spicyayam

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Jan 12, 2009
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My wife posted this link on Facebook about a crackdown on foreigners buying property: Pemerintah Akan Alihkan Tanah Milik Orang Asing - Kompas.com

Link to English story: Government to crack down on foreign ownership of land | Latest News From Bali | The Beat Daily

This is her comments (maybe someone can do a translation for the article):

WARNING FOR FOREIGNER ..... NEED TO READ THIS ..
As the law in Indonesia that foreigner is not allowed to own a property in Indonesia, now government said will check the status of the land in Indonesia especially in bali. Government said too many foreigner own property in bali now and they will check it slowly because government want to find the truth about the status of the land.
Government said, if the land is belong to foreigner, government will take the land / property and the land / property will be belong to government later. If the foreigner merried with Indonesian people, without preup, they property might be will be belong to their wife / husband ( Indonesian people ) and their wife/ husband has the full right for the property ( means the foreigner ( the local's wife/ husband ) can not get anything if they get divorce. This is the planning of government now and they will start it without telling anyone when they will start to check the status, because the government said many foreigner has hotel, restaurant, villa, ect and government don't want foreigner know about this. Government said, this is to check the property status only and for now they don't impose sanctions to the foreigner who breaks the law ( own property in Indonesia ) but they only takes the property from the foreigner.
 
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davita

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Mar 13, 2012
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Good post Spicy and a grim reminder to all of us how this new gov't intends to behave...there are lots of signs that the intent is to raise National Pride among the populist voters.....and your wife's revelation, coupled with executions, sword rattling with the neighbors, is a classic case of diverting the clear problems facing the country with its petty squabbling.

If it were me, to achieve National Pride, I'd generate any sports to be seen on an International stage.... 'coz the 4th largest nation of 250 million people frankly have no star-quality people to admire....like sports-champions, researchers, doctors, innovators, manufacturers. entrepreneurs. The highest award I believe, but may be wrong, is Sri Mulyani as head at the World Bank....any others? Not one Indonesian appears on the list of Nobel Laureates.
Is there anything Indonesia does that can be considered for pride in any International events?

I tried your wife's translate and many others but didn't see anything new in law....it's just saying they want to apply the current law. The only individuals that might be impacted are those spouses who refrained from admitting they were married to foreigners, without a pre-nup, and bought property using their original name and KK/KTP.....and I know many. The rest may be some of those boutique hotels that may have dubious titles and dubious sources of funding.

I'm thinking a spate of divorce/marriage/pre-nup lawyers may advertise soon....to evade those money-grabbing politicos.:abnormal:
 

spicyayam

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Jan 12, 2009
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Just heard that all notaries have been invited by the minister to attend a meeting in Bandung soon to discuss land status. It seems like the government is getting serious.
 

davita

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Mar 13, 2012
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Just heard that all notaries have been invited by the minister to attend a meeting in Bandung soon to discuss land status. It seems like the government is getting serious.

I'm sure our members would appreciate if you and Mrs. spicy could keep advising of any outcome...the results may affect many expats.
I think you're on about Minister Ferry M Baldan from the RI Cabinet of Ministers....I wonder if he'll have much traction in Bali where permits for buildings etc. cannot even be controlled by the Governor...seems like local regents say it is their right.
I don't know for sure...I just follow news.
 

Markit

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Sep 3, 2007
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Just heard that all notaries have been invited by the minister to attend a meeting in Bandung soon to discuss land status. It seems like the government is getting serious.

What a golden opportunity to get them all on one boat and send them to Oz.
 

Fred2

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Oct 13, 2010
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This will be fun, the government will check what???? Tax returns to see who can afford land because the title is in the name of a Indonesian citizen (nominee)?
I can see a PMA with no opperating business but owning land may have problems
 

Markit

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Cast your minds back to the "immigration raid on villa in Seminyak" that turned out to be a stupid web clickbait that got the entire AirBnb group up and frothing at their collective mouths.

Until this comes in a respected newspaper I'm gonna hang fire. Even if it is true don't forget boys and girls THIS IS FECKING INDONESIA where nothing works and it's every man for himself. I can imagine the chaos already...
 

bakung

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May 4, 2011
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Government to crack down on foreign ownership of land | Latest News From Bali | The Beat Daily

The Minister of Spatial Planning, Ferry Mursyidan Baldan claims the national government is set to harden its stance on the illegal ownership of land by foreigners, especially in popular tourist destinations such as Bali and Lombok.

“Foreigners can not own land in Indonesia, it is clearly written in the constitution,” said Baldan.

“The only land that can be legally owned by foreigners is the home and the office of ambassadors from various countries,” added Baldan.

It is understood if the government identifies land that is owned by foreigners then that person will not be subject to any fines and consequently the land title will be switched over to the government.

We divert the certificate of ownership to the government or we first see if the person has an Indonesian wife,” said Baldan.

“We will not perform organized raids, this will be conducted in an orderly manner,” he concluded.
For all those just playing with small brown women it time to put a ring on one of the fingers of one of them ( either way you still lose ? ).
 

ronb

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Aug 14, 2007
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The minister says foreigners own land. We know that they/we can't. so who is he talking about. I think it is just a new minister seeking lime-light. I know there could be situations like foreigner buys land using a nominee, the nominee dies, nothing more happens and the foreigner stays on. Maybe he would class this as the foreigner now owning land?
 

Fred2

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Oct 13, 2010
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If the nominee dies then the title would go to next of kin, it is illegal to make a will against the law i.e. you cannot leave it to a non Indonesian citizen. If an Indonesian wife dies, western husband (next of kin) would receive everything, if there is a title to land he would have 12 months to have the title put into a different Indonesian citizen name. There is no land titles in non Indonesian citizen name, no matter what any western person say. So what will the government look for PMA companies? people that say they own villas? Indonesian citizen that have purchase land in the last 10 years, check there income & tax returns (lol) Can you imagine how many Indonesian citizen own land in Bali that is paid with bribe money talk about opening a can of worms.
 

davita

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Mar 13, 2012
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Wait for the real catch - Hak Pakai requires residence - residence implies worldwide tax liability.

Always been Indonesian Tax law....

Resident for Tax Purposes
A person is considered a tax resident when:

Resident in Indonesia
Present in Indonesia at least 183 days per 12 month period
Residing in Indonesia during a fiscal year with the intention of remaining in Indonesia.

Typical Indonesia to leave the definition relatively blank so even Lawyers/Courts Administrators/Judges can get a cut....getting a Sim A/C could be defined as intent.

Indonesia has a world-wide income tax liability. I never heard anyone without a work permit being summoned....but that may change. Used to be without an NWPW there was a 'fiskal' penalty on leaving the country....but that was axed.

Plan B:
Malaysia's MM2H 10 year visa provides that taxation is only applied to income generated from within Malaysia. Income from bank FD's are tax free for MM2H holders.
 

Markit

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Sep 3, 2007
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It is not necessarily necessary for a Indonesian woman married to a foreigner to have a pre-nup in order to own land in her name.

Some of the reasons for a pre-nup are:

To protect the western (man) financial interest from rapacious new wives.

To protect the western ownership of a piece of land against the breakup of the marriage where a westerner is not allowed to own land in his own name but buys it in his wife's name to conform to Indo legalities.

Of course an Indonesian woman can own all the land she wants in Indonesia without recourse to any pre-nup.
 

Markit

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Thanks Davita but this is another case of "where no claimant, no judge needed". I personally know of any number of Indonesian women married to westerners where the land certificates are in her name (maiden?) and no mention is ever made of the husband.

I presume that if she dies then the legal 12 month time limit comes in for the westerner to get rid of the property (however "right" that may or may not be) and if he snuffs it then the property belongs to the wife - as it always did.

There are prenups to regulate the ownership in case of a breakup/divorce but ownership is as above. Rightly or wrongly - when nobody complains then nobody needs a judge of the rectitude.
 

davita

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Mar 13, 2012
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@#18
I know a few myself and just wondered if those were the people the minister was referring as, otherwise, I don't get his point.
I also know of a case where the wife did die and he (A Scot living in Hong Kong) transferred the property (in Bandung) to his sister-in-law....the government was going to take it as he had let the 1 year rule expire.
 

Mark

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Apr 19, 2004
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It is not necessarily necessary for a Indonesian woman married to a foreigner to have a pre-nup in order to own land in her name.

It would be good if you can explain this one. My understanding is that the agricultural law says that only Indonesians can own land and the community property laws say that all marital assets are 50/50 absent a pre-nup (in which the foreign spouse gives up his marital rights to the wife's assets). Given the conflict, the Indonesian lawyers and notaries I have spoken with say that the woman loses her right to own land if married to a bule, as the marital estate cannot include land in Indonesia. Of course, if you are talking about a woman who keeps her KTP single or is married outside of Indonesia and does not register the marriage locally (which would make any kids consider 'out of wedlock' in the eyes of the indo government), then I understand. However, if the marriage is registered in Indonesia, there could be title issues if and when she tried to sell the land.
 

Mark

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Apr 19, 2004
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It's ok, no need to respond as I understand that this thread has been effectively carried on in the 'Spouse KITAS, how to' thread. If ever there was a bigger bunch of crafty jailhouse lawyers in the world, I'll be damned... :icon_confused: In the event of a dispute at the level of the constitutional court however, my money is on the ruling that only Indonesians can own land and that only a pre-nup is effective to preserve this right when a marriage to a foreigner occurs...
 

davita

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Mar 13, 2012
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@#20 ^

Mark....That is exactly how I also understand the situation.
I know a number of Indonesian spouses who have done what you describe. They married, but still used their maiden KTP to purchase land, without declaring they were married to a foreigner.
I would be very worried in that situation.....if this Minister has his way.

With regard to the nominee situation that the Minister also mentioned there is a problem if the nominee wishes to relieve the foreigner of the property.

The WNI nominee, for legal purpose, IS the owner of 'Tanda Bukti Hak' deeds regarding Hak Milik title. The 'Akta Pernyataan/Akta Juel Beli' deed statements/deed of sale that notaries draw up never give title, even in a circumvent fashion, to a foreigner...that's only what people want to believe. A contract can never be legally higher than the Law; especially one written into the Constitution.

If the nominee doesn't live up to the expectations of the 'contract' then the contractee may have a legal case for compensation ....good luck there.