Foreigners and land ownership of their children

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
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Ubud, Bali
RE: In the next year or so...

Dr. Bruce, you and I have much in common being married to an Indonesian woman who is the mother of your children. You, like me, want to see the efforts of our many years of work here in Indonesia become the heritage of our children and our lands passed down to them.

You also know that as a foreigner “man” married to an Indonesian woman, your children fall under your citizenship until majority age…now 18 in Indonesia. The only way around that is for an Indonesian wife married to a foreigner to declare their offspring as “bastard” child, not “knowing” who the father is. I know one expat very well who took this approach just to avoid the kitas fees, etc, but how that turns out is many years ahead to be seen.

At that time, (age 18 ), your children, as well as mine (assuming Indonesian law does not change) will have to decide their citizenship. Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship…period. So, they (your kids) either elect to be Indonesian (mom) or whatever (dad).

The land issue here becomes very vital at this point. If either of your children, or mine, elects your (my) citizenship, then their claims to your (my) land (meaning your wife’s land) becomes as hollow as your own claim would be should your wife pass on before you.

BUT! Even if they claim Indonesian citizenship, their claim to mom’s land is not decisively clear as in fact (hypothetically) their Indonesian mom died before they reached majority age…18.

Doc, you should ask your own lawyer about this, but my lawyer, who is as good as they get, devised a lease from my wife Eri to me, wherein my sons are all co-leasees with me to Eri. As I wrote before, this lease would only become effective when and if my wife, their mom died before me. Please, nobody ask me to share a copy of this legal document as I am sworn not to do so, as it is not only a legal contract, but in the mind of my attorney, a legal brief that should not be copied by other attorneys.

Will it work? Who knows???? I damn well hope it is never put to the test of the courts. But I surely rest easier knowing that anything, and everything I could do to assure my families’ security and rights to the land Eri and I purchased and developed together has been done. Hopefully in the future some of archaic Indonesian laws concerning marriage and marriage rights will be revised.

It’s when the kids come that all of this land issue crap changes, and changes radically, especially if we want our kids to be able to call Indonesia home as we did.
 

Tommy

Member
May 11, 2005
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If i read it right.. Roy your kids are automatically American up to 18 years of age when they get to choose to continue being American or becoming Indonesian Citizens? I'm not a big fan of the "woman follow the man" or "kids follow the man"-legislations as they seem way out-of-date to me. Hasn't there been any recent progress or initiatives to change this in Jakarta?
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
4,835
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Ubud, Bali
Yes, there is some discussion going on with the MPR members in Jakarta. Malaysia changed its laws about a year or two ago, and that move seemed to spark a fuse in the asses of the MPR. I'm not holding my breath however, and I suggest no one else does either. But, in time, I think the obviously approriate changes will be made.
 

drbruce

Member
Feb 12, 2004
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singaraja, bali
cyberbali.com
Yes, Roy, I'm aware of the situation with the kids. Even though they are all Americans, my own feeling (and that of their mother and the kids themselves - well all of them except Meredith who is six) is that they are Indonesians. None of the kids have even been to America. I know several people who took the "bastard" gambit, but , as you say, only time will tell. After years of paying for the kitas, my wife tried to convince me to take that route with Meredith, but I look at the American citizenship route as insurance, as if I die before the kids grow up, they are entitled to Social Security benefits. That would allow their mother to raise them comfortably enough. That alone takes some of the pain off all of the money that I've given the Indonesian government over the years.

I keep meaning to get around to the specifics of Mercedes (the eldest) chosing Indonesian citizenship at 18 with Lusi over at Bali Ide, but I never seem to get to Bali. I'm planning on dealing with this next month when the international school closes down for a month.

As I mentioned before, I was hopeful about some legal changes for the kids of mixed-marriages, but recent suggestions from the Supreme Court and other places, i.e. the 500 million bride payment, have seemed discouraging. Your solution sounds interesting and something that Su and I will have to discuss.

Thanks for the information, Roy.

By the way, very impressive house photos.
 

Roy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2002
4,835
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36
Ubud, Bali
Yes, the social security survival benefits issue is a very important consideration to keep in mind. As you know, (in the event of your untimely passing), your spouse would not be eligible for more than a modest single sum death benefit payout. In order for her to receive monthly benefits, she would had to have lived in the US for at least five years. These five years need not be on a contiguous basis, but the number of months of residency in the US would have to add up to at least five years.

For your children under age 18, the monthly benefit can be rather substantial (especially considering the lower cost of living here) depending on how many years and at what level you contributed to SS during your working years (and paying the SS tax).

So long as your children have a US issued birth certificate and an SS number of their own (which can be applied for at any time), and are under age 18, they would qualify for monthly survival benefits under your SS account.

I went through all of this some three years ago when my “brother” Matt passed away from pancreatic cancer. His wife was Balinese and they had a son and a daughter. Matt’s widow lives very comfortably from the monthly benefits (some $1,500.00 per child) that she receives. Wisely and through strong insistence, she maintains a trustee in the US which allows her to keep these funds out of the hands of her large and extended family. You know how that can go.

Another point of importance is to have a last will and testament fully executed and “certified” by the US Consulate Office, here in Bali, or wherever. This document, containing the seal of the US Consular office, and duly witnessed by the US Consul is at least helpful, if not essential in getting assets, including SS benefits, paid out to your survivors. In Matt’s case, we were very lucky to get this done, albeit at the very last minute while Matt lay on his death bed. To his credit, the Consular officer at that time, Dr. Andy Toth dropped everything he was doing, grabbed his secretary and the official seal to rush over to the hospital. In the meantime, I was at a nearby computer center typing and printing out his will. That is of course not the preferred manner to handle such “house keeping” responsibilities.

All these complications and legal issues sure makes important for us to “stay on our toes.” Glad you enjoyed my “folly” pics.