• Welcome to the newly upgraded forum. If you spot any problems or issues please post them here

Thumps

New Member
Mar 6, 2014
17
0
1
I was referred to this forum from trip advisor. So here goes.... We, meaning my family of 2 adults and 2 kids ages 5 and 15, are very seriously wanting to purchase a Villa (hopefully in Sanur area), and move to Bali from Australia. Mother-in-law will probably join us too.
I am after some guidance/advice, as I'm not sure of the process etc, of moving to Bali. What is the first step? I've been looking at 4 bedroom villas, which are very reasonably priced.

Look forward to a lot of information as, I want to get it right for our family.
Thankyou
 

gilbert de jong

Active Member
Jan 20, 2009
3,198
2
36
Panji, Singaraja.
welcome Thumps,

no harm in looking at 4bdrm villa's ofcourse, but have you thought about :
1. visa's ?
2. buying (using nominee) or leasing (setting up PMA) or renting ?
3. kids....school ?
4. insurances ?
5. budget ?
These are just a couple of things that you might not have thought about...
Unfortunately there's not a "1 answer fits all" to your question
 

Thumps

New Member
Mar 6, 2014
17
0
1
welcome Thumps,

no harm in looking at 4bdrm villa's ofcourse, but have you thought about :
1. visa's ?
2. buying (using nominee) or leasing (setting up PMA) or renting ?
3. kids....school ?
4. insurances ?
5. budget ?
These are just a couple of things that you might not have thought about...
Unfortunately there's not a "1 answer fits all" to your question

In reference to number 2, we definitely want to buy, not sure what using a nominee is though?
Budget for a house would be no more than $280 000AUD.
 

samsiam

Member
Feb 2, 2014
860
1
18
And what will you do with the house after 25 years ?

First advice I can give and it is very wise advice and free....leave the MIL in Australia.
 

Thumps

New Member
Mar 6, 2014
17
0
1
I guess we would decide in 25 years
That is where I get confused, what is the best way to buy. Freehold or leasehold?
 

davita

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2012
4,441
146
63
Hi Thumps and welcome to the forum.

For explanation I'm assuming you are NOT married to an Indonesian.
You should search for many threads/posts on the subject of property purchase by foreigners in Indonesia/Bali and ask specific questions.

The first issue is to understand that Indonesia has protection laws in regard to foreigners owning property. Foreigners are NOT permitted to own freehold land/property. We are allowed to hold leases for at least 25 years and these are transferrable/sellable and extendable (at a price). When you see villas for sale, and it says lease, check how much lease is left.
In regard to 'nominee' this basically means you have to TRUST an Indonesian to hold title to your freehold property...this is risky but many, including myself with 2 properties, take this route.

Another issue is the status of your stay visa. This can me very limiting. The best is a Retirement Visa but you need to be over 55 yo. The next is probably a Social Budaya (Sosbud) This needs a sponsor from Indonesia...agents do it for a price...it is initially for 60 days but is extendable without leaving for 30 days a time up to 6 months. Then leave, return, and start again.

There is another way which basically means you buy a Ltd Co (PT PMA) but that can be pricey and complex....I'll leave this to others to explain.

Hope this has whetted your appetite...fire any questions.
 

Thumps

New Member
Mar 6, 2014
17
0
1
Davita, thankyou so much. That clears up the buying part. We will definitely only want leasehold. No, I am not married to an Indonesian. None of us, apart from the mother in law is over 55.
What's involved with getting an Indonesian to sponsor us, and what is the reason for it?
Also Davita, can I ask, I'm keen on the Sanur area, what is your opinion on living there?
 

davita

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2012
4,441
146
63
Davita, thankyou so much. That clears up the buying part. We will definitely only want leasehold. No, I am not married to an Indonesian. None of us, apart from the mother in law is over 55.
1.What's involved with getting an Indonesian to sponsor us, and what is the reason for it?
2.Also Davita, can I ask, I'm keen on the Sanur area, what is your opinion on living there?

1. The Republic of Indonesia (RI) doesn't trust foreigners so they pass the buck to someone that guarantees you will not misbehave and they will be responsible for your finances....just in case. It is NO biggy and best if you know an Indonesian prepared to be a sponsor. I haven't heard of any sponsors being approached by officials. Agents will do it...but they want money.

2. Sanur is great...we have a villa in Kerobokan but really wish I'd checked out Sanur first. It used to be the place for older expats but it has livened up considerable over the last few years. I like it because you can walk or cycle everywhere and there are dozens of good restaurants/bars without the raucus look of Kuta or the pretensions of Seminyak....personally I would only look at property on the beach side of the By-Pass...but property on the other side is considerably cheaper.
 

Thumps

New Member
Mar 6, 2014
17
0
1
Your advice is a dream come true Davita, it's fantastic to finally find someone who can answer me direct and honestly. So what are the suburbs of Sanur that you suggest. We haven't got a huge budget, but don't want something that we may have problems with either.
How would it work for visas etc if hubby will be doing FIFO from Perth to Bali?
And any advice on taking dogs into Bali? They are a huge part of our life, so would love to take them with us.
So many questions....
 

davita

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2012
4,441
146
63
Your advice is a dream come true Davita, it's fantastic to finally find someone who can answer me direct and honestly.
1. So what are the suburbs of Sanur that you suggest. We haven't got a huge budget, but don't want something that we may have problems with either.
2. How would it work for visas etc if hubby will be doing FIFO from Perth to Bali?
3. And any advice on taking dogs into Bali? They are a huge part of our life, so would love to take them with us.
4. So many questions....

1. Sanur is like a long strip...there is basically one long road (5-6K) with shops/restaurants and one big Dept/grocer store. It parallels a beach path which has about 4-5 connecting roads around 200 metres long. There are many villas/compounds strung around those small roads.
On the other side is the parallel By-Pass which connects to the Kuta/airport in the west direction and all the way around the coast to the East. Just east of Sanur....maybe up to 30k, are many new Villas for sale/lease at reasonable prices and close to the beach...the sand however turns to black from the lava as you get further away from Sanur.
2. There are many FIFO's here and it seems to work well...In this case a Visa on Arrival (VOA) for hubby suffices (cost US$25) and lasts 30 days, but can be extended for another 30 days (another $25)
3. A formidable member called Markit has a lot of info on this...hopefully he'll chime in and regale you with his wisdom.
4. Thats what forums are about Thumps...Q and A.
 
Last edited:

samsiam

Member
Feb 2, 2014
860
1
18
Davita is a star.....you get more quality info here and quicker than most other Bali forums...though there does not seem to be many of them.

As for dogs, we have looked into this ourselves and dogs are not allowed to be brought into Bali, think they were banned from import into Bali because of a rabies outbreak some time ago.....but, Asia being Asia...you can do it if you want to, but it seems costly and risky for the animals.

Basically it involves bringing them in via Jakarta, still with all the required documentation and health certificates, and then you contract a company to transport them through Java to the east coast and then by boat across to Bali.

However, I have read several reports of these companies transporting dogs in less than ideal ways and dogs arriving dead from lack of care.

I would presume you might be able to arrange transport and bring them down yourself, that is what we are looking to do with our dog if we decide to bring her.

However again....will there be any chance to have to return to Oz and if yes, the return trip of the dogs to Oz will be exorbitant and break many piggy banks as well as the quarantine periods away from family etc.
 

Thumps

New Member
Mar 6, 2014
17
0
1
I couldn't imagine going without our dogs, that would break my heart. Thanks for the info samsian.

Next question, when we do finally decide on a Villa to leasehold, does the whole amount need to be paid upfront? Or can you just pay like a deposit?
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
8,821
664
113
Karangasem, Bali
I was referred to this forum from trip advisor. So here goes.... We, meaning my family of 2 adults and 2 kids ages 5 and 15, are very seriously wanting to purchase a Villa (hopefully in Sanur area), and move to Bali from Australia.

Why oh why do idiotic people again and again want to expose their beloved children to a life of poverty and misery that will likely result from kidnapping them from a decent educational system into one that is below sub-standard in Bali purely for their own silly dreams of "Bali"? When the 15 year old graduates he will possibly be able to work, if he marries a local that is, in Indonesia but the rest of the modern world will only be available online or on TV cause he won't have any qualifications that are accepted - think window washer.
Now the 5 year old will most likely turn into beach trash that can't speak any known language other than Balinese - not even Indonesian, just Balinese.


Mother-in-law will probably join us too.
I am after some guidance/advice, as I'm not sure of the process etc, of moving to Bali. What is the first step? I've been looking at 4 bedroom villas, which are very reasonably priced.

Look forward to a lot of information as, I want to get it right for our family. Then for the love of your children stay in OZ!!!
Thankyou

Bali is wonderful for addled old deviants like me and Davita but not the place for a young family - there are masses of hidden costs that you haven't even thought about and I promise you after maximally one year you will be headed back to Oz with huge losses and a 24 year lease on a villa that you can't get rid of.

If you, like most, think the previous is Bull Taco then do yourselves at least the favor of first getting a long term rental here and see if you can make it work - don't burn any bridges to Oz that you will need. As the bishop said to the actress "suck it first and see".
 

davita

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2012
4,441
146
63
Next question, when we do finally decide on a Villa to leasehold, does the whole amount need to be paid upfront? Or can you just pay like a deposit?

A leasehold is just like freehold except you only get title to the lease of the land the property stands...in theory, the actual property is yours to do with whatever. When the lease expires an extention, which should be guaranteed in the contract, should be made available but it is rare to find any price quoted....that is a contention. Normally, the full amount is paid thru' the notary, when they complete the paperwork.

I would suggest you guys rent first, maybe for up to a year...then take your time to look for your dream home. Unless you can negotiate otherwise, rent also usually needs to be paid up front annually.

The Bali property market has ballooned recently...and is very overheated in my opinion...you can see for sale/lease/rent signs all over the place. Also, this is election year in Indonesia so don't expect any changes to property rules till a new Gov't is well installed...what the direction this takes we all await to see how the politics will work out.
Although Bali is a Province of Indonesia, and has its own semi-autocratic government, it is still controlled from Jakarta's Federal Gov't.
 

Thumps

New Member
Mar 6, 2014
17
0
1
Thanks Davita, we were atually just thinking, that renting may be the way to go for the first year, for that same reason. Ok so with renting in Bali, is it much more of a straight forward process.
In Perth, Australia, we currently rent. VERY EXPENSIVE. We also have rent inspections every 3 months. Is that how it works in Bali?
 

Thumps

New Member
Mar 6, 2014
17
0
1
Markit. Not sure really how to take your reply! But I for one cannot see how a young family cannot make it work in Bali, so i guess I'll ignore the negative comments you made.
You were right on one thing, renting will probably be the way to go.
 

samsiam

Member
Feb 2, 2014
860
1
18
Bali is wonderful for addled old deviants like me and Davita but not the place for a young family - there are masses of hidden costs that you haven't even thought about and I promise you after maximally one year you will be headed back to Oz with huge losses and a 24 year lease on a villa that you can't get rid of.

If you, like most, think the previous is Bull Taco then do yourselves at least the favor of first getting a long term rental here and see if you can make it work - don't burn any bridges to Oz that you will need. As the bishop said to the actress "suck it first and see".

Seriously.....I have raised 2 kids in Asia for 12 years now...not much difference to bali with all its idiosyncrasies....there is shit happening in every country, including Oz.

When I left oz all I read about was violence in schools, drugs in schools, gangs, disrespect and poor education....so go figure.

One evening, I had the pleasure of a group of young scholars throw a brick through my car rear window...all because I got a little antsy about these kids, several of them, climbing in through my nephews rear bedroom window at midnight to camp over for the evening.

My kids speak 2 languages fluently, will speak a 3rd also in a few years time. They will have access to Universities in Oz, UK, Thailand and possibly several other countries if they wish....schooling did sweet FA for me, I remember virtually bugger all of it...yet I retired at 39yo.

I get that you are the resident grumpy old bastard, I recognise that because i can be too...but leave parents to make the decisions for the kids to them....we left a society of people telling us what to do, trying to wrap us and them up, trying to protect us with rules to protect the rules from the rules and so on... we as expats, have a little bit more ooomph and character than the lazy arse shits that stay in one spot all their life and do as they are told day in day out.....so some credit please.
 

davita

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2012
4,441
146
63
The esteemed markit and I don't usually agree but I do agree with him that, getting weepy-eyed about a life in Bali as some kind of manyana is fraught, especially when kids/dogs are involved. We have both seen people with those dreams getting shattered because of unrealistic expectations.

I've never rented long-term, only a month max, when coming for holiday/planning villa purchase. Similarly, I would suggest arriving and using a short-term holiday rent or hotel for awhile, then source locally the desired villa for annual/semi-annual rent. There should be a big difference in cost between holiday rent and annual rent.
A rental contract should also be drawn using a notary, and you may need it interpreted. Remember...all things are negotiable...I would NEVER pay asking price!

I've never heard of 3 month inspections...maybe others here who use long-term rentals could chirp-in.

Btw I know some who annually rent cheap but large property, but only use it for their 6-7 month visits...and they let it be used by friends etc. when they return to their home country (Netherlands).

Edit: I just read samsiam ^ after I posted.
I think it fair he and I should have divulged that his wife is Thai....and mine is Indonesian, although Canada is her new nationality.
 
Last edited:

Thumps

New Member
Mar 6, 2014
17
0
1
I certainly got the point as to what Markit was getting at, and maybe there has been a lot of people who would think it's going to be like going on a long extended holiday, when in reality I know it will certainly have it's ups and downs, by its lime anywhere in the world, life is what you make it.