spicyayam

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Jan 12, 2009
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I was wondering if anyone gets the feeling Indonesia might be facing some tough times ahead with regards to business outlook.

Rupiah is down, and the government seems to be doing anything they can to stop foreigners from working here. A huge amount of bad press in general about Bali/Indonesia, some of it warranted, some of it false. Too many policy back flips by the government has got to be taking its toll for businesses looking to invest here.

Instead of doing something about corruption, there seems to be a worrying trend to punish the people reporting it.

Or maybe it is just the way it has been and always will

Articles like this for example: Ten Office Boys Per Foreigner? Indonesia Explains Labor Law - Bloomberg Business
 
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davita

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Mar 13, 2012
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Wouldn't worry too much Spicy. The way Putin, on his 63rd birthday, is flexing his new-found 'hockey' muscle and, if Trump becomes USA President, WW3 will happen.... then everyone will be begging Indonesia for its resources....or invading it and colonizing all over again...:icon_wink:

Joking aside I agree with you...these are anxious times for RI.
All ASEAN countries (including RI) are obliged to form the Asean Economic Community (AEC) on 1 Jan 2016 but we never hear of any debate on the rules of engagement.
Also, just yesterday, the formation of the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) was introduced and RI said it would like to join...yet they do everything contrary to both those Institutional ideals.
Indonesia suffers from a xenophobia and national pride that cannot be justified. It takes strong leadership to emerge as a strong nation and that isn't evident at present.....too many elitists jostling for power....consequently, flip-flop policies.

It doesn't surprise me that the only Indonesian/Malay (indigenous) derivative word to make it to the Oxford dictionary is AMOK.... as in 'running amok". Gotta admit...they're world-class at that...:icon_e_surprised:!

link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_amok
 

mugwump

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After banging around here for close to 20 years and seeing a lot of the unexplainable, I have to admit to sharing similar feelings lately. It isn't paranoia, but uncertainty about the rationale behind developments that take place and wondering what will happen next. During the anarchy that occurred in the latter stages of the Suharto regime the future was uncertain, but it was obvious the reasons for the upheaval. Now it seems very vague.
 

Markit

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Sep 3, 2007
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To attain that feeling of blissful nirvana that all who live her wish for I suggest that you ignore completely what is said and concentrate on what they do.

Just to list a few of the many fails that this gov has hugely advertised and then quietly taken back or allowed to peacefully die.

1) Alcohol - it was going to be banned everywhere and we were all gonna hold hands and channel Osama in peaceful and sober happiness. Flip - only in parts of Indo where there are no tourists, flop- everywhere except Aceh? Fecked if I know and no one else does either. Fact is booze has made a triumphal reappearance behind the whited out door in every Indomaret in Bali and I've heard most other places too - with exception of those that have their trousers full of ****e or haven't been paying attention.

2) Employment, visas, etc. see 1) above
3) Could go on and on but too ****faced to care

Just relax and do what the hell you want to and keep everyone around you reasonably happy and well fed and it will go fine. I promise! 1 sack of rise costs 250k Rupes that's all it takes. IMHO
 

Billt4SF

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Aug 4, 2014
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FWIW, there are plenty of people in San Francisco that are deeply unhappy with the level of corruption and downright stupidity that we see from our city government -- not to mention the national one. Different topics, and of course a higher baseline from which to exploit their constituents, but essentially similar complaints.

I think its endemic to the human condition. World is getting smaller as well.

The big thing to me is the environmental degradation -- at which Indonesia leads the world.

Will RI be a member of the TPP?

- Bill
 

Nydave

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Jun 4, 2015
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Ri is trying hard to attract foreign investment,so they introduced some sort of regulation just a couple of weeks ago in regard to foreign companies setting up shop in Ri,but once again they attached minimum requirements,any company wishing to set up business has to invest almost $7 million,, also they have to guarantee to employ at least 1,000 workers,

Couple of weeks ago when they made it possible for foreigners to open a bank account they made it a minimum of $2,000,,and were happy to announce it by saying ,,,now even tourists can open an account,,

When I posted this members laughed at it ,sure $2,000 is a far cry from $7 million,but to many visitors who come here on holiday its a lot of money,

I was born in Ireland and as a young guy growing up the Irish government was doing everything it could to attract foreign companies to open up shop in Ireland,they offered custom built factories and 10 years free of tax to the company,,suddenly the country was full with new factories and people had no problem getting jobs,BUT as soon as the 10 years was up the majority of those companies closed up shop and moved out of Ireland,

It took the government probably about 20 years to realize the mistakes and to realize they were investing in the wrong people, eventually they began supporting Irish owned businesses and smaller businesses like family owned business,it paid off,the economy grew,unemployment dropped and everyone was doing ok,

Seems to me Ri is on the same path as Ireland was many years ago,always looking for the big foreign company,when all of the time mostly the solution is right there in front of them,their own people,,

Watched a documentary recently about Germany,sure they have big companies and corporations there too,but according to what I saw slightly more than 60% of businesses in Germany are either small types of business or family owned,,given Germanys success I think there are a lessons to be learned from them,

I feel these minimum requirements attached to everything is the wrong way to go,whats wrong in accepting say 7 different companies each investing $1 million,why does it always have to be huge amounts of money,,

Half a loaf is better than no bread at all,
 

Billt4SF

Member
Aug 4, 2014
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NY(Irish)Dave,

You are making far too much sense for any politician to listen.

- Bill
 

Markit

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Sep 3, 2007
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Don't point a finger at Germany and expect anyone else to imitate their behavior or success. German small to middle sized firms have a long history of excellence and government support all based on their superb apprenticeship schemes generating extremely high class workers and all being supported by generous government assistance and support in doing business in the rest of the world.

Indonesia is so far away from that it's not even in the same world, I'm afraid. About like the minister for tourism wanting to turn Nusa Lembogan or Penida into the new Switzerland or Jersey Island - idiocy!
 

spicyayam

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Jan 12, 2009
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Sorry spicy but I can't see that one

Try copying and pasting the headline into google and then you can read the article.

It does reflect a little what I mentioned about punishing anyone who tries to report on the problems here.

Just relax and do what the hell you want to and keep everyone around you reasonably happy and well fed and it will go fine. I promise! 1 sack of rise costs 250k Rupes that's all it takes. IMHO

I am not saying anything against living or traveling here, but more about business outlook and confidence for anyone investing here. That seems to be at a low point, especially for foreign investment.

Seems to me Ri is on the same path as Ireland was many years ago,always looking for the big foreign company,when all of the time mostly the solution is right there in front of them,their own people,,

The government might be looking for foreign companies like Ireland did, but I see no evidence of any companies who are actually shifting operations here. I am sure the government would be happy a company even lasted 10 years here.


 

davita

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Mar 13, 2012
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Sorry spicy but I can't see that one

FWIW. If you are commenting on Spicy's link ....Another interesting article: Indonesia clamps down on critics of economic policies
I clicked on it and went directly to the article.
 

Markit

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Sep 3, 2007
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I got it now too, but had to put the link into Google first. Oh well.

My comment, for what it's worth, on the events and this thread:

Think back to the first year of Obama's or Cameron's governance and you will see that, as with Joko, they flip-flopped around and really didn't get much actually done either. Added to that there's the sycophantic attitude of many of Joko's cabinet who also have no fecking idea what to do but want to appear to be really, really busy and effective - hence the idiocy with booze, apartment ownership, etc.

So far nothing of any real danger has happened, just wind. On the bright side - it can only get better now...
 

davita

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Mar 13, 2012
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Yeah, great! Prophetic, but what the feck does that actually mean?

It's like this Markit....Mugwump was not only prophetic..... he was profound.

His analogy of a boat with paddles was based on Sir Isaac Newton (1643-1727). A handsome man who said 'Law I: Every body persists in its state of being at rest or of moving uniformly straight forward, except insofar as it is compelled to change its state by force impressed.'

In the case of a boat with one oar the boat will move if paddled...however, Newton also said 'Law III: To every action there is always opposed an equal reaction: or the mutual actions of two bodies upon each other are always equal, and directed to contrary parts.'
This clearly suggests that if only one oar is used the boat will....ergo...go around in circles.:icon_e_surprised:

Mugwump identified this dilemma as analogous to the RI government performance lately....going around in circles.

He also professed an idea that if two oars were used the boat might go straight...that's profound except I added that the oarsmen would need to paddle in the same direction for this to be achieved.
Altogether now....:applause:

I realize it's late so I'll just leave the definition of a metaphor...you can look it up in the morning when you're feeling brighter....:icon_wink:

'a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable.'
 

davita

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Mar 13, 2012
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Alzheimer's is a terrible thing but on the upside you're always meeting new people...

I agree..and your comment is funny...but it was you who asked the question 'but what the feck does that actually mean?'

If you have to ask for obvious simple things to be explained 'it's a sign' and you should see a specialist...:icon_e_biggrin:
 

davita

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Mar 13, 2012
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Will RI be a member of the TPP?

- Bill

Yesterday Jakpost reported...'Indonesian Trade Minister Thomas Lembong said on Friday that the government would focus on strengthening the competitiveness of the national industry before joining the free trade pact Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP)'.

- See more at: Indonesia to focus on increasing competitiveness before joining TPP | The Jakarta Post

Today they said...'Indonesia's trade minister appealed for widespread support for the government's belated bid to join..TPP... within 2 years'.

President Widodo will meet with President Obama on Oct. 26...maybe we will get more info after that.