Mickey

Member
Dec 7, 2010
63
1
6
Dear friends,

i finally found a piece of land that really interest me to buy.

The land has around 10 hectare, in a cigar form, it has two entrance, one from the east and the other from the west.

i have already set up a PMA with 3* Boutique Resort Licence. (51% / 49 % ( Nominee)).

As this is the first time i'm buying a land in Indonesia, and as part of the due diligence process i would like to have your advice and help about the right questions to ask before i make any decision or down payment. later i will be talking to a lawyer/Notary
The plot of land has 22 certificates and that is something scaring me.
the zoning of the land is agriculture and the owner will convert the land to a commercial land.

Thanks in advance for your valuable help and time

Regards,
Mckey
 

gilbert de jong

Active Member
Jan 20, 2009
3,198
3
36
Panji, Singaraja.
good on you that you've found some land that sparks your interest.
this being said, imho you are doing things backwards...
you should have start talking with a lawyer/notary, just talking...explaining what you want,where you want it,etcetc...
because unless I am very wrong, you can't have a PMA with a 3 star boutique license, if at the time of license-application there is no valid location for this PMA to operate/develop a hotel...
but since you say you already have the license (?) I will just answer your questions...

10 HECTARE is a pretty big piece of land, and 22 sertifikats dividing that land is not strange..
Talk to a PPAT notary, bring copy's of all the sertifikats and ask him to check who owns the land, taxes paid on it, etcetc...
Or if you really really really want it, then you and owner of the land meet at the notary..owner brings all original sertifikats hands them over to the notary, who will check everything. 10% DP is made to the notary who will hold on to this and if everything is okay with the sertifikats and the notary can proceed to start the process of changing the name on the sertifikats, the 10% + another 'XX' percentage of total price is paid to the owner, and the proces of namechange starts...at completion you pay the balance.
 

Fred2

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2010
1,182
83
48
Surabaya/Australia
Have your lawyer/notary check the certificates first then pay your deposit, then have the land rezoned & a IMB before you do anything else. Do not pay any more money till the owner gets this done.
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
9,317
1,110
113
Karangasem, Bali
I would agree with all the above and just add that land is good but access is better - have you got agreements from all parties that you can access your land? From public roads? Private roads? Get the access permission in writing! Involve your Kepala Desa (mayor) in the access questions. How about power? Do you have power poles already running by the property? If not you will need permission from the other land owners to site your poles - get it.

Personally I would get the land rezoned and an IMB on it before I paid for it - make that a term of the completion.
 

inwoel

New Member
Jun 17, 2012
29
0
1
i think it is still a long way to close the deal .. just make sure you hire a right notary and lawyer. you will know if they are the right one or not by testing their knowledge in land and license from a-z, and they suppose to guide you through the right process. If they are saying "don't worry we can make it easier or simpler and faster" then walk away and find another. so many aspects that needs to be clarified first with all of the land owners and license offices before you pay deposits. Some of steps explained by other friends here are good, some others you will get from a right notary/lawyer/consultant, don't rush to do payment. Good luck
 

Mickey

Member
Dec 7, 2010
63
1
6
Dear Friends,

Thank you all for your valuable advices as usual.

@Gilbert, You are absolutely right. The PMA establishment started 7 weeks ago but i had it on hold until i have the valid location, once the land is finalised i will give the green light to my associates to finalise the PMA.

How much i have to pay the lawyer / Notary?

@Fred2, i have indeed requested the land owner to change the zoning of the land from Agriculture to commercial.
i have also requested an IMB.

@Markit...my man, you hit the point again...and yes have GOUDA cheese, jong belegen, old..i also brought Camembert but i through it away as the flies were following me in whole Bali. send me a PM and come get some if you want ;)

Your comments are exactly what i'm looking for and i will add them to the sales contract.

If there are any other tips please please share.
 

gilbert de jong

Active Member
Jan 20, 2009
3,198
3
36
Panji, Singaraja.
IMB is also part of the establishing an PMA..in other words the owner now, can't supply her with an IMB for 22 seperate sertifikats (c'mon people grow a brain)

imho..first thing to do is talk to a very good notary, explain him/her the situation you are in (regarding PMA, measurements of land,changing the zoning,namechange,taxes) and take it from there...
indeed involve the kepala desa, regarding electricity/acces/water...

as for notary-costs, it would depend on the total saleprice, checking 22 sertifikats is a lot..maybe something to think about is when you decided to buy, to combine several patches of land into 1 sertifikat...so instead of 22 you would have less sertifikats, less paperwork regarding taxes etcetc...
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
9,317
1,110
113
Karangasem, Bali
IMHO it seems quite normal here for the same owner to have multiple certificates on one piece of land, for instance due to an inheritance where the land has been broken up amongst all the children?

Don't know if that is the case in this instance but if it is not then you're right Gil it might get a little strange.
 
Feb 15, 2013
484
6
18
Jakarta
When changing the status of the 22 Sertipikak Hak Milik to Hak Guna Bangun for the PMA, the 22 separate parcels of land can be combined into one parcel, which will make things much easier to handle administratively. Also, if I am not mistaken, the law requires that the spouse of the owner of the land also signs her agreement to the transaction. Please correct me if this is not so.

I would also suggest that you get a surveyor from the Badan Pertanahan Negara (BPN) and accurately measure the land to make sure the area on the certificates is the same as the actual measured land. Remember, these original measurements were probably made using less accurate instruments. Be particularly careful to establish the outer boundaries of your land, and mark them well. A 1% error over 100,000.- square metres of land is 1000 square metres (10 are).

Also survey in your access roads, and make it part of the original Akte Jual Beli. (If you can).
 

Mark

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2004
874
313
63
When changing the status of the 22 Sertipikak Hak Milik to Hak Guna Bangun for the PMA, the 22 separate parcels of land can be combined into one parcel, which will make things much easier to handle administratively. Also, if I am not mistaken, the law requires that the spouse of the owner of the land also signs her agreement to the transaction. Please correct me if this is not so.

I would also suggest that you get a surveyor from the Badan Pertanahan Negara (BPN) and accurately measure the land to make sure the area on the certificates is the same as the actual measured land. Remember, these original measurements were probably made using less accurate instruments. Be particularly careful to establish the outer boundaries of your land, and mark them well. A 1% error over 100,000.- square metres of land is 1000 square metres (10 are).

Also survey in your access roads, and make it part of the original Akte Jual Beli. (If you can).

This is very good advice indeed.
 

Dunaden

Member
Nov 18, 2012
174
0
16
Noosa Heads
I agree this is probably the best thread I've seen. I've just looked up Rainyhendriani.com(I think)- a great helpful interview for those looking to buy a property in Bali! I'm interested to know if anyone has dealt with her etc and what people think of the interview....
 

ferdie

Member
Apr 4, 2013
677
2
16
Near Ubud
First of all, congrats @mickey keep hoping for the best and prepared for the worst case scenario :icon_e_smile:

IMB is also part of the establishing an PMA..in other words the owner now, can't supply her with an IMB for 22 seperate sertifikats (c'mon people grow a brain)

imho..first thing to do is talk to a very good notary, explain him/her the situation you are in (regarding PMA, measurements of land,changing the zoning,namechange,taxes) and take it from there...
indeed involve the kepala desa, regarding electricity/acces/water...

as for notary-costs, it would depend on the total saleprice, checking 22 sertifikats is a lot..maybe something to think about is when you decided to buy, to combine several patches of land into 1 sertifikat...so instead of 22 you would have less sertifikats, less paperwork regarding taxes etcetc...

I think @gilbert's advice is spot on already, you have to complete the whole design as a package, after that you can start the IMB process. In other words, you have to buy the whole land first before submitting the IMB.

My advice is make sure you put past tax obligations as the owners obligation in the purchase agreement, withhold some of the payments until all of the documents are complete, because some people don't pay their land and building tax (PBB) and you might stumble into the penalties in the future.

Also, I don't know which area is your new place. Its is better if you meet the other expats around the area to know how open the local community to strangers in their place, some cases happens before where the legal paperwork is completed and payments are done, the local community rejects the new owner and left the buyer paralyzed having their land barricaded by the local people.

Plus meet the local banjar or desa publicly in their community meetings to let them know your plans and know what they can give you and what you can offer to them, its better to do it in the beginning than having them coming to the hotels and make demands in the future, after all its a 3 star hotel, so people might notice right away:greedy_dollars::greedy_dollars:

There will be money flowing out so its best to know it before you are stuck having to pay things you didn't want to pay.
Worst case scenario is like what I heard about problems between Joger and the locals in Luwus, because they started making extra demands after signing a written agreement in the past. In the end Joger closed their branch in Luwus instead of giving more money to the locals.

Also for access road, its better to have your private road than having to pass the local banjar road, there will be extra cost for anything you touch since you are an expat:disgust:
 
Last edited:

Mickey

Member
Dec 7, 2010
63
1
6
Dear Friends, thanks a million for all your valuable input.
the last couple of weeks were hectic but fortunately your advices have helped me to prepare.

Summary of what is done so far:
the land is located on the island of Sumba so some steps and procedures might be different than Bali. We are lucky the owner is a good guy with great local influence and the cooperation is fine so far.

i requested the land owner to clean all the land and assemble all the previous owners to put land borders on each parcel. so far we are at 70%.
After that i asked the owner to create puzzle map with all plots and we market the ones we have with green colour, certificate number and size.
Surprise we find out some pieces were missing the certificate but fortunately the seller made the necessary arrangements and we got the certificate which we sent to the notary together with the other 22 certificates.

i have to mention that in Sumba there is no PPAT Notary, all work needs to be done through CAMAT and Agraria. So we hired a notary from Bali who got the approval from the local CAMAT in Sumba to work together on the deal.

Also we made some extra agreements with the owner concerning access:
The land has a Cigar form ( 900m L x 120m W), with a rice field in front and a coconut valley on the back. the whole land is surrounded by a small public road.
we agreed with the owner and the local community to block the road and put security agents on both entrances (east & west) on our costs and they have agreed.

We also got the approval from the local community to get a 4m wide road through the rice filed to the beach.

These agreements are of course part of the LETTER OF INTENTION and my question is how can i make them legally biding between us, seller and the local community?

I also need to make topographic and land survey plans of the land, does anyone know what are the rates in Bali/Lombok?
i heared it's arround 100.000IDR/M2...i have 120.000m2 = Fortune which i'm not wiling to pay.

that is it for now.i will post more information soon.
 
Last edited:

Mark

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2004
874
313
63
I also need to make topographic and land survey plans of the land, does anyone know what are the rates in Bali/Lombok?
i heared it's arround 100.000IDR/M2...i have 120.000m2 = Fortune which i'm not wiling to pay.

I believe we paid around 2.5 million for a boundary and topographical survey on 50 are of terraced and partially hillside land, which works out to 50k per are (100M2), inclusive of a digital cad file. Maybe it costs more on Sumba but I would think more like 100k per are, not per square meter.
 

ferdie

Member
Apr 4, 2013
677
2
16
Near Ubud
I just notice that its in Sumba, so its a whole new ball game
Must have been quite an adventure to live and work in that area :applause:
just make sure you got enough water supply for your hotel because I knew some area in Sumba had big problem getting decent water supply
 
Last edited:
Feb 15, 2013
484
6
18
Jakarta
I also need to make topographic and land survey plans of the land, does anyone know what are the rates in Bali/Lombok?
i heared it's arround 100.000IDR/M2...i have 120.000m2 = Fortune which i'm not wiling to pay.


Mickey, look up the following link. It is the government system of payments for the various services of the BPN (National Land Agency).

http://jdih.bpk.go.id/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/PP-13-Tahun-2010.pdf

and go down to the second half of the document which explains the formulas they use to calculate the costs for the different sizes of land.

PENJELASAN
ATAS
PERATURAN PEMERINTAH REPUBLIK INDONESIA
NOMOR 13 TAHUN 2010
TENTANG
JENIS DAN TARIF ATAS JENIS PENERIMAAN NEGARA BUKAN PAJAK
YANG BERLAKU PADA BADAN PERTANAHAN NASIONAL

and go to page 3, b), as your land falls within this formula, between 10 and 1000 hectare (b) luas tanah lebih dari 10 hektar sampai dengan 1.000 hektar)

yours is 120,000 m2

120,000
Tu = ( ------------ X Rp.80,000.-) + Rp.14,000,000.- = Rp.16,400,000.-
4,000

Tu = (120,000 divided by 4000, then multiplied by 80,000, which equals RP.2,400,000 plus Rp.14,000,000.- = Rp.16,400,000.-

using that formula you should only pay Rp.16,400,000.- for your boundary map, which will include an accurate number for exactly how many square meters are in your block.

You should be able nego with the surveyor on the side for a topo map.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:

Mickey

Member
Dec 7, 2010
63
1
6
Dear Friends,

i have finally managed to hire a topographer from Jogjakarta.

i will have to say that i have compared 8 offers from different land surveyors but this company was the best.

Cheap, all included service, great english communication skills and are ready to travel anywhere in Indonesia.

Total price is 3.00.000 IDR/ hectare including ( flights, accommodation and food).

Please don't hesitate to PM me if you need there contact details.