Indonesian airline safety - report on Australian TV

SusanSydney

ABC, Australia's national television station just aired a scary investigation into Indonesia's airline safety record. The program "Foreign Correspondent" discussed training, lack of safety checks and unsurprisingly the word "corruption" was even mentioned. A couple of experts who should know, both answered "Garuda" when asked which Indonesian airlines they would consider flying on. "Any others?" They were asked. "No". Air Asia of course, together with the Lion Air brands had the scariest comments made. The ABC website usually has the program transcripts up pretty quickly if you want to look for it tomorrow. I don't know whether you can actually watch the program itself by any means. However, i guess most of it is not new to people living over there!

spicyayam

Well I don't think it is much of a surprise to anyone living here as you say. There seem to be almost weekly reports of various aircraft related accidents.

geedee

spicyayam wroteWell I don't think it is much of a surprise to anyone living here as you say. There seem to be almost weekly reports of various aircraft related accidents.

What was a surprise to me was that they come to Australia to test on the simulators and fail but still end up flying on an Indonesian airline. I suppose that's what happens when you pay money under the table to get your license

davita

geedee wroteWhat was a surprise to me was that they come to Australia to test on the simulators and fail but still end up flying on an Indonesian airline. I suppose that's what happens when you pay money under the table to get your license

Who tests who in the flight simulators in Australia and fail...and they end up flying on an Indonesian airline? Also...do you have any reference or evidence that some pay to get their license. Are you suggesting Indonesian airline pilots are not qualified?

hecta

Strange? I read the report on the crash inquiry when it was released weeks ago. It just appeared on my google. The ABC must have been scratching for news and dragged this up.

spicyayam

It's interesting some of the reactions on the pilot's forum: Geoffrey Thomas Sinks To New Low - PPRuNe Forums

Markit

Call me cynical but I wonder sometimes if Australia was just off the border of say Germany or Canada how hard they would be thumping on their chests at how much bigger/better/safer/smarter everything is Oz was?

geedee

Who tests who in the flight simulators in Australia and fail...and they end up flying on an Indonesian airline? Also...do you have any reference or evidence that some pay to get their license. Are you suggesting Indonesian airline pilots are not qualified?

Have a read or watch. It's a reputable show on the ABC called foreign correspondent. Just have a search or maybe this link A lot of the experts including Indonesians say that the only Indonesian airline the would fly is Garuda. Obviously Indonesian airlines in general have an appalling safety record and only Garuda are allowed to fly into Europe and none allowed to fly into the US. They don't meet the safety standards. I also bet none have been trained to the standards you were. Foreign Correspondent

SusanSydney

Who tests who in the flight simulators in Australia and fail...and they end up flying on an Indonesian airline? Also...do you have any reference or evidence that some pay to get their license. Are you suggesting Indonesian airline pilots are not qualified?

Indonesia - False Economy - Foreign Correspondent - ABC Now the whole show is up on their website for viewing, together with the transcript. Among other things, they quote Chappy Hakim, Retired Air Marshall, former Chief of the Indonesian Air Force, and now a Senior Advisor to the Transport Ministry, as suggesting that there is corruption. Also they say they were told that an Inspector from the DGCA was paid money to pass a person who had earlier failed the simulator test in Australia due to being uncoordinated. They quote some guy who runs a website AirlineRatings.com as saying that "...Indonesia fails every single ICAO audit..." Suggestions that Indonesian pilots sometimes play games on the emergency frequency. All pretty scary stuff to a mug punter. But obviously Davita you are in a position to put these claims in perspective. Presumably no country has a spotless record in all of these areas, so whether to worry or not is hard to know if you're just a passenger. I was thinking of saving money next time I come, by using AirAsia but I won't be after watching that show!

davita

geedee wroteWhat was a surprise to me was that they come to Australia to test on the simulators and fail but still end up flying on an Indonesian airline. I suppose that's what happens when you pay money under the table to get your license

Thanks for the link geedee...it worked well. I thought from your above quote that you meant that Australians tested Indonesian pilots for their licence. It is the sovereign state of any country to issue the licence, not another country. The videa only said, in the opinion of the flight simulator instructor, they didn't pass his test. There was opinion that graft can get a licence but no evidence...hearsay. This doesn't mean that I don't agree that Indonesian Air Safety is abyssmal...and Air Asia in particular. I've written to Air Asia's Flight Safety Officer twice on observations I've made on their flights I've been on. No response but I keep my copy...if ever they have an accident in the future, and it has anything to do with my observations, that letter will go straight to the Accident Review Board. Just out of interest...about 36 years ago I did my B747-200 flight simulator training at Boeing Field in Seattle. We followed a Garuda crew every night as our training started at midnight. The same Boeing instructor trained the Garuda crew then us...all British or Australians. He always showed exasperation then relief when he saw us. One weekend he took us out on his boat into the Puget Sound for some fishing and he commented he'd never seen such disorganised and disfunctional crew members as those from Garuda.....and pledged he'd never fly with them....but that was a long time ago. My own view is not only some Indonesia pilots, but the system of air traffic control and maintenance and general awareness for safety is disfunctional. They need outside help as did Singapore in its airline infancy where it employed pilots with many hours experience...now look at Singapore's airline industry! So far, from my observation, Indonesia airlines only employ foreigners with very little experience, and clearly as in the case of AA 5801, they are being trained and gaining hours 'on the job'. If any readers have kids (boys or girls) interested in aviation they should promote them for that career...there will be so much demand in the future for pilots the expansion of the airline industry will not cope...much the same for all other jobs in the airlines. BTW just seen news that 2 Lion Air clipped each others wings on the ground in Jakarta yesterday...2nd time in a month. edit as just saw SS post: I'm not saying that Indonesia is downright unsafe..it could be better. I'd still rather take Air Asia (just went to/fro Jakarta a couple of weeks ago) than take a gojeck from my house to/fro the airport...in either city...:icon_wink:

Steve Rossell

Just returned from Singapore on an Air Asia flight. Pretty uneventful flight but I did feel like telling the stick and rudder man to keep his training wheels on for a bit longer.

davita

Steve Rossell wroteJust returned from Singapore on an Air Asia flight. Pretty uneventful flight but I did feel like telling the stick and rudder man to keep his training wheels on for a bit longer.

hahaha did you check the pilots...probably a young Aussie paying to get his flying hours up so he can get a job with one of the major airlines...happens a lot. But you did remind me of the B52 bombers that had retractable wheels at the end of the wings...I initially thought they were trainee wheels. The Russians also had their IL62 (a look-alike VC10)....which had a retractable tailwheel. I thought this allowed the pilot to land flat....and not nose-up...:icon_e_surprised: i.e. like a Harrier VTOL....he comes over the runway and lands vertically.

davita

My post #8 recommends to parents an airline career for their offspring to consider. This recent report from the South China Morning Post (SCMP) states the future needs for many pilots in China and how expat Captains earn salaries of US$20,000 a month and gratuitous working environments....including fast-track promotions....wow! China lures foreign pilots to mainland with big paychecks: Korea becomes the biggest victim | South China Morning Post

hecta

LOL, I thought the bonus was for staying in the air!

geedee

My post #8 recommends to parents an airline career for their offspring to consider. This recent report from the South China Morning Post (SCMP) states the future needs for many pilots in China and how expat Captains earn salaries of US$20,000 a month and gratuitious working environments....including fast-track promotions....wow! China lures foreign pilots to mainland with big paychecks: Korea becomes the biggest victim | South China Morning Post

You are correct . A Capt I know pretty well left Qantas 2 years ago and moved to China Southern he flys an Airbus 320 or 330. He set up his own company so he contracts himself to minimize paying tax. He was initially based in Melbourne but I think Sydney now. Another attraction was the routes which were more attractive to him than Qantas. The recruitment guy or chief pilot from China Southern and China Eastern were both Aussies so he had offers for both. The salary you spoke about is spot on he told me US $5,000 per week I am not sure if that included bonuses if you stay for the year.