Disappointed with some of the pollution

[Tim]

RE: Changing things here.

Am new to the Bali Forum and this will be my first post. I have enjoyed reading post from "all of your members" over the last few months!
My wife and I were in Bali last May and loved the short time we were able to spend there......but was disappointed with some of the pollution.
My wife is Indonesian/Dutch and even though I have been to Jakarta many times, (this was my first visit to Bali) and am aware of the pollution problems in most of Indonesia, especially in Jakarta, I didn't expect to see this problem in such a beautiful area...... I hope I'm not being too naive but is there an organization(s) that is concerned about the environmental future for Bali?
"One" of the most important factors in "bringing Bali back" would have to be in controlling pollution.

Tim

 

[Roy]

RE: Changing things here.

Tim, welcome to the forum! What specific kind of pollution are you discussing, and where in Bali did you run into it?

Air, water, and land pollution by garbage is a problem in Bali, and the extent of this problem depends largely on what area of Bali is being discussed. For example, the air quality in central Denpasar isn't great, but once in the central or highlands region, the air is wonderful, (except of course when your neighbor burns their garbage)!:evil:

Water pollution is much the same way. It depends on where you are. In Kuta, the water can be nasty, but in Amed, it can be crystal clear.

Garbage, or waste management has been an issue here for quite some time. In Gianyar, and through the efforts of Ubud Rotary, a waste management...re-cycling plant was recently opened. Gianyar regency, whilst having the most dense population as measured per square kilometer, is now one of the cleanest of the eight regencies in Bali.

 

[Tim]

RE: Changing things here.

Thanks for your reply Roy........most of the pollution was in the waterways, rivers in the south of Bali. It's good to hear that there are efforts being made, just wondered.
I can understand what you are saying about the central area and other parts of Bali. We liked Ubud very much.... maybe I'll learn the "real Bali" when I am able to spend some time there in the future.

Best Regards,
Tim

 

[Sanurian]

Welcome Tim

Pollution in Bali is nearly everywhere, unfortunately. The southern rivers you refer to originate further up-stream. No escape. I wouldn't be one of the first ones to drink water from Amed (or anywhere else on this island).

There are attempts at addressing this problem and not before time. Still got a long way to go.
Even if water looks "crystal clean", that doesn't prove it's safe to drink. Never. I'm sure you know that. Or at least, I hope so.

 

[Tim]

Hi Sanurian, thanks for the welcome and the insight..........yes, I would never drink the water either as in Jakarta or Indonesia, big mistake.
Your right, the water needs to be treated to make it safe. I'm not trying to see Bali as Hawaii, (would't want to) but with future growth in Bali and "little" or no control, this threatens everyone.
I'm sure there are some fine people that have and are working hard to protect Bali, "many are members of this forum".

Best Regards,
Tim

 

[Sanurian]

Hi Tim

...the water needs to be treated to make it safe...but with future growth in Bali and "little" or no control, this threatens everyone...

Amen to that.

There's also another "issue" that government officials need to address regarding water, and that's the quality (and safety) of bottled water. About four years ago in Yogyakarta, just out of curiosity, we had some randomly selected bottled water (various brands), tested in a laboratory. They all had internationally unacceptable levels of things like E. Coli. I still drink bottled water but I have reservations about the stated purity of it. I've either been lucky or have developed a little immunity.

It would be interesting to see a major study of bottled water and exactly what and how many beasties are actually in them. "Quality control" throughout Indonesia for food and drink items leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Roy]

Geez Phil, here you go again with another extraordinary and outrageous claim!. Bottled water with e-coli bacteria?

You specifically write that:

"About four years ago in Yogyakarta, just out of curiosity, we had some randomly selected bottled water (various brands), tested in a laboratory. "

You further write that, "they all had internationally unacceptable levels of things like E. Coli."

Amigo, in case you are sans basic medical knowledge....there is NO way you could consume water with e coli bacteria, and not get sick as hell!

You are so full of bullshit, and your suggestion that bottled water in Indoesia contains e-coli bacteria is kissingly close to criminal BS.

When you write, "about four years ago in Yogyakarta, just out of curiosity, we had some randomly selected bottled water (various brands), tested in a laboratory"...you should be very well be able to suport that claim.

I, for one, am not holding my breath as you....for certain, have gone too far! :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[Mark Wales]

Dear Roy,

My younger sis has been living in Bali for the last 20 years!
She read your quote (given below) and agrees whole-heartedly with you. Thank you for putting these arseholes straight!

Amigo, in case you are sans basic medical knowledge....there is NO way you could consume water with e coli bacteria, and not get sick as hell!

You are so full of bullshit, and your suggestion that bottled water in Indoesia contains e-coli bacteria is kissingly close to criminal BS

You now have one ardent follower!

Mark

 

[Sanurian]

Here we go again, Roy. If you truly believe bottled water is as safe as its Indonesian manufacturers claim, so be it. I don't share your confidence.

In very recent times, we've had the borax in the bakso, toxic commercial dyes being used as food colourings, high levels of mercury in seafood, and a host of other nasties in this country. I was just trying to point out that it's hard to believe the "authorities" are doing their jobs properly. I've yet to actually meet an Indonesian "health inspector". Have you?

Our little experiment in Yogya was just that. It was not a major scientific study. I would like to see such a study. A reasonably comprehensive testing of a water sample would look for:

...total coliform, fecal/e. coli, calcium, copper, iron, magnesium, manganese, potassium, sodium, alkalinity, chloride, chlorine, color, conductivity, hardness, nitrate, nitrite, odor, ph, sediment, total dissolved solids, sulfate, turbidity, arsenic, lead, ammonia, radon, 61 volatile organics compounds (including mtbe)
plus the following pesticides:
aldrin, a-bhc, b-bhc, d-bhc, g-bhc, chlordane, 4,4'-ddd, 4,4'-dde, 4,4'-ddt, dieldrin, endosulfan i, endosulfan sulfate, endrin, endrin aldehyde, heptachlor, heptachlor epoxide, methoxychlor, toxaphene...

We didn't have the time or the money to check for everything. What we did find made us more suspicious of manufacturers' claims about the purity/safety of their products.

These are some words I quote from another source:

...The bottled water industry is booming. But many of these products are simply tap water passed through conditioning filters such as charcoal, which eliminate some of the chlorine and unpleasant tastes and odors. These filters do not remove the toxins.

What about “spring” water? Brands labeled “Spring Water” legally have to be from a spring, unless the words are a brand name, or part of a brand name. Then they are just tap water. Spring water, however, is just untreated groundwater. Whatever goes into the surrounding ground ends up in the spring water. Today, spring water is no more pure than well water.

Springs also contain all kinds of organic matter and often some very toxic minerals. A test of the well known bottled Appollinaris spring water imported from West Germany, showed excessive levels of selenium and cobalt, and a level of arsenic that exceeded the EPA standards by 6000 percent. The purity of bottled water is a figment of the greedy imaginations of the folks who profit from it...

I don't believe that this opinion of yours is accurate, either:

...there is NO way you could consume water with e coli bacteria, and not get sick as hell!...

It's like this, Amigo: One bacterium, whatever it is, will not necessarily make you sick or dead. A million, billion or trillion is another story.

I'd also like to see a test of Indonesian beers, just out of curiosity. (And Jimbo - you see what I mean? It was the stillness in the wind before the hurricane begins...)

And Mark Wales sounds and looks like a complete whacko to me.

 

[Mark Wales]

Dear Sanurian,

And Mark Wales sounds and looks like a complete whacko to me

Thanks for the compliment!

Mark

 

[Roy]

Phil, if you take a minute to look carefully at the label of an Aqua brand bottle of water, you will note the term, “Halal.” I’m sure you know what that means, but for those who don’t “Halal” is very similar to “Kosher” as it relates to food or other products meant for human consumption. Both terms designate a certain high standard of purity and strict codes of production within parameters as determined by the specific relgion.

Bakso, sold on the street by transient vendors is NOT halal, and one is always “eating at their own risk.” Discussing bakso when bottled water is the topic is not appropriate...two completely different things.

I am going to concede this discussion to you as I have no choice but to agree that stringent testing of most anything on earth will reveal some quantity of some chemicals that would make us shudder, thinking that we’re taking it in our bodies. My only comment would be that I was totally unaware that the EPA...Environmental Protection Agency was involved in testing water for human consumption. I was always under the impression that this responsibility in the US was with the FDA....Food and Drug Agency (Administration).

Phil, as a final comment, it is not like you at all to comment on someone else’s looks or comments in such a derogatory manner.

In truth, when Mark first joined this forum, I was taken aback by his avatar. He has a very uncanny resemblance to one of the most highly respected priests in my area of Ubud. That doesn’t mean anything, but I wanted to comment about that.

I’ll take responsibility for setting a negative tone to this string. I apologize for that, and ask that we move on, Phil, I guess Jimbo is going to have to kiss you twice now!

 

[DCC]

If anyone is interested, I still got great seats available for the upcoming Phil "The Smasher" Sanur and "Sugar" Roy battle - so let's get ready to RUUUUMMMMBBBLLLEE!!!!

Me, I'm just curious as to why Tim was only dissapointed with some of the pollution - it all P's me off!

 

[Tim]

I'll buy the next round....................have a nice weekend!

Tim

 

[Roy]

DCC writes:

Me, I'm just curious as to why Tim was only dissapointed with some of the pollution - it all P's me off!

Great! Then get out there, and help by your action and your example in cleaning up your neighborhood. You DO live in Bali, don't you? Bellyaching about it will get you nowhere! :evil:

There are expats, and then there are expats, and without my spelling that all out, I am praying that you come to understand the difference.

 

[DCC]

FYI Roy, that was a joke that evidently went over your head.

AND, FYI, I DO!!! do something about it ...

The gang I live on is kept clean by my efforts and at cost to me - thank you very much. And I'm working to encourage my local Banjar to force builders in my hood to thoroughly clean up areas leased for worker housing then abandoned as is except for any valuables. So before you start BELLYACHING, know what your talking about - is that too much to ask?
Oh, never mind, go back to arguing with somebody else - sorry Sanur

 

[Sanurian]

Hi Roy

...if you take a minute to look carefully at the label of an Aqua brand bottle of water, you will note the term, “Halal.”

Yes, I do know what "halal" is supposed to mean. However, just because an Indonesian label says something like that does not always mean it's true (or enforced). If you refresh your memory back several years, there was a huge stink in Indonesia when it was discovered that one of the main food-enhancer (MSG) companies was selling pork-contaminated powders. The company involved promised not to do it anymore. Nevertheless, millions of Indonesian Moslems most likely felt that they were defiled at the time.

And:

...I’ll take responsibility for setting a negative tone to this string. I apologize for that, and ask that we move on, Phil, I guess Jimbo is going to have to kiss you twice now!...

By all means, Amigo - and Jimbo doesn't have to kiss me at all if he doesn't want to (if and when we ever meet in the flesh).

Marc Wales, with the scary-looking avatar, took me by surprise with his vehemence. If he looks like the big priest in your village, I meant no disrespect there. I'd probably be more worried if your priest looked like Tom Jones. Anyway, Marc seems to have a sense of humour and can obviously roll with virtual punches.

 

[Roy]

DCC, I’m delighted to learn that you know how to use a broom. I’ll try to remember that. Yup, your “joke” went way over my head...maybe as far as the used to be planet, Pluto.

Phil, I’ve already conceded this argument to you. My only suggestion would be that when discussing Mark Wales, that you at least spell his name correctly. It’s Mark with a “k” and not a “c.”

 

[Mark Wales]

Dear All,

Thanks for correcting my mis-spelt name. As the Bard once said
"What's in a name? A rose by any other name will smell just as sweet!"

Looks are sometimes deceptive. Looking like your Holy Priest
is a compliment but the similarity stops there. I have probably
to relive another lifetime before I can reach the level he has.
If you meet him, please give my respects.

Peace brothers

Mark

 

[Roy]

If you meet him, please give my respects.

I see him once, sometimes twice a week. I've already printed your avatar, small as it is, to show him tomorrow. It is uncanny, but I agree, it is only a likeness.

 

[charlie]

On the topic of E. Coli - this was in my inbox today...

Subject: Water & Wine Education

It has been scientifically proven that if we drink 1 litre of water
each day, at the end of the year we would have absorbed more than 1 kilo
of Escherichia coli (E. coli) bacteria found in faeces. In other words,
we are consuming 1 kilo of Poo. However, we do not run that risk when
drinking Wine (or rum, whiskey, beer or other liquors) because alcohol
has to go through a distillation process of boiling, filtering and
fermenting.

WATER = Poo
WINE = HEALTH
Free yourself of Poo, drink WINE!!! It is better to drink wine and
talk sh!t than to drink water and be full of sh!t.
There is no need to thank me for this valuable information, I am doing
it as a public service.