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Bamboo is the Future of Easy Ownership in Bali

Discussion in 'Owning Property in Bali' started by Markit, Aug 14, 2016.

  1. Markit

    Markit Well-Known Member

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    When(not if) I build again here in Bali it will look like this:

    Exploring Bali's enchanting bamboo village - Images

    I will lease some land for 30 years, include the option and price of the re-lease for a further 30 years and the following 20 in with the contract. Have it notarized, translated and framed in gold to hang on my fridge (big-assed fridge with ice water dispenser).

    Since it won't be a permanent construction I will need NO IMB.

    I will build on land with trees adjoining a rice terrace/paddy (not on or in!!!) close to the ocean with a Hardy's store in reach but no where near the south of the island.

    If there's a rive close, even better.

    Indihome connection is a must!

    There will be a staff house with 4 ensuite rooms to cater to my all female staff each with its own outside door to ease entry and exist without disturbing the others.

    I hope to die here. NOT SOON!
     
  2. Steve Rossell

    Steve Rossell Member

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    Bamboo is not considered as a permanent building structure (as yet) as long as it is used as the main frame for the said structure. Go for it.
     
  3. YPDN

    YPDN Member

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    Not a silly idea at all

    This is making more sense each time I think about it. Become part of the Bambu Brigade. It all sounds deliciously desirable.
    I recall seeing a trendy Sekolah building in Bali made from bambu.
    The land can be cheap as chips too. Having a handy Hardy's doesn't call out priority to me. But good road access does. Good internet and TV? A real nice to have but it's not mandatory. Mains power is though, to run the fridge/freezers for the food supplies. Cooking - use LPG, and possibly make a slow cooker that is entirely sun-powered. Solar panels for powering lighting. Make a washing machine that runs on pulleys to shift the tub around - need to address that initial power grab issue that all clothes washers have, somehow.

    A major caveat would be the strength of the building during Heavy Winds. (The world-wide-weather is still changing) But, a good architect could merge the design in, using triple bracing. And I'd want that.
    Bambu rots when just put in/on the ground or even on concrete. I have used it to prop tree branches (palms and pohon jeruk Bali, or example) for several years now. But there must be procedures that address that major issue.
    Imagine that. You build a wonderfully arty, truly Balinese house only to have white-anted yourself from the outset. Duh!

    Many research required ahead of this type of proyek. But it has it's merit in spades.
    Coconut floor boards. Plunker fans also operating on pulleys.
    I love this idea. It is serious gadgetry.

    Mosquito Coast 2 anyone?
     
  4. Markit

    Markit Well-Known Member

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    My neighbor brings all his bamboo in from somewhere in Java pre-treated with borax. For the more adventurous you take 4 used oil drums, cut them in half lenght-wise, weld the ends together to make a long trough (remove the middle bits, nat) add a 1 : 4 borax solution and boil your stems in it for about 4 hours. Then dry and done. These will last a whole lot longer that you or I will.

    As I said bamboo has at least twice the tensile strength of the same weight of steel - anyone ever seen the multi-story bamboo scaffolding in most of Asia?

    For the Slow Cooker just use your rice maker on low setting.

    For those that can't get enough here's another taste - slightly twee but she's young, very https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK_UjBmHqQw
     
    #4 Markit, Aug 15, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2016
  5. DenpasarHouse

    DenpasarHouse Member

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    It's all a bit pollyannaish.

    What happens if you can't get the same workmen and architects who worked with the green school people? Even if you could, how much would they cost?

    Is your borax supplier going to diddle you on the quality and concentration of the borax? Are your workmen going to get the concentration right with every batch?

    What happens if your workmen mix up the piles of treated and untreated bamboo?

    I'm guessing those guys have access to highly trained and meticulous structural engineers. Are you going to use them too? How much would that cost?

    Even though you might be safe from termites, it's going to be heaven for wasps and geckos. Will you be able to stop rats getting in and crawling all over the place? Even if there are no gaps, couldn't they just chew their way in?

    How exactly do you get stains and scratches out of a bamboo floor?


    That said, if you're already retired, and you don't care about reselling it in the future, it'd be a fun project.
     
  6. YPDN

    YPDN Member

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    Thanks. Elora Hardy on TED. Her Dad built Dream School. They have probably written the book on all this.
     
  7. YPDN

    YPDN Member

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    DPH: If interested, best to do a tour of as many of the 19 homes they have already done that you can get into and ask all your questions.

    It sounds great to me. Head and shoulders above your typical bule Villa.

    It's so Bali.
     
  8. Mark

    Mark Member

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    I've heard that this glamping comes at quite a cost - USD500K and up...
     
  9. DenpasarHouse

    DenpasarHouse Member

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    And get out of this comfy armchair? Nah ;)
     
  10. Nydave

    Nydave Member

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    Great video,very interesting designs ,however I agree with Mark,creating something like this has to take a very long time,and we all know time is money, even at low pay scales the $$$ wouldn`t be long adding up, in regard to the treatment of bamboo with borax it has yet to be proven,its certainly not something I would be willing to gamble my money on,taking the word of an attractive female designer/architect doesn`t quite work for me,having dealt with them all my life I find that many of them don't know their arse from their elbow ( not all of them ),but many of the younger ones,
     
  11. YPDN

    YPDN Member

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    500 large is a lot for almost anything in Bali.
    There is likely to be one or more of these For Sale.

    Berapa harga?
     
  12. Markit

    Markit Well-Known Member

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    Who says it won't sell? It's all a matter of price. I built this for about $6000.00 US. IMGP7602.jpg
     
  13. DenpasarHouse

    DenpasarHouse Member

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    Alright then, so you don't care about the cost? You'd agree that they're gonna cost more than your local labourer, right? Also, where are those highly skilled artisans going to live while they work on your house out in the sticks? How long will it take from go to whoa?

    OK Frank, don't forget about the cost of labour and the complexity of building with a non-standard material that you have no experience or training with. What could go wrong?

    Whose "They"? So your rebuttal is that you're NOT going to use "highly trained and meticulous" structural engineers. But you're going to expect comparable results to those that do? Did you even watch that video you linked to? That's exactly who they used.

    Well, we're doing pretty well here in our new house. I've only seen about 5 inside since we moved in about a year and a half ago. How many do you think you'll be housing with all those bamboo nooks and crannies? I hope you like having those big bastard Tokeks hanging right above your head.

    Alright, again, you don't care about convenience or cost. You're choosing materials that require replacing rather than cleaning.

    Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The rats will be attracted to your kitchen in the same way that they're attracted to any kitchen but you're bamboo one won't be able to keep them out.

    OK. So you're saying you'd be happy to lose money on it?

    You know that's just a gazebo, right? Seriously? $6000 for a gazebo? That's US dollars, right? Like, from the United States of America? The land of the free? There better be tons of expensive, beautifully carved, termite-proof wood under all that alang-alang, otherwise, I'd say you was robbed.
     
  14. ALGO

    ALGO New Member

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    Anyone alive?
    Well, better late..
    An average villa in Green Village is 300 sq.m
    It takes, more or less, 9000 m of bamboo for structure and another 3000 m for interior = 12 000 metrs
    /ibuku.com/projects/river-house/
    /ibuku.com/projects/villa-kelapa/
    so, bamboo cost, borax treated and delivered, let’s say $0.85 pet meter (Am I right, Markit?)
    -> $10,000
    Almost no walls, by the way.
    bamboo floor – 20$/sq.m x 300sq.m =
    -> $6,000
    and well known alan-alan roof – 10$/sq.m ?? x 400sq.m =
    -> $4,000
    comes to USD$ 20,000 per villa to be sold for $500,000
    all the rest is furniture.. And Labor:
    20 Java craftsmen x $10/day x 250 days =
    -> $50,000
    There is no foundation to dig (well, two dozens of nice batu required)

    How much is the riverside piece of land, Markit?

    Let's complete the math.
     
    #14 ALGO, Nov 13, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
  15. Markit

    Markit Well-Known Member

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    Better late than never Algo and welcome.

    I'm often asked what land prices here are and it's one of the most difficult things to answer because land is all different and the way you buy it also. Example: the land next to me is owned by the same guy that owned my place and he now wants 3 juta/year/are leasehold where 9 years ago they were hurting and sold the land freehold. Leasehold around here is anywhere from 20 mil/are for 25 year on up and depends upon need and view.
     
  16. ALGO

    ALGO New Member

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    $4000 Price for alan-alan roof seems to be right -- if it is 400sq -- 4 times larger than round roof radius 6m
    12 juta X 4 = 48mil->4000$
     
  17. Markit

    Markit Well-Known Member

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    That is one big roof!
     
  18. bunyip

    bunyip New Member

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    Howdy. Not only am I interested in Motorcycle 'Touring' through this Lovely Archipelago but I am very interested in natural building in Indonesia. I live in a dense tropical rain forest in Beautiful Far North Queensland. Already have a house strong enough to cruise through a Cat 5 cyclone (tested), composting toilet, stand alone solar system (highest rainfall in Australia) and LARGE water tank. After researching natural building techniques before and after building my current house I have come to the conclusion that the style of house I would like to build (not in Australia due to Nanny State insane regulation) is a hybrid Cob/Bamboo structure :) ... So I find this particular thread very interesting. As cob is basically dirt, sand, straw (preferably hemp) and water built onto a stone stem wall sitting in an drainage trench is this going to be considered a permanent structure? I will not be building in Bali but further east in a quiet valley with plenty of water and a much cooler average temp during the year. Also will be leasing land as I will not be alive to continue 'owning' land when I have left my meat sack!! The benefits of Cob are multitude... The biggest drawback is the intensive labour required to make it (although a 4 in 1 bucket on a tractor does a fine job) and finding that labour cheaply in Australia unless you are living with a bunch of highly motivated hippies is non existent ! The Bamboo would be integral to the building/s as a roofing and internal ceiling material. Verandah etc if it goes two stories. And of course furniture and potentially small outdoor bathroom. The building/s I am designing are 4 m in diameter. 6 meter roof with low overhanging eaves including long front for dry breakfasting. Opinions please ;)
     
  19. Markit

    Markit Well-Known Member

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    I suspect that "cob" walls would constitute a permanent building but you would need to ask an Indo architect about that - not a government wonk!

    You seem to be making the common mistake that most would-be-builders in the tropics make in bringing your dreams with you. I can't tell you how many European/American/Oz dream houses I've seen that smell bad and are poorly designed for the tropics. Why? Because these people all brought their ideals and ideas of what's a "dream house" with them and didn't take account of the tropical realities and just built what they'd dreamt about doing.

    Here in Bali you don't need walls really for anything but privacy so why put up labor intensive and unknown (in Bali) cob walls?

    Come to the tropics first and just drive around looking at what other people have put together here and if you find something of interest just stop and ask if you can look at it! Most owners in my experience are happy to tell you what they did right and wrong.

    Ozzies seem to have a psychopathic need to have a long covered porch - my mate build one in a very scenic part of the island and destroyed most of his view from the porch with the low roofing "normal" in Oz. I'd guess in Oz it has ergonomic reasons?

    Good luck!
     
    #19 Markit, Nov 14, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  20. bunyip

    bunyip New Member

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    I hear you Markit! I have lived in the tropics most of my life and travel (mostly) to the equator...feels more like home to me without the weather extremes FNQ faces each year. The area I would like to build has an average temp of 20 celsius for the year. 13 minimum to 27 maximum (4 to 40 at home ;) ) and no cyclones...Yay!!. 4 meters of rain (same as home) at 1200m elevation. Cob is not a difficult medium to build with and is rendered with a lime plaster. Waterproof and a moisture extractor. Mould is less of a problem with cob than many other mediums. The material is basically free! You just need to use (mostly) material from the rubble trench itself and or the surrounding area. Yes you would need to bring rock in if the land does not contain easily accessible stone. Bamboo in the area is already growing for building purposes and yes the Green School has been doing work with traditional villages on Flores and Sumba. Restoration and information sharing. Covered porch to me means a place that you can sit in pissing down rain and not get wet and or to hang a hammock ;) . The first photo is from a natural building mob in Thailand that my hippy forest neighbour spent 6 months a few years ago helping building homes in villages. Thai cob.jpg I am not walking blind and truly enjoy a good critical assessment from peeps that are already doing and or contemplating building of different approaches. In particular with sustainability in mind.
     
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