Another "looking to buy" thread

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
9,315
1,109
113
Karangasem, Bali
If you are planning on teaching in any of the international schools here I must warn you that a friend of mine is in a higher position at the Green School in Ubud and told me that pre-corona the student intake was 4000+ and now is less than 1200 tendency falling. He says they will not regain their numbers anytime in the near future so also with teachers and he says Green School is the best of the bunch all others are even worse off. Plan accordingly.
 

Melati

Member
Mar 4, 2017
79
12
8
If you are planning on teaching in any of the international schools here I must warn you that a friend of mine is in a higher position at the Green School in Ubud and told me that pre-corona the student intake was 4000+ and now is less than 1200 tendency falling. He says they will not regain their numbers anytime in the near future so also with teachers and he says Green School is the best of the bunch all others are even worse off. Plan accordingly.
Markit, do you mean Green school had 4.000 students? and now has 1.200 students? really? are the private schools open in Bali? I know a private school is open in Ubud and I was surprise.
 

spicyayam

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2009
3,592
342
83
Schools are still closed in Bali. I don't know about GS. I believe GS started online classes like many schools.

Even with online classes, parents need to do a lot with their kids to make sure they do all of the work.

We have been doing our best with our kids. It's not easy and our kids miss going to school. Our local school hasn't been great at adapting and we recently found an online school with reasonable fees.
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
9,315
1,109
113
Karangasem, Bali
Markit, do you mean Green school had 4.000 students? and now has 1.200 students? really? are the private schools open in Bali? I know a private school is open in Ubud and I was surprise.
I actually haven't seen my friend in a while but they were doing online schooling and also boarding. He said they lost the 2800 students because they were charging the same yearly tuition but for online classes.
 

Melati

Member
Mar 4, 2017
79
12
8
I actually haven't seen my friend in a while but they were doing online schooling and also boarding. He said they lost the 2800 students because they were charging the same yearly tuition but for online classes.
Sorry Markit, my post was more about if you are sure there was 4.000 students in that school before? was not around 400 students? have you ever been there? I cannot imagine 4.000 students in that school! it seems like around 2011 had 200 students, how come they can have now 4.000 students? or maybe I am seeing double zeros?
 

Markit

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2007
9,315
1,109
113
Karangasem, Bali
Sorry Markit, my post was more about if you are sure there was 4.000 students in that school before? was not around 400 students? have you ever been there? I cannot imagine 4.000 students in that school! it seems like around 2011 had 200 students, how come they can have now 4.000 students? or maybe I am seeing double zeros?
I believe that when you were there the school was still starting out. I went there originally 2007 and they didn't have much there at all. You may well be right, unfortunately not sure about the number but will check next time I see him. I do know it was a significant number of the student body went missing.
 

harryopal

Well-Known Member
May 5, 2016
777
362
63
Came to Bali 2017 with Sosbud granted while In Aus. I can't remember the basics like cost and how long before applying for Kitas. I seem to recall the Sosbud application was not so difficult.
I am to try and get back to Aus next week. I have Kitap which I will lose if leaving without Merp. Not sure that I can assume I will be well enough to return any time soon or for an extended period. Trying to weigh up difference between Merp costs and just later applying for Sosbud. I have been searching trying to find just that basic information on Sosbud.... how much... how long it can be used.
Any links where this might be found. I really have tried.
 

PERtoDPS

Active Member
Dec 31, 2018
549
160
43
Came to Bali 2017 with Sosbud granted while In Aus. I can't remember the basics like cost and how long before applying for Kitas. I seem to recall the Sosbud application was not so difficult.
I am to try and get back to Aus next week. I have Kitap which I will lose if leaving without Merp. Not sure that I can assume I will be well enough to return any time soon or for an extended period. Trying to weigh up difference between Merp costs and just later applying for Sosbud. I have been searching trying to find just that basic information on Sosbud.... how much... how long it can be used.
Any links where this might be found. I really have tried.

On the social visa, now you come in via business visa mate. My agent has been great and I've referred them to people who successfully entered Indonesia in the last few days.

https://www.fabiovisatravel.com/business-visa-during-pandemic-covid19/ Has their what's app and they are very responsive, the prices fluctuate but at the moment are pretty reasonable. 4 juta new business visa, 800,000 extension you can extend it 5x. Now the deal is while you're on land during the pandemic, this get's made in to social visa after the initial 6 months (or whatever you get it's close to this) the new social visa is 3juta and 800,000 extension and goes for 5 months. Right now you can just keep rolling that.

Feel free to do some price comparisons, always seems to be someone popping their head up saying their agent is cheaper, but this one has some really handy contacts and is responsive as which is all I need. Others I've considered are Bali Legals and Easy Visa (in Sanur) I met the owner of Easy Visa once, she was pretty cool too.

While you're down under tell Mcgowan to hurry up and unlock the west will ya? Shoot me a PM if you need anymore help.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gtrken

gtrken

Active Member
Nov 4, 2007
384
160
43
66
Perth W Australia
On the social visa, now you come in via business visa mate. My agent has been great and I've referred them to people who successfully entered Indonesia in the last few days.

https://www.fabiovisatravel.com/business-visa-during-pandemic-covid19/ Has their what's app and they are very responsive, the prices fluctuate but at the moment are pretty reasonable. 4 juta new business visa, 800,000 extension you can extend it 5x. Now the deal is while you're on land during the pandemic, this get's made in to social visa after the initial 6 months (or whatever you get it's close to this) the new social visa is 3juta and 800,000 extension and goes for 5 months. Right now you can just keep rolling that.

Feel free to do some price comparisons, always seems to be someone popping their head up saying their agent is cheaper, but this one has some really handy contacts and is responsive as which is all I need. Others I've considered are Bali Legals and Easy Visa (in Sanur) I met the owner of Easy Visa once, she was pretty cool too.

While you're down under tell Mcgowan to hurry up and unlock the west will ya? Shoot me a PM if you need anymore help.

Am hearing ya. WA has been real lucky with keeping Covid out but it is a hiding to nothing.
It will be virtually impossible to keep the place locked down so my 2c is now take the jab, open the borders and let natural attrition work.
Our forbearers had the spanish flu, black plague , bubonic plague , leprosy , cholera et al and eventually mankind moves on.
This rattling around inside part of the country ( albeit a very big part) is making everyone stir crazy.

Cheers
Still not as cynical as Markit yet
Ken
 

RossM

Member
Jan 19, 2022
79
48
18
Hi everyone,

My wife (Indonesian) and I are in the very beginnings of our journey towards what will hopefully be a small property for ourselves in Bali. Ideally, we would like to be somewhere around Canggu, Ubud, or Bukit, but are also open to other places if the property catches our eye. While this is all still about 2 years away for us, we would like to find a 2 bedroom place (hopefully with a small pool!) for around $180k (USD). We will have about 25-30k (USD) for a down payment. If possible, we would like to use it as a rental property to cover some of the costs and help pay off the mortgage.

Of course we would prefer Hak Milik (in her name), but are not opposed to Hak Pakai as my understanding is that often these properties are more affordable. What are peoples' experiences with one or the other?

We are also considering buying a piece of land and then building, as my wife has family members who are contractors and do some work in Bali and we may be able to make the process more affordable this way. Has anyone done this? Did it come out to be more affordable?


I went through this exercise almost 20 years ago, and it's fraught with danger.

If the property is in your wife's name, take the precaution of taking a mortgage over it, for more than it's worth, to secure your investment.

Things may be rosy now, but relationships can break down, and when that happens in Indonesia, you have no friends. Think of all the ways you could be screwed, and multiply it by 10.

I escaped with some profit, but a fraction of what I should have made. Even lawyers are into the scams, and you won't have the protections you have in the west.

If I made the move again, I'd rent.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: tel522

JackStraw

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2017
431
265
63
I went through this exercise almost 20 years ago, and it's fraught with danger.

If the property is in your wife's name, take the precaution of taking a mortgage over it, for more than it's worth, to secure your investment.

Things may be rosy now, but relationships can break down, and when that happens in Indonesia, you have no friends. Think of all the ways you could be screwed, and multiply it by 10.

I escaped with some profit, but a fraction of what I should have made. Even lawyers are into the scams, and you won't have the protections you have in the west.

If I made the move again, I'd rent.

You don't have to rent. And you don't have to put the title in your wifes name either (nor should you ever!) Bule can own one piece of property in Indonesia. Look up Hak Pakai.
 

RossM

Member
Jan 19, 2022
79
48
18
You don't have to rent. And you don't have to put the title in your wifes name either (nor should you ever!) Bule can own one piece of property in Indonesia. Look up Hak Pakai.


It may have changed, but as a foreigner I couldn't own land when I lived there.

I owned the company that owned the land though, with my local partner at a 5% holding, not practical, or probably not allowable, if it's just a residential property.
 

JackStraw

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2017
431
265
63
Whatever you're smoking I'll have some. Never, now way, not in my life time. Bule can own (leasehold) an apartment worth IDR 5 billion + if the laws been ratified but we can't own dirt. And for me that's "property".

My name is on the title. My name and my name only.

Yes, it's technically only valid for 80 years and not Hak Milik but by that time, I can will the land to my children who are Indonesian citizens and will own it outright or I could also sell it before that time for a profit as well.

So it's as close to legally owning land in Indonesia as you can get.
 

JackStraw

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2017
431
265
63
It may have changed, but as a foreigner I couldn't own land when I lived there.

I owned the company that owned the land though, with my local partner at a 5% holding, not practical, or probably not allowable, if it's just a residential property.

Yes, establishing a PMA is a good option as well to acquire land but for those looking to buy residential property and don't trust a nominee, then the Hak Pakai is a good option. The value of the property must be 5 billion minimum and if it's not, then you simply pay the tax on 5 billion.
 

mugwump

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2011
1,083
193
63
seattle pekutatan
Yes, establishing a PMA is a good option as well to acquire land but for those looking to buy residential property and don't trust a nominee, then the Hak Pakai is a good option. The value of the property must be 5 billion minimum and if it's not, then you simply pay the tax on 5 billion.
I don't pretend to be an expert on this subject, but are you saying that NOW the value of the property held by a hak pakai must be valued at 5 billion juta?
 

RossM

Member
Jan 19, 2022
79
48
18
Whatever you're smoking I'll have some. Never, now way, not in my life time. Bule can own (leasehold) an apartment worth IDR 5 billion + if the laws been ratified but we can't own dirt. And for me that's "property".

That was/is my understanding of what a foreigner can own, and also my interpretation of 'property'.
 

JackStraw

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2017
431
265
63
I don't pretend to be an expert on this subject, but are you saying that NOW the value of the property held by a hak pakai must be valued at 5 billion juta?

Correct. If it's not, then you need to pay the tax on 5 billion jut.
 
  • Like
Reactions: matsaleh

John M

Member
Sep 29, 2020
70
51
18
Sanur, Bali
That was/is my understanding of what a foreigner can own, and also my interpretation of 'property'.

Actually it’s 5 billion for a single house in Bali and 2 billion for an apartment.

Note: There is no legal way of buying a house or apartment (you're buying the use rights only to be technically accurate) that's under the minimum regulated price because that particular clause of the regulation (Article 72) is there in order to reserve the cheaper houses and apartments for Indonesian citizens.
No doubt it sometimes gets done through the usual dodgy lawyers and notaries (who can thereby later become blackmailers) but the regulation specifically provides for a use rights deed to be declared defective, and the property returned to the ownership rights holder, if it's later found that the transfer of rights was not done 'in good faith' and 'not in accordance with the provisions of legislation'.

The applicable regulations about the forms of 'ownership' etc. can be found here (Google struggles with the translation due to the legalese) while the minimum value tables below are from the Regulation of the Minister of Agrarian and Spatial Planning/Head of National Land Agency Republic of Indonesia Number 29 Year 2016 and can be found here.


Apartments.pngSingle houses.png
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JackStraw

Reosoh

New Member
May 25, 2012
9
3
1
We are in the process of selling up in order to move back home after 9 years Bali. We have a Hak Milik property for sale in Ungasan which you may want to visit.

Check it out on:


Price is negotiable.