Limited Time IMB (building permit)

[Markit]

Had a very interesting chat with an estate agent today who had lots of interesting things to say, most of which I won't bore you with but of massive note was her comment that the government are now issuing limited time IMBs. In most cases that she's seen they were for only 5 years and as to the question of why; it would appear that in cases where the normal IMB can't be issued for instance if the land is listed as "Agrarian" or building has already commenced (or finished, for that matter) the powers that be will issue a 5 year IMB.

The fun starts here as apparently most people (bule) are so glad to get the coveted, expensive and much saught after document that they DON'T (or can't) EVEN FECKING READ IT!!!. This means, boys and girls, many people can now be the proud but unknowing owners of a 5 year long IMB. Your guess is as good as mine what will happen at the end of the 5 years but I'm sure as sure can be it's gonna be expensive. Check you docs people.

Oh, one other tidbit that I found interesting is that they are also only issuing IMBs if there is at least 1/2 meter clearance around the property - this means that in future there must be at least a meter clearance between adjoining buildings on different plots of land. Hoorray! no more dead cement block walls everywhere - I hope.

 

[frogusmaximus]

Ah, how coincidental.

Am considering buying a property in Bali and everything appears smooth until we noticed the limited term IMB. Now presumably all ten other properties in the same location also have a limited term permit, something we hope to start checking up on by visiting the neighbours, but can anyone comment on the following:

a. past experience with this situation
b. possibility of non-renewal when the term expires
c. likely cost of renewal
d. chance of converting to a permanent permit

Cheers

 

[davita]

The only time I've heard of this 5 year IMB is from the OP.

An IMB is a permit to build...when built it simply registers that it was built to the architectural specs presented...I have mine in front of me. If the building needs to be substantially modified it may need a new IMB.

I cannot comprehend why an IMB is issued for 5 years other than, if the building is not commenced within 5 years, the IMB expires...but that's just my supposition.

Anybody else help Mr Frog.

 

[Markit]

Ah, how coincidental.

Am considering buying a property in Bali and everything appears smooth until we noticed the limited term IMB. Now presumably all ten other properties in the same location also have a limited term permit, something we hope to start checking up on by visiting the neighbours, but can anyone comment on the following: Why would the neighboring houses all have the same IMB problem? Are they all part of a single development? Find a different house with an existing IMB and no problems.

a. past experience with this situation It's a new situation I can only suggest you ask a realestate agent - NOT your own.
b. possibility of non-renewal when the term expires I doubt it but why risk it - there's lots of great villas for sale in Bali - if you see a house you like make them an offer.
c. likely cost of renewal How long was that piece of string?
d. chance of converting to a permanent permit If you insist on sticking with the house you are talking about try making the conversion to a full IMB a condition of sale. No full IMB, no buyee houseee.

Cheers

 

[Mark]

The 'limited' reference in the IMB should be with respect to when one must commence construction. IMB is short for Izin Mendirikan Bangunan or permission to build a building. By definition and law it is required to start building, however once the building is constructed the 'permission' has fulfilled its purpose. I suspect that if one does not commence building within a certain time frame the permission to build expires and a reapplication is necessary. This would make sense as over time certain codes and regulations could change and ought to be applicable if a construction has not yet started.

 

[davita]

The 'limited' reference in the IMB should be with respect to when one must commence construction. IMB is short for Izin Mendirikan Bangunan or permission to build a building. By definition and law it is required to start building, however once the building is constructed the 'permission' has fulfilled its purpose. I suspect that if one does not commence building within a certain time frame the permission to build expires and a reapplication is necessary. This would make sense as over time certain codes and regulations could change and ought to be applicable if a construction has not yet started.

That's exactly my thinking Mark (post#3) and complies with similar regulations in many other countries...but I cannot find any information to support this.

 

[DenpasarHouse]

Just looking at my IMB issued in 2013 and there's 2 conditions that are time dependant.

1. The IMB becomes invalid if significant work isn't started within 6 months of the issue date of the IMB.
2. The IMB becomes invalid if the building itself isn't used for its intended purpose in 5 consecutive years.

A 5 year limited term IMB doesn't make any sense to me. I hope someone can explain it.

 

[YPDN]

My IMB is from March 2004 and there is no mention of lima tahun, etc (5 years). The buildings were completed within 12 months anyway, AFAIK.

My current best guess is that it's a positive step for the Government to pre-check what the eventual IMB will have on it. I can recall the Govt going around about 3 years ago to check the paperwork for a property because Villas were being rented out without Pondok Wisata. From there, I assume the Govt has said let's check all new buildings now and leave the older existing ones for later.

Also, I know that a Building Permit in parts of Australia basically says you have x years to commence the works (I think it is 2 years normally) and that you must continue on, to completion, showing reasonable progress.

Back to Bali - it could well be the Govt is applying more control on building, which I think is a good thing all round.

 

[frogusmaximus]

Thanks for the contributions so far but . . . as is the case here, and I'm new to the whole process, there is a little misunderstanding of the nature of the IMB.

The property we are interested in buying has been built and all documents are in order and the IMB plate present. But the temporary IMB is still an issue because

The Building Permit is not only a permit to carry out the initial building but it also continues through the building’s life as a Registration Document: The Building Permit defines (through all the associated documents that are lodged with the application) the specifications of the building that is or has been built and the purpose the building can be used for. (see odisebali dot com - cannot post a direct link due to this site restrictions)

As such, the temporary nature of the IMB - which in the OP's post, looks like becoming more common - is an issue for us.

The reason I mentioned the other neighbouring properties on the tract of land is me hazarding a guess that a temporary IMB status may have been issued due to location of the land rather than the plans of our targeted home.

The content of the post by YPDN would make sense to me: a temporary status gives the Government an opportunity to maintain control and ensure conditions do not change, but things are far from stable here of course, and as a prospective buyer one needs to know a temporary IMB permit can be extended/renewed.

 

[davita]

It appears to me that only you and Markit have knowledge about this 5 year IMB as it seems to be new. The rest of us, who have older IMB's, are only speculating. I suggest you ask Markit directly where he got his information and work from there.
Meanwhile, I'll investigate from my sources and get back with any news.

 

[frogusmaximus]

With regard to 'Markit', would love to buy a home here in Bali and have been looking for a year.

Maybe you have more cash than us but at our price range - which is generous by European standards - there is NOT a great range of homes available here at all; most are dull, overpriced and for long term rental only. It is a buyers market here in many ways; agents mail with villa offers at huge discounts, which suggests overvaluation and a lack of interest in second hand villas with poor design features. Long term leasehold property is not really an option for us as it is way overpriced, almost double what I'd say is a true value due to greed, the opportunities that the tourist market present and lack of understanding of the present value of long term income streams.

All based on my experiences and freethinking of course ;-). Happy to be sent some links to any good quality freehold property north of Gatot Subroto/Raya Canggu (have little desire to live in 'bule' designated areas with the rising criminal activity and traffic congestion). Cheers

 

[frogusmaximus]

Thanks Davita

We are off to see our second notary this week, described as 'the dog's bollocks' of Bali by our Balinese lawyer friend. Hopefully it will reveal a little more of the latest 'moves'.

In a related link, the first notary we visited said it was up to us to do the 'due dilligence'. I was a little surprised as would you not expect that to be part of the notary role, or at least offered as an additional service?

 

[davita]

Re: Mr Frog Post #11

If you want to live in areas that you've described be careful of access to the property. Balinese will never steal from you but, given the chance, they may block access until you employ half their family, or other pursuits, to relieve you of your savings.

 

[davita]

With regard to 'Markit', would love to buy a home here in Bali and have been looking for a year.

Maybe you have more cash than us but at our price range - which is generous by European standards - there is NOT a great range of homes available here at all; most are dull, overpriced and for long term rental only. It is a buyers market here in many ways; agents mail with villa offers at huge discounts, which suggests overvaluation and a lack of interest in second hand villas with poor design features. Long term leasehold property is not really an option for us as it is way overpriced, almost double what I'd say is a true value due to greed, the opportunities that the tourist market present and lack of understanding of the present value of long term income streams.

All based on my experiences and freethinking of course ;-). Happy to be sent some links to any good quality freehold property north of Gatot Subroto/Raya Canggu (have little desire to live in 'bule' designated areas with the rising criminal activity and traffic congestion). Cheers

If your price range is in the Rp Milyar 4.5 then my villa is for sale. It is a short walk south of Raya Canggu/Jl. Semer (Bali Buddha, Cafe Mocha, Plumbers Arms). No crime here to my knowledge. 2 story solid build 5 years ago, walled in small garden w/pool (2 are), 3 ensuite king-sized bedrooms, modern custom kitchen...see on Aji Gallery's wall advert, open/closed living room/dining with big windows, small gym and and sitting area on 2nd landing, balcony with peek-view to ocean and Uluwatu, air-conned throughout, furnished from Aji Gallery, Freehold but can be converted to Hak Pakai and possible rent back if not wanting immediate possession.

 

[frogusmaximus]

Thanks for the offer davita. Know the location well as I live round the corner. A bit out of our price range but to be fair, not really the location we are after given the utter nightmare on the roads around that area I experience every day on my daily commute to work.

 

[davita]

Thanks for the offer davita. Know the location well as I live round the corner. A bit out of our price range but to be fair, not really the location we are after given the utter nightmare on the roads around that area I experience every day on my daily commute to work.

No problem Mr frog ...just threw in a temptation and see how it transpires.

I spent this afternoon, in the Plumbers pub, quizzing realtors, and none has heard of any recent change to IMB. They know that some IMB's are issued temporarily because the gov't may have other ideas, like building a highway...so I suggest you ask Markit for more details as my source of realtors, who tally more than 30 years owning companies and property in Bali, don't have a clue what he is talking about.

Good luck with your commute elsewhere and please let us know where that is...:apathy:

edit: I can tell, by the tone of your posts, that you are smart enough to avoid many pitfalls. Nevertheless, it is a buyers market and prices asked are ridiculous until something else happens. I suggest you leave your budget in the background and look for your dream home, check out all the difficulties, check back with us then think about the value to your family as the last parameter. There is no metric in Bali to ascertain value.

 

[Steve Rossell]

I don't see the 6 month building permit here as being any different to many other countries, Oztralia for example.
Is it such a big deal?

 

[frogusmaximus]

Yes davita, one terrorist incident away from a tourism and associated industry collapse. The options of interest earning v rent savings have been factored and it is indeed a buyers market. We appear to have got a decent deal in a location we never thought we would be able to afford, given the rocketing land prices.

I'm in education, so i'll let you work out the options, ha. Don't really do the pub culture but the Plumbers Arms do offer a good homely meal when the rain clouds come and one is reminded of home.

 

[frogusmaximus]

Hi SR. I'm coming round to your point of view, which I hope to be confirmed by our third notaris this week. I'll report back what I discover for future reference. The slightly older property on the 'gang' where our target home is based, appear to have permanent IMB's which suggests we aren't quite the target of the Sunset Road extension quite yet, ;-)

Still, good to be cautious, and plenty of online examples of people who were not. My bule friend is constantly building property in that area. He gets his IMB after the work is complete - which I've read has become something of a standard - but not quite the risk I'd be taking if I were him. One local disagreement away from having a nightmare on his hands, though perhaps he has established his 'friends' by now.

 

[YPDN]

. . . our third notaris . . . appear to have permanent IMBs . . . good to be cautious . . . My bule friend

Frogus: there are a few points in your post (#19) and there is one Big One missing.

"Third Notaris": That should be ringing a few bells for you? What happened to #1 & #2? Will #3 be any better?

"appear to have permanent IMBs": I doubt you will have sighted them all which means you are believing what someone has told you - Big Mistake. See below.

"good to be cautious": Now you're talking.

"My bule friend": Hopefully he will be an invaluable assistance to you and your cause.

Missing Bit: Frogus, you MUST sight both the IMB and the Sertipikat before you sign anything or get emotional and proceed anyway. Insist on it. Ask for a photocopy. Then cross-check everything on them and also get your friend's input. Do not just (lazily) take the Notaris' advice. Also, get the Land Tax invoice and make sure the name on it matches directly to the IMB and the Sertipikat names. If it does not then someone hasn't done the 100% job in the past, and you need to have that detail tidy as well, before proceeding. Land Tax is easy to fix up, and if you do you will notice how unclean their data is. I doubt any data cleansing has gone on there, ever. Even the Land Allotment maps are inaccurate. It is appalling. I have seen it.
Just because you have an IMB doesn't mean it's 100% kosher. Same for the other main docs.

Caveat Emptor applies here big time. The r/e agent will say anything to get the sale. The Notaris cannot be trusted 100% - not even the revered ones - for both integrity and/or competence.
Then there are the expenses incurred when buying or selling and who pays for what. It's not an easy, fault-free process at all.