Expat in Indo? How?

[Buddy]

Hi everyone,

My name is Buddy and I'm new to this forum like all of you once were. I became a member a while ago with a purpose but as you can see it took me a while to make my first appearance.

I found my Canadian partner in Indonesia 8 yrs ago. I'm from the Netherlands and we've lived many happy years in various parts of Indonesia. Now we live in Toronto & both are so crazy about Indonesia that we would like to go back. Unfortunately it seems all so difficult. Finding work and not to take work out of the hands of the locals is almost impossible in Indonesia. If you are from an English spoken country, like my partner, your KITAS is waiting for you year after year throughout the many language schools. But being Dutch or from mainland Europe there are not many opportunities.

So for all of you expatriates in Indo what are your occupations? Are there working individuals other than teachers? I have a Technical background & noticed a lot of mining is going on in Kalimantan. Are there any readers who work in the mining industry? Who has heard or seen a foreigner having his own business (not in the tourist or furniture industry) & employing Indonesians? I really would like to know more about these people.

I know I'm playing a wild card and I seem a bit random but I'm curious to know where this leads to! Many thanks in advance.

 

[ronb]

Welcome the forum Buddy. I am retired which is common enough among expats, so I cannot answer your questions directly. However, of the non-retired expats I know, most have some sort of business interests, and I only know one or two who are employed - they are employed in businesses that deal with westerners (like property development companies).

 

[mimpimanis]

Sorry I can't help either. I have a business in tourism and I am married to an Indonesian so it makes things easier for me is some respects.

 

[gilbert de jong]

Hoi Buddy,

Welcome to the forum and to see you become active .
I'll just jump right to it....

If you are from an English spoken country, like my partner, your KITAS is waiting for you year after year throughout the many language schools. But being Dutch or from mainland Europe there are not many opportunities.

You being dutch would not be an issue in getting a job as a teacher here on Bali, at least that's my experience...I have been asked many times by several institutions if I wanted to teach their students English.
As far as I know there are requirements to getting a Kitas workpermit, I mean it should be a work-position which cannot be done by an Indonesian (or something like that), but there are other members who can tell you the ins & outs about that.

Are there any readers who work in the mining industry? Who has heard or seen a foreigner having his own business

Again as far as I know, there are some areas of work/investment off-limits to foreigners...mining is one of them I thought.
Ok buddy, take care and friendly greetings.....Gilbert.

 

[KaBIm]

Hi Buddy,
Welcome to the forum.

Again as far as I know, there are some areas of work/investment off-limits to foreigners...mining is one of them I thought.

Gil, I beg to differ on that statement. In 2007, Pak SBY enacted a new set of Presidential decision (#76, #77 and #111) regulating sectors of investment closed, open with conditions or simply open to foreign and domestic investment. No activities in the mining sector have a requirement of 100% of domestic capital. Some mining activities have a foreign capital ownership limit (could be anything from 49% to 95%) or are subjected to prior authorisation, but they are no mining activities closed to 100% foreign own capital investment.
Talking about areas of work, some fonctions are closed to foreigners, in all sectors. To give you an example, being a foreigner and a human ressources director is a no-no. One will have to label the function differently if one wants to get an IMTA issued. :wink:

 

[gilbert de jong]

Okidoki Kabim , like I said "as far as I know" and sometimes if not all the time :lol:, I don't know that far :wink: .
So buddy, if you want you can go do some mining on kalimantan .

 

[mimpimanis]

You being dutch would not be an issue in getting a job as a teacher here on Bali, at least that's my experience...I have been asked many times by several institutions if I wanted to teach their students English.

My freind is responsible for hiring in one of the english schools here and I can tell you they rarely consider non native speakers and with over 300 applicants for the last job she advertised she has plenty of choice from native speakers

 

[KaBIm]

Okidoki Kabim , like I said "as far as I know" and sometimes if not all the time :lol:, I don't know that far :wink:.

Let me tell you that you usually describe quite accurately what is legal or not in terms of visas from what I've read in your posts. :wink:

 

[KaBIm]

My freind is responsible for hiring in one of the english schools here and I can tell you they rarely consider non native speakers and with over 300 applicants for the last job she advertised she has plenty of choice from native speakers

I think (but it has to be confirmed) that there is a difference of treatment in between "International Schools" and "National Plus Schools". From the informations I have, from other forums I am dealing with, quite a few non native english speaker are hired by some "national plus school" while the more upmarket International schools, such as JIS in Jakarta for example, tend to disregard non native speaker to teach to their pupils.

 

[hinakos]

As far as becoming an English teaher goes....most schools do want a "native" english speaker. My gf is European and even doing the TOEFL course was harder for her being a non native, so much so we canned it. She has since been lucky and picked up other work for a european travell agency that is non english speaking, taking tourists from that group of countries all over Indonesia.
There is some question over the legality of what she does, as indo law says that only indo tour guides are allowed to work in Indo, despite the fact that NONE of them speak the language of her or any of her bordering home countries. Also she takes groups from one end of the archipeligo to the other, and tour guides in indo will only ever work in their own province, so there is a niche in the market for her here.
If you are Dutch...well thats a language that the locals sometimes have a handle on here, so no luck there.
Ive worked in the oil.gas sector in a few different spot in Indo, its possible, depending on whos the govt minister at the time.
Now its ok for oil and gas indo has become an importer and realises that they need world class technology to increase output to be able to sustain. Mining is similar, but only if you are non-hands on (this never really happens tho, when in the field its always hands on), you are to be employed in a supervisory / training role and need to display to the indo govt before embarking on employment here that you are capable of this and have done so in the past.
Forget it if you think you can come here on constuction projects as labour or such.
In mining youll need to be a geologist, mine supervisor, maintenance manger/planner, or most of the time, a rep for an equipment manufacturer, but even these jobs are being farmed out now. Companies like Caterpillar and Rolls Royce turbines have Indonesians that not only do the job in Indo, but internationally as well, so even my job prospects in the middle east and russia are in the crosshairs of company accontants now due to the cheap cost of 3rd wold labour (or developing country labour)
Best shot is your own business, but thats not really an option anywhere right now, let alone Bali.
Good luck, dont give up.

 

[tintin]

hinakos

As far as the Indonesian law is concerned, there is nothing illegal about your girlfriend taking foreign tourist groups to Indonesia. She is not a guide, she is a tour leader, which performs quite different functions in a group. She is being employed by a foreign tour company which pays her. When she arrives in a specific region of Indonesia, like for example Jakarta, there will also be a local Indonesian guide from the Indonesian ground operator who will join her group.

??? ?????

 

[hinakos]

yep correct, a tour leader. But as was discussed a while back n another forum, this was being phased out. I hope it hasnt, as it wouldnt make sense at all.
Also to be 100% legit, i guess she would need a Kitas right? Most companies are not doing this (she talks to others in this field) , they just tell the tour leader to "become" one of the tourists if questioned.
For a company to get someone a Kitas, that would mean they would have to register some kind of business here?

 

[tintin]

Hinakos,

You guys worry too much. Just think about it for a minute. When your girl friend arrives with her group at Indonesian emigration, what distinguishes her from any other member of this group? Answer: nothing. She will get a VOA as any other member of the said group. So what in the world would prompt an immigration officer to question her about her reason(s) for coming to Indonesia, more than any other member of the group?

 

[spicyayam]

You guys worry too much.

Many people don't worry about this, until they get caught. :shock: I think you really need to be careful about this. All it would take is disgruntled out of tour guide to report the "tour leader" to immigration.

Of course she could claim to just be a tour member, but I am sure she would be carrying things like guest lists and itineraries.

 

[calitobali]

English teaching jobs just being thrown at native English speakers? Where? I was under the impression it was tough to get a spot in Bali. I would, for one, love a job teaching English here. Much better than relocating to Jakarta.

 

[tintin]

spicyayam,

Everything is possible. However, if the tour leader does not reside and is not working in Indonesia for a salary paid by an Indonesian tour company, he/she is not violating the terms of a VOA (by the way, every tour member carries a tour itinerary and the list of the fellow travelers).

If he/she resides temporarily in Indonesia, he/she is most likely on another type of visa which make his/her stay in the country legal. For example, a business visa, which does not allow one to work in the country, nevertheless allows one to come to Indonesia for the purpose of meeting with Indonesian business subcontractors and/or partners (in this case, tour operators), survey old and new domestic destinations, organize itineraries, etc, activities which facilitate one's work in one's home country of employment. It's the same thing for people engaged in exporting products from Indonesia, or doing a business which involves Indonesians workers. I know for a fact that many exporters do not bother with a business visa but many also operate legally in Indonesia with it. This is exactly why the business visa was created.

 

[Buddy]

Hi everybody,
Thanks for such a warm welcome & for responding to my topic.
I found Hinakos' post very useful & agree with mimpimanis.

I think the Indonesian government has made it very clear who or who is not permitted to work in their country. Lying to an immigration officer about your reason(s) for coming to Indonesia is for each induvidual their own decision.

If I understand it correctly spicyayam is a teacher? What about Gilbert or Kabim? What are you guys up to in Indo?

 

[spicyayam]

No, not a teacher. Not sure what gave you that impression I am not even in Bali (yet) but I will be there in a couple of weeks.

 

[gilbert de jong]

Hi buddy,
I do some business development (computers), besides that I help ( not getting paid for it) several Balinese people setting up their own little businesses, anything from a little warung to helping someone setting up exports of clothes to foreign markets.
Besides that I give soccerpractice at the SPNI (Sekolah Polisi Negara Indonesia - Police-Academy) and give some fire-arms training at the TNI (Army).
Friendly greetings.........Gilbert.

 

[KaBIm]

Hi Buddy,
I am married to a lovely indonesian woman and I am the father of three marvellous kids (2 boys and one girl).
In Indonesia, I mainly invest money and give advise to my wife on how to run her company. Beside it, my professional life is spent in between Thailand and Europe where I have businesses in the trade and Import/Export sectors.
I spend a bit of my free time participating in indonesian or expat forums where I usually like to participate in threads about business or law.
I don't live in Bali, nor I intend to live there... :wink: I prefer more secluded areas where I hardly come accross bule.