Markit

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Sep 3, 2007
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Karangasem, Bali
Having now driven a motorbike here for almost a year I have to say they are a lovely and relatively safe form of transport - if you disregard the other idiots in cars/trucks/Harleys/ambulances on the road with you. Oh and stay away from the south of the island - fecking awful!

Even the kiddies are no real problem (excepting groups of small boys all clutching on to one bike). The thing about not looking left or right when you enter an intersection comes from the fact that there is a trade-off for the drivers attention: there MAY be danger coming from right or left, but there is FOR SURE a problem with where you are heading - be it the above listed idiot road sharers or bad surfacing (lack of asphalt, sand or grit) or all of these.

Karma is not a part of it.
 

JohnnyCool

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2009
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...Why not lower it to 10 or 12? What's the difference?...
I was being flippant. Of course I know the difference. I presume that you do, too.

...someone who has grown up here has this culture already ingrained in them...
That's true. However, there are also kids with a tree or asphalt ingrained in their heads (the "lucky" ones who died). Others might be riding around in a wheelchair, if their families can afford one.

...expat's kids who've been killed over the years...
The ones I personally know of were killed many years ago (late 1990s, when traffic was much lighter than these days). I don't remember all the details now, but I'll give you one example:

An expat couple took over a restaurant in the Ubud area. They had a beautiful and precociously "independent" daughter (aged about 15/16). One night she went to Double Six (Kuta/Legian) with a group of friends.
Her main friend was Balinese (maybe 17/18 yo). After leaving Double Six to ride back to Ubud, (an even longer ride then than these days), they crashed or were crashed into and she died on the spot. Her parents were devastated, sold-up and left Bali.

I know several others with similar stories. I also know of quite a few Balinese kids who've been killed riding motorbikes, getting themselves wiped out by trucks, losing control after hitting potholes, accidentally driving over cliffs, etc.

If you wouldn't let your 15 yo son ride in Australia, letting him do so here could turn out very bad. Learning Balinese "road culture" doesn't come from handling a bike in a soccer field.
Roads aren't playgrounds anywhere in the world, especially here. Going with the flow of traffic takes experience, and a healthy dose of art, luck and "science".
Always need to expect the unexpected.
 

JohnnyCool

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Jan 10, 2009
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[MENTION=19581]YPDN[/MENTION]
...Their DL - well, Rp350K is a lot to a local and they probably have trouble putting thaat (sic) together at the time...
Maybe they should have thought about that before buying a motorbike in the first place, (usually on credit and often at exorbitant interest rates). If they can afford that they should be able to afford the rego fees.

Hey, maybe they should also get discounts for insurance, repairs and maintenance, free parking, helmet prices, leather jackets and motorcycle boots...
 

YPDN

Member
Jul 30, 2016
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JC, that can be considered benevolent socialism at it's smiling best.
But they still couldn't afford it. Even if they did, old Uncle Komang would borrow it and he doesn't bathe very often. And the $30 helms they use - a 2-wheeler expert I know said they might as well wear aluminium foil on their head, for all the protection those plastic helms provide.
 

JohnnyCool

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Jan 10, 2009
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A car travelling at 60 kmh that comes to an abrupt stop with a box of tissues flying around can cause severe injuries.
Your 2-wheel expert friend is totally correct.

On a brighter note, many helmets here have their uses, such as to scoop up bits of brain off the road as long as the helmet didn't shatter completely.
Some riders might as well wear a box of tissues on their heads (cheaper even than tin-foil hats). And tissues probably wouldn't affect wi-fi signals while riders are trying to text as they're riding, or searching for Pokemon characters.

Oh..and why doesn't old Uncle Komang bathe very often? Can't afford water, or there isn't enough of it?
Just curious.

:lemo:
 

davita

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Mar 13, 2012
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We had a friend from USA visiting and he seriously wondered why Bali people wear, as he described, 'Tupperware' on their head.....when driving motor-bikes.
 

YPDN

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Jul 30, 2016
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Oh..and why doesn't old Uncle Komang bathe very often? Can't afford water, or there isn't enough of it?
Just curious.:lemo:

I have smelled a few of them. Aunt Komang as well.
And, as we get older and become less interested in presenting ourselves, we bathe less often, shave less often and get haircuts less often.
That, of course, is a generalization. But it tells a story.
 
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YPDN

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Jul 30, 2016
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We had a friend from USA visiting and he seriously wondered why Bali people wear, as he described, 'Tupperware' on their head.....when driving motor-bikes.

I fell off my HONDA Vario September 2015 at about 25 kms/hr.
I was wearing an Aussie standard open-face helmet.
I still recall the tinny sound the helmet conveyed from the left side while I slid along the new asphalt.
 

davita

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Mar 13, 2012
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I fell off my HONDA Vario September 2015 at about 25 kms/hr.
I was wearing an Aussie standard open-face helmet.
I still recall the tinny sound the helmet conveyed from the left side while I slid along the new asphalt.

Your post is hilarious YPDN...last time I was in OZ I drank many tinnys. Are you sure that wasn't the reason for falling off your Honda...JEEZ I can even hold onto a Vario ojek with my belly full of Bintang....:icon_e_biggrin:
 

YPDN

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Jul 30, 2016
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JEEZ I can even hold onto a Vario ojek with my belly full of Bintang....:icon_e_biggrin:

ha ha
You are a better man than I am, DVT.

The tinny sound is very reminiscent of landing a taildragger on the mains and then bleeding the attitude with FWD stick and then more FWD stick. Eventually the tail wheel comes down and there's that noise. It sounded like that. You almost can't hear it on an unsealed surface.

We used to try and call it accurately when the Dakota was landing. (I have never landed one though)
Big Cheers! Grown men acting like retarded kids.
 

davita

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2012
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The tinny sound is very reminiscent of landing a taildragger on the mains and then bleeding the attitude with FWD stick and then more FWD stick. Eventually the tail wheel comes down and there's that noise. It sounded like that. You almost can't hear it on an unsealed surface.

We used to try and call it accurately when the Dakota was landing. (I have never landed one though)

I know what you mean as I flying was on this bird around 1963-5ish....Handley Page Hastings - Military Wiki - Wikia

My log book, from those days, was eaten by termites and ended up like confetti so, sadly, don't have any details of those flights.

The pilot landing would lose sight of the runway when in a proper three wheel position...two wheelies, as you describe, were not good landings as they tended to bounce and extended the runway needed for landing.
He would call for power 'slow-cut or cut' depending on how close he thought he was to the ground. The Flight Engineer, who handled the throttles, could see the distance from the wheels to the ground from a side window, and would adjust the throttles accordingly...thus, if it was a good three point landing the pilot got hi-5's, if it bounced it was the F/E's fault.
That was considered fair if the pilot flying bought the after-flight beers.....:lemo:
 

YPDN

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Jul 30, 2016
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I like wheelers. They seem more difficult but you have greater control during that phase, IMO, with differential braking.
The guy who taught me, apart from being a bit of a grouch, liked them too.
3-pointers can stress the tailwheel which isn't really intended to take that impact if you don't grease it on.
Come in, low and slow, and get rid of the ballerina shoes asap.

If/when Garuda does the BALI-US flights, the price will be most likely higher than the $900 on SUB-SQ return. Therefore, who is going to choose Garuda.
 

DenpasarHouse

Active Member
Aug 13, 2013
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I was being flippant. Of course I know the difference. I presume that you do, too.
Alright. Well, that was a waste of time.

. . . there are also kids with a tree or asphalt ingrained in their heads . . .
Heh. Good one.

. . . she died on the spot.
Thanks for the story. We're not hooked into the expat scene here so I have no idea how common it is.

I also know of quite a few Balinese kids who've been killed riding motorbikes . . .
I suppose that's the crux of it from my point of view. I haven't heard of a single person dying from a motorbike accident. In the 4-5 years I've been on the road in Bali I've personally only seen 2 minor accidents, never been in any myself and neither has my Balinese wife in the decade-or-so that she's being riding around.

Still, you're probably right. It's probably only reasonable for a 15 year-old if they've had extensive training, practice and testing. Which is a pretty unrealistic expectation for this country.
 

davita

Well-Known Member
Mar 13, 2012
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Further to my post #10 here is some 'meat on the bones' of my posit...Dr Tjakra is the surgeon who recently operated on my Colon Tumor. This concerned the situation in 2011...imagine if the same stats were produced recently with the increase in traffic. I cannot get out of my head the stupidity of motorcyclists in Bali...not only the childrens issue.

"(9/2/2012) Bali Daily (The Jakarta Post) quotes Dr. Tjakra Wibawa Manuaba of the medical faculty at Bali’s Udayana University citing traffic accidents as the island’s number one public health issue.

Said Dr. Manuaba: “People might consider cardiovascular disease, cancer, diabetes and even contagious diseases like rabies as the most incurable and deadly diseases for the Balinese people. For me, traffic accidents are now the biggest killer.”

Concerned at the growing number of accident and resulting casualties that disproportionately affect young people, Manuaba regrets the resulting widespread physical, financial and psychological consequences for Bali and its people.

While the Indonesian Cancer Foundation blames cancer for numerous deaths, Manuaba, who is himself an oncologist, retorts: “Cancer and cardiovascular diseases are actually treatable if the sufferer receives early medical treatment and leads a healthy life.”

Bali police estimate that 700 people lost their lives in traffic accidents in 2011, a total that does not include people who died in hospital or later as the result of injuries sustained on Bali’s roadways. In the same year, 759 sustained serious injuries while 1,591 suffered minor injuries.

Traffic injuries and deaths are most prevalent among people aged 16-30 years of age. The Sanglah General Hospital in Denpasar claims its treats 150 people every day involved in traffic mishaps on the island’s roads

Manuaba continued: “This [traffic accidents] is the most crucial public health issue that must be addressed in a comprehensive way. It is mostly caused by lack of discipline, human error and public ignorance on the dangers of driving recklessly . . . Poor road facilities, unclear traffic signs and weak law enforcement also contribute to serious traffic accidents.”

The Doctor slammed the failure of the police, families and schools to educate young people on road safety. He also cited the tendency for parent to ignore the law and to purchase motorcycles for their children who are unlicensed and too young to legally operate a motor vehicle.

He said 80% of the accidents in Bali involve motorcycles."
 

JohnnyCool

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Jan 10, 2009
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...I suppose that's the crux of it from my point of view. I haven't heard of a single person dying from a motorbike accident. In the 4-5 years I've been on the road in Bali I've personally only seen 2 minor accidents...
Guess you've been lucky then. I've seen more than I care to recall, sometimes right in front of me.

Many "accidents" here aren't really accidents but the results of stupid road behaviour, ignorance, lack of police enforcement, "it won't happen to me mentality", impatience, little understanding of or care for "road etiquette"...

I'm forever bemused by pedestrian zebra crossings. Hardly anyone stops for pedestrians trying to cross a road, and if they do, there's a good chance that some idiot will crash into them.
Seems like a complete waste of paint to me and what are double white lines for?
Decoration, perhaps.
 

YPDN

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Jul 30, 2016
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Guess you've been lucky then. I've seen more than I care to recall, sometimes right in front of me.

I saw an old guy get hit (on the Gold Coast in Australia) on a pedestrian crossing. The driver had been racing me along a stretch of road and I slowed down to back off what could be called a normal pace. I was ahead. The younger other driver kept going, probably to establish his supremacy as 'the winner' because I appeared to quit. I was in my 30s then. And alone in the car. The old guy defiantly attempted the pedestrian crossing when most of us would have noticed and waited for the young maniac to pass. I saw (thru the rear view mirror) the old guy get totalled and he did an airborne somersault quite above the roof of the car and my first thoughts included 'he should have waited', 'his defiance contributed to his demise' and 'so sad'. I didn't stop because there were enough other people milling there.

Many "accidents" here aren't really accidents but the results of stupid road behaviour, ignorance, lack of police enforcement, "it won't happen to me mentality", impatience, little understanding of or care for "road etiquette"...

Please define 'accident'.
Also, there seems to be a lot of Police bashing going on. Most things are not their fault and they are not even there at the time.
 
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Mark

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Apr 19, 2004
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I suspect that a lot of fatalities are not reported in the media. For example, last month a young Dutch guy died in a crash - graphic photos of his helmet-less body lying face down in a ditch and smashed up bike were temporarily posted on Ubud Community facebook page - and there have been no subsequent reports that I've seen in the English media. With no helmet, it's hard to see how this guy could have avoided death or at the least very serious injury after falling into a concrete drainage culvert. We've all seen lots of stupidity but some of the most dangerous behaviour I've observed is by bule riders, who in most cases lack licenses and experience on motorcycles, are unfamiliar with the 'rules and customs' of driving in Bali and in many cases aren't wearing helmets. We can't change the behavior of locals (many of whom also lack licenses, experience and helmets) but at the very least we can change our own and take some responsibility to not contribute to the problem.
 

JohnnyCool

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Jan 10, 2009
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Define "accident"? OK - How about anything that happens suddenly or by chance without an apparent cause.
For a major "cause" of many "accidents" here, re-read what I wrote before.

So, you once saw an old guy in Australia wiped out on a pedestrian crossing by a young maniac driver (whom you were racing until you slowed down).
Maybe the old guy had poor vision, bad hearing and blind faith (no pun) thinking the crossing should be safe.

I know that there are crazy drivers all over the world and bad stuff happens (sometimes). Around these parts, bad stuff happens on roads every day of the week.
That's a difference, wouldn't you agree?

I fail to see the exact relevance of your comment to what some of us have been writing about.

"Police bashing"? Paying police properly to do their job properly in the first place would be a major leap forward.
Many people forget (or don't know) that there are "speed limits".
I've seen countless drivers doing 80-100kmh zooming past police cars where it's supposed to be 60kmh. Were the cops trying to save petrol?
Anybody here actually seen someone pulled over for speeding?

In case you also want a definition for "cause", try this one: "A justification for something existing or happening".
Now give me your justification for the ongoing carnage on our roads.
 

YPDN

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Jul 30, 2016
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Define "accident"? OK - How about anything that happens suddenly or by chance without an apparent cause.

As you might know: some see and some just never will. Therefore, the usage of 'apparent' should be considered.

So, you once saw an old guy in Australia wiped out on a pedestrian crossing by a young maniac driver (whom you were racing until you slowed down).
Maybe the old guy had poor vision, bad hearing and blind faith (no pun) thinking the crossing should be safe.

No. I apparently did not clearly describe it all. It was his attitude that did him in. He saw a pedestrian crossing and then stepped out onto it. His wife was holding back, obviously used to the guy's attitude. I feel/felt sorry for her. She looked afraid. You had to be there to see the whole Rembrandt on it.

I know that there are crazy drivers all over the world and bad stuff happens (sometimes). Around these parts, bad stuff happens on roads every day of the week.
That's a difference, wouldn't you agree?

I don't have the luxury of worldwide stats from which to form an opinion.

I fail to see the exact relevance of your comment to what some of us have been writing about.

That's OK. But, I'd put the cork back in the JAMIESONS if I were you.

"Police bashing"? Paying police properly to do their job properly in the first place would be a major leap forward.

Why is that? IMO, that's not going to fix the problem.

In case you also want a definition for "cause", try this one: "A justification for something existing or happening".

I didn't ask for one.

Now give me your justification for the ongoing carnage on our roads.

Are you competing here? Carnage exists in the 'ice' towns that have sprung up in recent years, in the homes under the heading of Domestic Violence, in the towns that have polluted water from mining, in the sex parlours through out Asia distributing HIV and Hep B/C to name a few carnagious atrocities. I do not agree the Bali road toll can be accurately described as carnage.
 
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