YPDN

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The banning of alcohol in RI has been raised before and you can still get it lots of places in Bali. But, some people can't live without the stuff. I love wine although I don't drink it every day, or even every week. Maybe twice a month you'll see me enjoying reds or whites. So, I couldn't care less if it was banned in Bali and, in some ways, it's a great idea because drinking alcohol is a mug's game to start with. Beer drinkers can do Home Brew if they are really desperate. As can spirit drinkers. Wine drinkers - I suppose they can too? I have no idea about home made wine but I have heard of it.

Being essentially a Muslim country is driving this in RI and if you're not happy about that then find some other corner of the Globe to frequent. Let your wallet do the talking. And, don't forget, the greatest nations on Earth do not ban alcohol. They simply tax it. Hhhhmmmmm . . . You can buy beer/wine/spirits in the USA at WalMart and a go-zillion other places there. Australia, the same. And as for the UK, they are pizzpotz with their entrenched pint-drinking culture. None of these are Muslim countries, and never will be. Even in the movies, you see the actors drinking neat whisky/bourbon/martinis, so it's advertised as a way of life.

I agree with Mr Taylor's thoughts (from the news article). There is too much money at stake, as well. Way too much money to just pull the rug out.
This time "Indonesia is considering a new law that would ban the production, distribution and consumption of alcohol across the country, including in Bali." is just like the previous 'attempts' and it won't get any wings with which to fly, IMO. Indonesia needs all the money it can get to look after the basics.

Indonesia is better to focus on removing the stray rabies dogs & cats from the streets than this proposed action. And fix the roads for both surface condition and traffic congestion. Et-cet-era. There's a LOT on the To Do List for RI, and the President and his merry men need to get on with it.
 

YPDN

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Sorry, listers. Darn servers. Just ignore one of those - they are the same posts. Admin can delete one if wanted.
 

Mark

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Apr 19, 2004
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Storm in a teacup (uh, beer mug). Will never happen.
 

JohnnyCool

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Jan 10, 2009
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..And, don't forget, the greatest nations on Earth do not ban alcohol. They simply tax it. Hhhhmmmmm..
Not that Indonesia's one of the "greatest nations on Earth" yet, (if ever), it already taxes alcohol heavily (especially imported stuff).

Two of the Islamist parties, (PKS and PPP), currently in the DPR and trying to push this through, are in la-la land. They have no idea of the full consequences of such a proposal for tourism and local employment, (those involved in hospitality as well as producers, suppliers, transporters, lost tax revenues, etc). On the other hand, this is "democracy"/Indonesian style. We can only hope that reason prevails.

The same could be said about attempts to curtail the tobacco industry. Imagine that?
Whilst both drugs are highly addictive, it begs the question of why they're actually legal (both here and in most other countries)? Answer: money and big businesses.

I don't believe that Indonesia could afford to ban alcohol outright throughout the country. It also can't afford to cope with the health costs of citizens with alcohol/tobacco related diseases.
Between a rock and a hard place. Glad I'm not in government here.

Shooting itself in the foot with this misguided proposal ain't exactly a good example of Wahhabi "wisdom", (if there is such a thing).

Robinson.jpg
 

YPDN

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Not that Indonesia's one of the "greatest nations on Earth" yet, (if ever), it already taxes alcohol heavily (especially imported stuff).

I didn't have ROI and 'the greatest nations' in the same sentence. I was simply pointing out how some of the others handle this issue.


The same could be said about attempts to curtail the tobacco industry. Imagine that?

I recall the President passed/declared a ruling that if you were already 19 yrs old and smoked then you could continue to do so. But any younger and it is not permitted. I thought that was a really good use of his Presidential power.

The use of alcohol in drinks has been around for hundreds of years.
 

JohnnyCool

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..I recall the President passed/declared a ruling that if you were already 19 yrs old and smoked then you could continue to do so. But any younger and it is not permitted. I thought that was a really good use of his Presidential power..

Much of what is "passed/declared" in high places doesn't/hasn't eventuated. Makes you wonder what "power" the top guy really has, (executing drug mules went "OK", yet again, sort of, not completely).

Apart from all the "normal" concerns in Bali, such as the deteriorating environment, overpopulation, water and electricity problems, coastal erosion, sinking water tables, and all the rest, one of my other major concerns is the increasing number of young children riding around on motorbikes.

I read the other day that the mayor of Purwakarta (in West Java), is making it illegal for this to continue unabated. Stiff fines on parents and schools who allow their children to ride, confiscation of motorbikes, etc.
I'm not sure how successful this will be there but it's definitely a step in the right direction. I wish and hope that similar measures will be adopted in Bali, as soon as possible, but I'm not holding my breath.
Meanwhile, multiple disasters are waiting to happen here. Some have already happened, more to come.

The kids in the shot below are "older". Notice no helmets, no licences, obviously no "parental supervision", nor the schools they go to allowing them to park in the first place, etc.

Where I live, some of the kids are maybe 8/9 years old. I nearly got wiped out walking near my place last night.
A convoy of six motorbikes sped past me, three or four kids on each bike, yelling, shouting, having "fun", some without lights on.
Balinese police turn a blind eye (too complicated for them, I guess).

There are never any police on smaller roads where this goes on all the time. I also see them every day riding past police spots on the main roads.
The cops only seem to be interested in pulling over tourists for imaginary "offences", (like, your front tyre was over the barely visible line at the traffic lights), or pretty Balinese girls for some specious "infringement".

kids.jpg
 

davita

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Mar 13, 2012
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Absolutely agree with Johnny and this was confirmed by my surgeon who advises the Bali gov't on health matters. He postulated that the BIGGEST detriment to Bali's health was children having accidents on motor bikes.
Not long ago 4 kids in school uniform were racing and crashed into our stationary car and another parked opposite.
The parents arrived and one demanded that we compensate him for damage...my wife was so enraged she called the police and they sorted him out.
The one that hit us was scraped and bleeding so we wanted him to go to hospital but the father said no...I believe he was poor and worried about cost....so we bandaged his kid up and he was very grateful and promised he would take the motor-bike from him.
I saw him a few days later, still in uniform with a bandaged knee, and still riding his damaged motorbike.
What to do. I'm talking to the Klian Banjar to put sleeping police on our stretch of the road.
 

DenpasarHouse

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Aug 13, 2013
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I might be going native here, but I was thinking the other day about having to drive my son around in the future and I thought is it really unsafe to let a 15 year old ride a scooter in Bali? I mean am I really going to forbid my 15 year old kid from taking the scooter down to the supermarket to get an ice-cream?

Strangely enough, in Australia, I definitely wouldn't let him, the speeds are higher and people simply don't look out for motorcyclists. Here the overwhelming culture of the road is a motorbike culture. The idea that you wouldn't look out for motorbikes is unthinkable.

For my money, they should lower the age to 15 and then strictly enforce that.
 

Mark

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Apr 19, 2004
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I might be going native here, but I was thinking the other day about having to drive my son around in the future and I thought is it really unsafe to let a 15 year old ride a scooter in Bali? I mean am I really going to forbid my 15 year old kid from taking the scooter down to the supermarket to get an ice-cream?

Strangely enough, in Australia, I definitely wouldn't let him, the speeds are higher and people simply don't look out for motorcyclists. Here the overwhelming culture of the road is a motorbike culture. The idea that you wouldn't look out for motorbikes is unthinkable.

For my money, they should lower the age to 15 and then strictly enforce that.

Not sure I fully agree but it's your call - At a minimum a proper fitting helmet and shoes (not slippers) should be worn and he should be taught some basic riding skills, especially regarding speed, braking and checking blind spots (not to mention the rules of the road, both written and unwritten).
 

DenpasarHouse

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Aug 13, 2013
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Not sure I fully agree but it's your call - At a minimum a proper fitting helmet and shoes (not slippers) should be worn and he should be taught some basic riding skills, especially regarding speed, braking and checking blind spots (not to mention the rules of the road, both written and unwritten).

Technically, they should be doing all that right now during the process to get their licence.

No thongs? Aduh! I get hot just thinking about wearing a pair of socks.
 

YPDN

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Jul 30, 2016
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I wonder when or if we'll hear any more on the potential alcohol ban - see post #1.
 

JohnnyCool

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..Here the overwhelming culture of the road is a motorbike culture. The idea that you wouldn't look out for motorbikes is unthinkable..
Well, they should look out for all traffic, not just motorbikes and often they don't. Something happens when some people take to the roads. Many never look left or right when pulling out of a lane into a "street". I see it all the time and have had many near misses (them almost running into my car, or me almost running over them by "accident").

Add to that that many locals seem to love to cut corners. Did I mention overtaking (or should I say "undertaking"), on the left-hand side of traffic?
Of those who actually wear a "helmet" of some kind, many don't do them up. Maybe these things are a by-product of Balinese Hindu beliefs - like, death is not the end.
Get killed and you'll get reincarnated.

Those who ride at night without lights do so for various reasons:

1) the lights are broken and don't work
2) saves the battery
3) think everybody should be able to see them so what's the problem
4) they only care about "laws" within their own banjars
5) they couldn't care less

..For my money, they should lower the age to 15 and then strictly enforce that..
Driving anything here is neither for the faint-hearted nor the inexperienced. Young teens are not particularly known for their powers of concentration, judgement and "common sense".

Lowering the age to 15 is a ridiculous proposition (IMHO). Why not lower it to 10 or 12? What's the difference?
When the existing road "laws" aren't being enforced as it is, what's going to change?
Thousands of people are already driving/riding around without "licences" and many vehicles aren't even registered properly.

..Technically, they should be doing all that right now during the process to get their licence..
They're not. "Technically" is one thing and "really" is another.
Many get their "licences" without doing any tests of any kind. The main police licensing place in Denpasar, (actually Kerobokan), has one room fitted out with a bunch of computers.
Those trying to do the right thing subject themselves to a form of torture, trying to answer multiple-choice questions that don't reflect actual conditions and unwritten practices on real roads.
Theory is fine, but survival more so.

The "smart" ones pay some extra money to the police (or one of their agents), do no tests, get their fingerprints and photo taken and zoom off into the wild blue yonder.
Pull into the police station's parking lot and, depending what day it is, you can be surrounded by licence touts.

In all my years of living in Bali (about 21 now), I've never had to do any kinds of tests. One time, way back in the early 1970s (when I first came to Bali), I had to do a test for a motorbike licence.
It was early days and probably quite novel for the Balinese police at the time. The written part of the "test" was in Indonesian. No problem. If I didn't understand the question, the police told me which right answers to tick.

The physical riding test involved dodging and weaving through a few plastic hats without knocking any over. I remember a young Australian girl trying it - she knocked some over. The police moved them further apart and she finally managed.

If you care about your child, don't let him loose on a motorbike in Bali. Bali is definitely not the place to learn driving for anybody, especially a 15 -year old.
I know of several expat's kids who've been killed over the years. Very unpleasant. And if they kill or injure somebody else, it all becomes even more complicated.
 

DenpasarHouse

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Aug 13, 2013
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Lowering the age to 15 is a ridiculous proposition (IMHO). Why not lower it to 10 or 12? What's the difference?
Seriously? You think there's no difference in maturity between a 10 and a 15 year old?

Bali is definitely not the place to learn driving for anybody, especially a 15 -year old.
You do realise that literally millions of people do exactly this. I would never recommend a westerner come to Indonesia to learn how to ride a motorbike as the road culture is vastly different. But someone who has grown up here has this culture already ingrained in them.

They're not. "Technically" is one thing and "really" is another.
Yeah, I know. That's why I said "Technically".

I know of several expat's kids who've been killed over the years.
That's very sobering and if you've got the time to go into it I'd be very interested to hear their stories.
 

YPDN

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Thousands of people are already driving/riding around without "licences" and many vehicles aren't even registered properly.

To a certain extent, this is brought about by financial circumstance. The SAMSAT costs are a certain amount plus the actual DL costs around Rp350,000 for 5 years.
We foreigners pay the same SAMSAT amount as the locals do. Their DL - well, Rp350K is a lot to a local and they probably have trouble putting thaat together at the time. I pay the license fee for my people because a) it's good to do and b) I send them on errands whenever I need to, using their own wheels. I also give enough for fuel each time.

The Government should bring the pricing more into line with the current living costs for locals. IMO, the cost for a DL is way too high for a local. I use an Int'l Permit which is $45 (Rp450K) per annum. Plus the cost of providing a passport-sized photo for it for most of the renewals.