect there not to be repercussions in the West. Threats of violence and fits of extreme anger are not the domain of rational, educated people who know they are backed by a sound Legal system. I acted like that as a 16 year old (angry young boy) but not as a mature adult with business dealings and relationships.

Would like to hear of similar stories and how you resolved them (Emergency number for situations like this? Embassies?)

I am a little confused with the story, but get the gist that was an altercation that turned into a threat of your life (and your friend). Also, that you were asking about similar stories or advise.

Being that the landlord called the Banjar I am only to presume he is Balinese. We had an altercation with a Balinese once when we lived in a village, he was the brother of the Kepala Dusun so we thought we were in for some serious issues with our business. He threatened to kill me (I am a woman) and then hubby threatened to kill him. However after talking calmly to the retired village head he said it could be sorted out easily. He called in a Priest, the Priest is actually the most respected man in any village to Hindu Balinese, over police or Banjar; and the priest talked calmly to the angry man, who calmed down and all was sorted. Now, in our village our Priests are actually holymen as they are all Sudra's but in Seminyak you will have Priests (they probably need a little money for their trouble).

It really did calm everything down and although the angry guy still gives us evil stares we don't feel threatened anymore and in fact laugh at him, which is considered to infuriate in the Western world but more of the norm here; and the advice from the 'Holyman" was to always laugh, as to show anger in public shows that you are the weaker of the two.

Remember, in the more remote villages altercations between Balinese never involve the police (police cost money), they involve the village men, it is different here and it doesn't mean it is wrong, it is just different. In our village (in Bangli region), altercations often end with someone being stabbed. The person (if survives) never presses charges and police generally only arrive to prevent tourists from entering the village and being privy to the scene. It's like watching a cock fight, the men surround the two (including children), scream for who they wish to win, one backs down (if not dead) and it's over and sorted very quickly. This happened quite recently (I believe it made the papers this time) and the one who was worst off (2 stab wounds to the stomach) is back out of hospital, working again and I saw him smoking a cigarette with the other guy only yesterday.

 

[jaffa]

But also, in Australia every week we hear about things like this but instead of threatening to kill the neighbour they do kill the neighbour.. I dont know why you think it is a 3rd world attitude to behave like a Moron but it happens more here I would think than there.. People always threaten who they know inm high places - whether they do know them is another story..

You could have contacted the tourist police but it sounds like a mountain out of a molehill before someone said something that made someone snap.

I disagree. Their are consequences for your actions in countries with strong rule of law and open media which mean we think twice about acting like totally and utter Morons (most of us anyway). When the world's most powerful media baron (Murdoch) can be hauled before British MPs and told he is 'not a fit and proper person to run a business in the UK' I feel a great sense of pride in living in fair countries where corruption and illegal behaviour will (eventually) catch up with you.

Perhaps the murder trial of Tommy Soherto tells us a little about their respect for the law here.........

 

[soontobeexpat]

I wonder how the tourist police would feel about being called over for a 5 year old bedsheet

About 500,000 IDR richer??

 

[jaffa]

About 500,000 IDR richer??

Touche........

 

[balibule]

And who would pay them 500.000?

 

[soontobeexpat]

the original poster who would have called them haha

 

[balibule]

:icon_lol:

 

[jaffa]

Can i borrow rp. 500k BaliBule?

the original poster who would have called them haha

 

[Adam]

But also, in Australia every week we hear about things like this but instead of threatening to kill the neighbour they do kill the neighbour.. I dont know why you think it is a 3rd world attitude to behave like a Moron but it happens more here I would think than there.. People always threaten who they know inm high places - whether they do know them is another story..

You could have contacted the tourist police but it sounds like a mountain out of a molehill before someone said something that made someone snap.

Soontobeexpat,

Firstly GDay, no talk for long time. Hows the bub?

Secondly, are you seriously suggesting that rule of law is observed more strictly in Indo than Oz??? Are you kidding me??? Sorry, (and don't get me wrong, I do genuinely like the place) but Indo (and especially Bali) is the home of brainless thought and action. To compound this problem, bureaucracy is not neutral nor transparent and racism against the foreigner is almost guaranteed. Jaffa is correct when he states that there is a proportion of Indonesians that should not be allow to leave Indonesia for the sake of everyones benefit. There's a reason why Indonesia is in the state it is - Indonesians live there!

I love one of them very dearly but generally find them very, very difficult to trust. Jaffa's post highlights why.

 

[gilbert de jong]

works both ways...racism (place-ism) by foreigners against Balinese/Indonesian also widely seen here.
and there are also a big part of Aussies and other nationalities that should not be allowed to enter Bali/Indonesia.


as for the original 'problem' OP, sabar

 

[Adam]

works both ways...racism (place-ism) by foreigners against Balinese/Indonesian also widely seen here.

Agree to a point. BUT when officialdom is against you right from the start it's pretty easy to feel vulnerable. If I had an issue in Oz, the UK, the USA, Germany or even Singapore or Japan for that matter, I'd expect fair treatment, regardless of my origins, and have 100% trust with the officers involved. Indo - no way - and this is downright bloody unacceptable, no excuses. If Jaffa's problem had occured in any of the aforementioned locations he would have nothing to sweat about and the antagonistic clown would have got a clip behind the ear for being a wanker. Instead, one tosser and his actions can make life miserable for some perfectly innocent bystander simply because "I'm from here". Garbage.

"and there are also a big part of Aussies and other nationalities that should not be allowed to enter Bali/Indonesia"

Some shouldn't be allowed to leave their suburb, much less the country. And I can't wait for that big wall to be built around the equator, either ;P

 

[gilbert de jong]

hihihihi..true true.

 

[jaffa]

I am a little confused with the story, but get the gist that was an altercation that turned into a threat of your life (and your friend). Also, that you were asking about similar stories or advise.

Being that the landlord called the Banjar I am only to presume he is Balinese. We had an altercation with a Balinese once when we lived in a village, he was the brother of the Kepala Dusun so we thought we were in for some serious issues with our business. He threatened to kill me (I am a woman) and then hubby threatened to kill him. However after talking calmly to the retired village head he said it could be sorted out easily. He called in a Priest, the Priest is actually the most respected man in any village to Hindu Balinese, over police or Banjar; and the priest talked calmly to the angry man, who calmed down and all was sorted. Now, in our village our Priests are actually holymen as they are all Sudra's but in Seminyak you will have Priests (they probably need a little money for their trouble).

It really did calm everything down and although the angry guy still gives us evil stares we don't feel threatened anymore and in fact laugh at him, which is considered to infuriate in the Western world but more of the norm here; and the advice from the 'Holyman" was to always laugh, as to show anger in public shows that you are the weaker of the two.

Remember, in the more remote villages altercations between Balinese never involve the police (police cost money), they involve the village men, it is different here and it doesn't mean it is wrong, it is just different. In our village (in Bangli region), altercations often end with someone being stabbed. The person (if survives) never presses charges and police generally only arrive to prevent tourists from entering the village and being privy to the scene. It's like watching a cock fight, the men surround the two (including children), scream for who they wish to win, one backs down (if not dead) and it's over and sorted very quickly. This happened quite recently (I believe it made the papers this time) and the one who was worst off (2 stab wounds to the stomach) is back out of hospital, working again and I saw him smoking a cigarette with the other guy only yesterday.

Thanks for taking the time to write about your experience Georgie. Really helpful.

I don;t agree that it is 'just different' though (their justice system in the small villages). It is wrong - and that's how modern secular, pluralist democracies separate themselves from the rest of the world. Through strong legal systems where a highly skilled independent person (Judge) reviews the facts and decides.
What of the dangers of a physical alteration with someone when you can’t prove the crime? You kill a man and then find out he is innocent. The guy in my dispute is 1/2 my size, so I guess I would have been the winner huh?
When a Balinese property owner in Kuta has a dispute they often use modern(ish) processes via the courts, so why not have this filter down to all levels of society?

It is also up to the leaders of Balinese communities to explain to the less educated the benefits of Western justice (and also the dangers!) and that having a knife fight to settle a score is rather archaic and stupid.

 

[JohnnyCool]

Unlike some other posters here, I don't understand this story about some allegedly "stolen bed sheets". Nor why it escalated as much as it did. There must be more to this.
Or perhaps it has to do with dealing with a wealthy Seminyak Balinese someone pissed-off big time. (Emerging Seminyak anti-bule Syndrome?)

One should always remember, when living in a turd world country, that western notions of "law" and "law enforcement" are figurative, at best. (They're also not always squeaky-clean in "developed countries".)

This tiny island is struggling. Some Balinese see that, many don't (and seem genuinely surprised by the mere suggestion that the "good times" might have a use-by-date).

The current population is about 3.9 million, including 800,000 non-Balinese. Tourists add another couple of million/year (not including domestic tourists from other parts of Indonesia).
These numbers, on an island that could comfortably cope in the past with an "ideal" population of some 1.5 million, have been exceeded.

Apart from some "wealthy Balinese", (and big investors from Java and abroad), others are not reaping the "benefits" of rampant "development".
Current land/property prices on Bali are unsustainably high.

Take, for example, a Balinese trying to make a living by working in a bar or restaurant. How will he/she ever earn enough money to buy some land and build a house on it?
If they don't have family and family land in their own villages, they're stuffed. Could take them 1,000 years to pay for it.

I think that sooner or later, some Balinese will say "enough is enough". Who they might direct their anger at is unclear to me. Bules, Balinese governors, the president, even their own banjars?

Perceived "loss of face", for whatever reason, (even some bed sheets), can be a problem in many countries (especially Asian ones).
Don't be surprised that underneath the welcoming and smiling faces in Bali, there might be a volcano waiting to erupt.

:icon_cool: