Building costs - access lane

[drewbkk]

Hi - I'm building in Ubud and am a newbie to building and a definitely a newbie to building in Bali. I have an architect and a building contractor in mind, I'm still in the design stage but step one will be to build an access road.
The access road is 40mx3m and I've been quoted 70M IDR, with the only breakdown provided :

River stone foundation
Compacted Limestone
Stamper to Compacted Limestone
Concrete Decker
( concrete cover above a small river roadside )

Does this sound reasonable in other's experience?

Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions! Drew

 

[Markit]

Building roads here is fraught with danger. Access is an absolute bitch to get involved with and more people have real problems through that than almost anything else associated with building. You are a newbie by your own admission and therefore I would suggest that you be very, very careful.

Unless you own outright the land the road will be on there is an entire list of precautions you should take before you even consider buying the land the road should lead to.

I've just sat and thought of all the things you should do before building and decided I didn't want to spend the next 2 hours writing. Come talk to me if you really want to know (Amlapura/Karangasem) or look back here in the stacks.

My advise is DON'T DO IT. See that didn't take 2 hours.

 

[spicyayam]

Do you own the land or is it public access?

 

[drewbkk]

Building roads here is fraught with danger. Access is an absolute bitch to get involved with and more people have real problems through that than almost anything else associated with building. You are a newbie by your own admission and therefore I would suggest that you be very, very careful.

Unless you own outright the land the road will be on there is an entire list of precautions you should take before you even consider buying the land the road should lead to.

I've just sat and thought of all the things you should do before building and decided I didn't want to spend the next 2 hours writing. Come talk to me if you really want to know (Amlapura/Karangasem) or look back here in the stacks.

My advise is DON'T DO IT. See that didn't take 2 hours.

Hi Markit,
Thanks - I'll take a look through the old threads. But as for not doing it - it's too late

I was warned that there are all sorts of pitfalls but I thought I'd covered them off:
I've leased (30 years) 10 are of land of a 22 are plot owned under one land certificate. The 22 are plot is on a main road but my part of that plot is the area farthest away from the main road - so the access I'm building is through that larger plot. IE the access road is on the same land certificate as my land. My lease contract includes a commitment by the owners of the larger plot of which it is a part to provide the access (ie the land on which the access road is build) for the life of the lease, although I need to build and maintain that access road, and the position and dimensions of the access are included in the contract.
Note - the other 12 Are (minus the access road land) is also available for rent.
I have the contract prepared by a Notary who was recommended to me and reviewed by a Balinese architect and a Balinese builder who were both also concerned but think the arrangement is safe after going through all the paperwork.

Does the above still sound dangerous? If so I want to understand and mitigate it up-front before committing any further money to it so appreciate your thoughts!

 

[Markit]

Ok, as they say in Texas saloons "you've started drinking out of the spittoon so now you're gonna have to finish it".

The problems you gonna have (maybe) is with the owner of the rest 12 are and his guarantee of access. That can change at any time and it bodes ill that it's still for lease - what happens if the new "owner" has a problem with you? The real owner lives somewhere else or is possibly related to new owner, etc.

Take your present owner and a local that represents your interests (nominee, wifes brother, lawyer (if you must), Balinese friend) and make an appointment to see your Kapala Desa (Mayor). Sit down with him and talk through the entire deal and get him to write up a contract/agreement with him as "overlord" and get everyone to sign it.

With that your owner will be slightly less willing to **** on the deal but you may have to "dust" the Kepala Desa a little... welcome to Bali.

 

[drewbkk]

Hi Markit,

Nice metaphor!

Thanks - I'll certainly take your advice and do that, I've arranged to meet with the Kepala Desa soon anyway.

Any view on the price of the access at 70M?

 

[Markit]

If that's only the building materials costs I can't help you - they fluctuate around the island and according to the daytime.

I would say that you could do it cheaper if you did it yourself and used the local labor but that presumes you know the locals and have the time to do all the acquisition of sand/stone/etc.

If it's just a road to your place why isn't dirt good enough? That's free - or just put down some "coral" small crushed stone. If you don't need a motorway why pay for one?

 

[DenpasarHouse]

Since this is a lease arrangement and all the lots are on the same title, it seems odd to me that the land the access road is on isn't included in your lease. I might be wrong, but the commitment to allow access is usually undertaken for title/ownership situations.

If it was me, and I answered an ad for leasing 12 Are and when I checked it actually turned out to be 12 Are minus your access road, I wouldn't consider that I was leasing 12 Are at all. So why didn't they just include it in your initial lease?

Is there any chance you can get a lease agreement for the land the access road is on? Personally, I couldn't sleep well under your lease conditions. It's like a Balinese Kris of Damocles hanging over your head.

This issue isn't whether you've covered yourself legally in your lease contract, the issue is enforcement. If you have an issue with your neighbour, especially if they're a local, who's going enforce your right to access? Even if you won any dispute, you would've created a lot of bad blood and it would've been such an ordeal that continuing to live there would be untenable.

In terms of building a road, this is what I would do if you want a road cheaply done. It'd probably have to be on flat land though.

I preface this with the disclaimer that I'm not a real road Doctor.

Hire 2 local labourers, you should probably pay them about rp150.000 per day. They'd usually get way less than this, but you're only going to need them for a few days.
Find you local building supplies shop and take your labourers with you, order 200 Batako bricks, a small truck load of sand and however many bags of cement the labourers think is appropriate.
Create a border for your road that's at least 10cm high.
Level out the land between the two borders.
The volume of gravel you need is 40 x 3 x 0.10 = 12m3 (i.e. a 10cm thick covering of gravel)
I wouldn't bother using a stamper to compact the ground, by the time the dry season is over it naturally should've compacted sufficiently. Anyway, you just add more Batu Koral if there's a sunken patch.
Order a large truck load of Batu Koral Pecah Satu Dua gravel. Should be about 8m3 for about rp1 million, if you can order a half truck load, do so, if not, make up the rest by ordering 4 more small truck loads.

Bill Of Materials guesstimate
4 days x 2 Labourers @rp150.000 per day = rp.1.200.000
Tools, Shovels, Crowbar, pitchfork = ~ rp200.0000
1 x Small truckload of sand for making concrete = ~ rp.250.000
5 x bags of cement = ~ rp.225.000
200 x Batako Bricks = ~ rp.400.000
1 x 8m3 Truck of gravel = ~rp.1.000.000
4 x 1m3 small Truck loads = ~rp.800.000

Total cost = ~ rp.4.075.000

Again, this would only work on flat land.

Now admittedly, the road isn't going to look too flash after you've finished building whatever you end up building. But neither is your rp70.000.000 road. You'll also be a lot less bitter about having to pay a second time round to build the same road.

 

[spicyayam]

I would suggest getting a lawyer to check your agreements before you start building. Would you ask a lawyer to check the architectural drawings of your house?

It's amazing how land problems only show up once you have finished all of your construction.

 

[spicyayam]

I saw a picture on Facebook of someone blocking the road access to Lippo Mall. Someone made a comment they were paying 30 million per month for access. Unfortunately I can't remember which group it was posted in, but I think it is a good reminder to make sure it all gets sorted out before you start doing any kind of development.

 

[Markit]

The local government have contracted out billions to build a seawall down my way now and this means lots of trucks day and night. My old Balinese neighbour rice farmer, with no shorts with a full arse in them and no tshirt he didn't get from a past election, farms water spinach on a plot (20 x 20 meter) adjoining the road next to my house. He came storming out of his shed (his house is in the village) 2 days ago and swore he (alone) would close the road, which he does not own, to construction traffic if they didn't do something about all the dust that was landing on his fecking water spinach. Now the contractors have hired a water pump and 2 guys from the village to do nothing but keep the road wet and the dust down. Bear in mind these are all Balinese - what do you think if one of them wanted to block your villa access?

 

[ferdie]

It depends on the thickness of the foundation and the asphalt layers, because that will determine the amount of materials needed.
Is it flat or they are uneven with various depth?
Is it dried already or still wet?
If the land is dried already and the foundation is not that deep, 70 million can be renegotiate into 50 in my opinion.
Ask them to give you a more detailed plan and volume, even if you don't want to negotiate the price, you need the details to make sure you are getting the right spec for the road.

First thing first, check who owns the road that you try to connect the land with, if its a public road you don't have to pay anything for usage, if not,someone will come at any given day and will force you to pay for using the road because they said they were the one who build the road :icon_e_surprised:
Make sure the certificate clearly draws the road connected directly the land to the road.

FYI: You could add a clause in the agreement saying if you built the access road, anyone who wants to use them have to pay compensation to you.

Which area in Ubud are you? some area are crazy and other areas are more reasonable
I'm in ubud too, so I might be able to share my experience if its the same area

 

[mugwump]

This is being posted by someone that has lost access after a number of years because the notaris didn't do a responsible job.
!. Be certain to have all individual pages of your documents providing anything in exchange for your money(lease terms, access, etc.) bearing the notaris signature and a government stamp. Without it you are SOL when contest time arrives (and it will). You don't need each page done this way, just the end page of the subject covered.
2. Have the access area as well as your leased property surveyed in order that it is specifically identified. This also needs the stamp and signature as above.
Good Luck! It can be done!

 

[SusanSydney]

Hi Drew,

Just wondering how you are going - did you build the road? Are you still planning to build on this block? Would love an update as I am hoping to build myself eventually!