Covid 19 and No vaccine movement

Mangosalad

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Jun 23, 2020
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I am wondering how big is conspiracy theory on covid 19 in Bali. There seems to be a pretty strong belief within wellness community that covid 19 is hoax and our immune system can fight the flu without any vaccine. They also believe hate both Fauci and Bill Gates.
 

spicyayam

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Jan 12, 2009
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Probably many expats in Ubud. I doubt it in the local population, but perhaps many people don't the threat seriously.
 

JackStraw

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Mar 14, 2017
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I am wondering how big is conspiracy theory on covid 19 in Bali. There seems to be a pretty strong belief within wellness community that covid 19 is hoax and our immune system can fight the flu without any vaccine. They also believe hate both Fauci and Bill Gates.


I think both Fauci and Bill Gates are full of shit. I also think COVID-19 is a real thing and people are dying from it. We should take it seriously but how seriously is where I tend to disagree with most people.

When comparing the statistics with regular influenza and past pandemics like The Swine Flu, I think the global reaction over Covid is absolutely absurd and in my ever so humble opinion, I believe a few choice key leaders are trying to use this opportunity to get a certain, unpopular president out of office and usher in a new generation of "Big Government" supporters favoring socialist policies.

As for the vaccine, yes a strong immune system can absolutely fight the flu without a vaccine. That much is known already. I am not a doctor by any means but from what I have read from people that are qualified to talk on the subject, viruses in this family tend to work their way throughout the population and then disappear completely without the need for a vaccine. Frankly, I'm staying far away from one especially if it's from China or backed by Bill Gates but that's just me.
 

tel522

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Oct 30, 2015
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I wil be first in line for a vaccine from a respectable western company , definitely not from one of the "dodgy companies" in asia.

One thing I dont wanna do is end up in one of the scary medical centers of excellence around here ,its a one way ticket for many unfortunately.
 
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harryopal

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May 5, 2016
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I wil be first in line for a vaccine from a respectable western company , definitely not from one of the "dodgy companies" in asia.

One thing I dont wanna do is end up in one of the scary medical centers of excellence around here ,its a one way ticket for many unfortunately.
A western company developing a successful vaccine might well turn to Asia for mass production to lower costs and increase profits. Yours is a legitimate concern but Asian production for cheaper costs to the developer will most probably be the deciding factor. I still am mindful of the dodgy pharmaceutical products made in China but with the meltdown of relations with the West perhaps Chinese vaccines are less likely. How do you feel about Indian production as they are otherwise the biggest mass producer of vaccines?

There are already well established practices of fake medications. Great opportunities for fake vaccines as there will be such a rush and demand once a vaccine is "proven." Personally I will not voluntarily get a vaccine.
 

tel522

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Oct 30, 2015
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Ya , agree maybe they will license local production but at least it will be up to western standards , especially for pharma .
 

Mangosalad

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Jun 23, 2020
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I think both Fauci and Bill Gates are full of shit. I also think COVID-19 is a real thing and people are dying from it. We should take it seriously but how seriously is where I tend to disagree with most people.

When comparing the statistics with regular influenza and past pandemics like The Swine Flu, I think the global reaction over Covid is absolutely absurd and in my ever so humble opinion, I believe a few choice key leaders are trying to use this opportunity to get a certain, unpopular president out of office and usher in a new generation of "Big Government" supporters favoring socialist policies.

As for the vaccine, yes a strong immune system can absolutely fight the flu without a vaccine. That much is known already. I am not a doctor by any means but from what I have read from people that are qualified to talk on the subject, viruses in this family tend to work their way throughout the population and then disappear completely without the need for a vaccine. Frankly, I'm staying far away from one especially if it's from China or backed by Bill Gates but that's just me.

As for the immune system can fight the flu, many wellness junkies including the famous chef Pete Evans deny that Covid exist. They think all directives coming from the government including mandatory face covering is taking away their freedom. Mind you this Pete Evans guy promote a device called Biocharger that can also heal you from the novel flu.

I don't have any problem with their aversion to vaccine but they seem to go against some random stuff. According to them, 5G towers are harmful, mainstream media is evil and big pharma companies are bad. They love David Icke and think Trump as male equivalent of Joan of Arc in our modern times. If you try to argue with them then you will be called brainwashed sheep.
 
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Markit

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The biggest victim in this whole affair seems to be that all of our "Emperors are Naked". There used to be a choice of good, reliable sources of excellent, balanced and believable information - not any more!

IMO that's why all the contributors in this thread sound like they should be wearing aluminum hats - and it's not your fault, there are so many "opinions", "specialists", "experts" and "influencers" (my favorite) that nobody knows who to believe or trust. I'm relying on good old common sense and "spidey sense" to get through this - oh, and lashings of Bintang.
 

Metter

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Oct 8, 2017
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IMO that's why all the contributors in this thread sound like they should be wearing aluminum hats - and it's not your fault, there are so many "opinions", "specialists", "experts" and "influencers" (my favorite) that nobody knows who to believe or trust. I'm relying on good old common sense and "spidey sense" to get through this - oh, and lashings of Bintang.

LOL, I am a mental health nurse and have only seen a aluminium foil hat once. I agree with Markit that far too many differences of opinions - probably because there is still so much not know. Not sure if Bintang stops Covid bt hey, it's as good as any other cure right now.
 

JackStraw

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Mar 14, 2017
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As for the immune system can fight the flu, many wellness junkies including the famous chef Pete Evans deny that Covid exist. They think all directives coming from the government including mandatory face covering is taking away their freedom. Mind you this Pete Evans guy promote a device called Biocharger that can also heal you from the novel flu.

I don't have any problem with their aversion to vaccine but they seem to go against some random stuff. According to them, 5G towers are harmful, mainstream media is evil and big pharma companies are bad. They love David Icke and think Trump as male equivalent of Joan of Arc in our modern times. If you try to argue with them then you will be called brainwashed sheep.


Yes, conspiracy theories is a dark hole to go down. However, the opposite is just as dangerous. We shouldn't just take everything for face value just because the talking head on the news told us to. I don't really buy a lot of the theories you mentioned in your post but I am a free thinker and I think we should all do our own research on these topics and then make the decision for ourselves. That is the most logical conclusion in my opinion.

Take for example the media. Why do they say the media is evil? Well "evil" may not be the right word but "bias" certainly is, especially when it come to American media, and here is why.

In 2014, an Indiana University survey found that only 7 percent of journalists identified as Republicans while 28 percent identified as Democrats. In 2002, the same study found that 18 percent of journalists identified as Republicans and 36 percent said that they were Democrats. In just more than a decade, a two to one Democratic Party advantage had grown into a four to one discrepancy. Furthermore, A study conducted by the Center for Public Integrity during the 2016 election revealed that more than 96 percent of political donations from journalists went to the Hillary Clinton campaign.

Is all media evil? Of course not but it's a fact that the large majority has a liberal bias and that is fucked up no matter which way you cut it. Now, let's break down why Big Pharma is bad.

Pharmaceutical companies spend more money on marketing drugs than research and development. Johnson & Johnson for example recently spent $17.5 billion on marketing and only $8.2 billion on research and development. Similarly Pfizer spent $11.4 billion on marketing and only $6.6 billion on research and development.

Now for my friends who don't live in America, they all think it's absurd there are drug advertisements to begin with. America is one of the only countries that spend that much money on prescription drug advertisements. Drugs that are often times, incredibly addictive. It's no wonder there is a massive drug crisis in America right now. I can mention 5 people of the top of my head who have overdosed on Oxys or are addicted to Xanax back in America. If you don't think Big Pharma is evil and putting money before healthy, then I'd love to hear your definition of evil.

I think you get my point. yes, a lot of these whacko conspiracy theorists do lean a bit too much into the rabbit hole but instead of casting them aside, let's look into why they have these thoughts and see where they come from instead of just writing them off as "lunatics" like CNN told you to do.
 

JohnnyCool

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Jan 10, 2009
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A “cure” for any virus?
This one requires no testing ever again, no vaccine, no further propaganda or conspiracy agendas necessary, masks, social distancing, contact tracing (with some limits*), border lock-downs, sanitizers, temperature checks,
toilet paper hoarding, and basically “free”…

Got your attention? Can’t think of what it is?
It’s called ΣµD-∞
Give up?
Indonesian: Kematian
English: Death

*
All those involved in collecting, transporting, conducting autopsies, grave diggers/crematorium staff should probably be attired in proper, effective, personal protection clothing at all times, while dealing with the dead body.
Unless they want to carry the corpse’s virus back home.

On a more “serious” note, I do wonder if there have been any studies looking at transmission rates from the recently deceased to corpse handlers? And for how long (and even if), they should self-isolate for 14 or 41 days?

One issue that does bother me is what to expect after this particular current pandemic does it's dirty work.
A possible world economic disaster?
On top (or underneath) what ever we stress about now, Mother or Father Nature is doing its "thing".
Doesn't give a shit about "being saved".
This might be bullshit on my part but I've always believed that in any "game", Nature always plays last bat, skates the fastest...

If you're paranoid, it doesn't mean that you're not being "followed".
If you stay in "front", you'll have to watch your back (even become more paranoid).

It is my belief that we are all in the midst of a NME (New Mass Extinction). They've happened before and there's really nothing we can do about it now.

No more from me now. Think I'll reach for a whiskey or two and find a venue where I can get steamed with arak.

;)
 

JohnnyCool

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Dude? Not sure what you've been smoking but I want some too.
Don't you live in an East Bali jungle estate? Maybe one of your "little brown girls/women" could plant something?
These days here I get "stoned" from legal stuff. Bad enough. Haven't had "shrooms" in years.
I haven't tried the new legal "arak steam cleaning" yet.
Haven't even tried snorting arak (meh).

How did that old song about a whiskey drinking duck go? Swim to the bottom and never come up?
I forget.
Wonder if Balinese ducks drink arak?

:rolleyes:
 

JohnnyCool

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I hope you are wrong but "if" the vaccines don't work and "if" you can catch the virus more than once and "if" it gets worse the more you catch it then I think it may be mass extinction event. The 3 "ifs" needed are all in the realms of possibility.
The historical "mass extinction events" had nothing to do with "vaccines".
Dinosaurs at one time.
Cockroaches are still here. An admirable 400 million years so far.
Longer than us mere humans.
 

mugwump

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There is no doubt that the Easter Bunny is actually a squirrel with a bobbed tail, and those eggs are actually nuts covered with plastic shaped ovoids!
The historical "mass extinction events" had nothing to do with "vaccines".
Dinosaurs at one time.
Cockroaches are still here. An admirable 400 million years so far.
Longer than us mere humans.
Gee, didn't realize until today that mass extinctions were historical! Find it hysterical!
 

JohnnyCool

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...Gee, didn't realize until today that mass extinctions were historical! Find it hysterical!
The term "mass extinction" is possibly misleading. "Massive extinction" is clearer.
It's not that everything living on the planet was wiped out. It was a major "Dying Event".
The last "big"one was about 66 million years ago (no humans yet).
Past causes included asteroid impacts, volcanic activity, climate changes, etc.

The "last" one (Quaternary Extinction Event) , happened between 50,000-10,000 tears ago.
Some of the big wildlife that perished might have been from humans over-hunting.
We know about ten past major events from geological records. It's unlikely that there won't be another one, or we're in the waiting period now.
That's what I call the New Mass Extinction..

Hell. Scientists even have name for it.
Take your pick:

Holocene Extinction
Anthropocene Extinction

And this time, humans do have something to do with it.

Hysterical indeed.
:D
 

Markit

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Don't you live in an East Bali jungle estate? Maybe one of your "little brown girls/women" could plant something?
:rolleyes:

Bit late in the year for them (cold) but find yourself a pile or 2 of cowshit on a nice warm morning and you will find plenty of shrooms - the locals all smile knowingly when they see me hanging around the cow poop o_O

Can't even stand the smell of arak unfortunately but Glen Morangy is a drop from the Gods and when the airlines are flying again I will indulge inshallah.
 
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JackStraw

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Bit late in the year for them (cold) but find yourself a pile or 2 of cowshit on a nice warm morning and you will find plenty of shrooms - the locals all smile knowingly when they see me hanging around the cow poop o_O

Can't even stand the smell of arak unfortunately but Glen Morangy is a drop from the Gods and when the airlines are flying again I will indulge inshallah.

When's the season typically start for that? Asking for a friend of a friend's friend ;)
 

PERtoDPS

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This is pretty much what life in Australia has also descended into (no for once I'm not drunk posting). Enjoy all your indulgences only live once right? Moved pretty far off topic in this thread indeed!