Synaptics
Hi everyone,Having worked in Bali for a few years in the tourism business we (my Girlfriend and I, both European) are now considering opening up our own place, a small niche market restaurant to be specific. Even though we have worked in SE-Asia for almost 20 years combined we are not quite sure which steps to take first. [B]Our idea was as follows:[/B]1: Find a trustworthy notaris and lawyer (from different companies, without informing the notaris about the lawyer to avoid conflict of interest) 2: Find a suitable plot of land/building (2-3 are, lease 20-25 years) 3: Get the notaris to set up a PT for us and get the lawyer to double check everything4: Get IMB5: Get liquor license6: Speak to the Banjar/Adat to make sure there will be as few problems on that side as possible7: Start building/rebuilding8: Find and train staff, ceremoni, open[B]Our questions are: [/B]Are we forgetting some vital licenses/permissions? Is the order of things correct?Thank you in advance for your help!
Markit
If it was me or my money I'd first find an Indonesian with a restaurant that wants to lease his premises. Your max investment: the leasehold (one year?) to test out your "niche" idea. The rest of your list you can do as and when [B][I][U]it works out[/U][/I][/B].90% of restaurants go broke within 2 years, so save your money and find something else to do that the 20 million other people that have come to Bali in the last 2 years haven't also really wanted to do.Bali really, really doesn't need another place to eat or/and drink. Really!
Synaptics
Dear Markit,Thank you for your reply, its always nice with some external input to get a check your own sanity :) Let me see if I understand you correctly, you would suggest that we:-Lease a restaurant for a year without actually setting up our own company-Make an exclusive deal with the owner that we can continue leasing the place after end of year 1-Renovate/rebuild the place to fit our desired image-Train the staff to the level that we aim for -Open it up, see if it is running and extend the lease if it is in fact runningI mean, it is actually not a bad idea, since of course this significantly reduces the apparent risks, but possibly adds a few new risks as well. One problem would be to ensure legally that we have the first right to extend the lease to the same rate (or a naturally inflated rate) as initially negotiated. At the end of year 1 the owner could theoretically take our renovated buildings, concept, menu, well trained staff and continue to run the place to his own profits. I do not see that we would have any legal grounds to keep the place. As far as I see we would have to work without KITAS for that year, and since the company is solely in the name of the Balinese owner we would have a high risk of loosing the whole thing. What do you think? The most important lesson I have learned in the few years I have been in SEA is to trust no one, foreigner or local when money gets involved. Regarding your comment about 90% of restaurants failing, its true that a lot do fail, but both of us have experience in the restaurant business and know the risks involved. I also firmly believe that with good organization, passion and lots(!) of hard work the risks become smaller. If anyone else in there has some comments to my initial post, please do not hesitate to drop a line :)
Markit
Dear Markit,Thank you for your reply, its always nice with some external input to get a check your own sanity :) [COLOR=#ff0000]If you think my reply means that you're sane then you really do need help.[/COLOR]Let me see if I understand you correctly, you would suggest that we:-Lease a restaurant for a year without actually setting up our own company [COLOR=#ff0000]Yup[/COLOR]-Make an exclusive deal with the owner that we can continue leasing the place after end of year 1 [COLOR=#ff0000]Why would you?[/COLOR]-Renovate/rebuild the place to fit our desired image[COLOR=#ff0000] Most resto "atmosphere" is paper-mache bullshit if your food is good they will sit on the floor to eat it. [/COLOR]-Train the staff to the level that we aim for [COLOR=#ff0000]see previous answer[/COLOR]-Open it up, see if it is running and extend the lease if it is in fact running[COLOR=#ff0000] Yup[/COLOR]I mean, it is actually not a bad idea, since of course this significantly reduces the apparent risks, but possibly adds a few new risks as well. [COLOR=#ff0000]Ta da! Send 1 wheel of 3/5 year old Gouda cheese. [/COLOR]One problem would be to ensure legally that we have the first right to extend the lease to the same rate (or a naturally inflated rate) as initially negotiated. [COLOR=#ff0000]If the idea works it won't matter much where it is. [/COLOR]At the end of year 1 the owner could theoretically take our renovated buildings, concept, menu, well trained staff and continue to run the place to his own profits. I do not see that we would have any legal grounds to keep the place. [COLOR=#ff0000]Have you been into an Indonesian run resto? Generally they have no clue hence every good going concern here is Bule owned/run. Your problem will be fighting off the locals if it does work - they will close you down. [/COLOR]As far as I see we would have to work without KITAS for that year, and since the company is solely in the name of the Balinese owner we would have a high risk of loosing the whole thing. What do you think? [COLOR=#ff0000]As complete concept your risks are less than if you go your original route. [/COLOR]The most important lesson I have learned in the few years I have been in SEA is to trust no one, foreigner or local when money gets involved. [COLOR=#ff0000]Then you are fucked already. [/COLOR]Regarding your comment about 90% of restaurants failing, its true that a lot do fail, but both of us have experience in the restaurant business and know the risks involved. I also firmly believe that with good organization, passion and lots(!) of hard work the risks become smaller. [COLOR=#ff0000]God I hate young people!!! You 2 have been watching way too much American TV. The risks inherent in any undertaking are what they are regardless of what you wish or do. If I step in front of the No. 9 bus the risks of me ending up as a road pizza are not lessened by my belief in Zoltan, my eating spinach or my love of small brown animals. [/COLOR]If anyone else in there has some comments to my initial post, please do not hesitate to drop a line :)[/QUOTE][COLOR=#ff0000]Knock yourselves out![/COLOR]
davita
Hi Synaptics....welcome to the forum and a happy new year!If you need more advice on business or even directions on travel...you now know who to contact...:cheerful:
Markit
Davita care to explain that statement? If you are being sarcastic, [B]shut the feck up[/B] - you aint adding anything to the the sum of knowledge. If you are being truthful, [B]shut the feck up[/B] - it's the superfluous waffle of someone that's too bored/boring to have anything of real value to add.If you are trying to cause trouble, [B]shut the feck up[/B] - you aint any good at it and would be better advised to go back and read my past posts for enlightenment.Have a good day :icon_smile:Markit
Synaptics
Dear Markit,Thank you for your invaluable advise. Now, if anyone else have any input it would be much appreciated.
davita
Davita care to explain that statement? If you are being sarcastic, [B]shut the feck up[/B] - you aint adding anything to the the sum of knowledge. If you are being truthful, [B]shut the feck up[/B] - it's the superfluous waffle of someone that's too bored/boring to have anything of real value to add.If you are trying to cause trouble, [B]shut the feck up[/B] - you aint any good at it and would be better advised to go back and read my past posts for enlightenment.Have a good day :icon_smile:Markit[/QUOTE]I don't explain...if you don't get it ...whooosh!I think you are beginning to believe the bottom line to ALL your posts. Trust me...you are NOT God! You may be correct in what you say but....you're simply rude; especially to those that have just joined and not familiar with your style of debate.....:adoration:
ferdie
Markit was just being too conservative about life and work in Bali, he had watched too many people failed on their attempt to chased their dream in Bali:boxing:in my opinion, anyone has the right to gamble in their life, as long as you can take the loss if it occurs:drunk::drunk::drunk:Just kidding, make sure you had done the market survey first to make sure you got what it takes to survived the first 2 or 3 years, Indo crowds in general has a very short memory and get bored easily. After that another big face lift perhaps?:icon_e_wink:And also, you'll need a local partner too, the law in the F&B industry still requires expat to partner up with locals as far as I can remember in the medium or small size business.Or you could just play the nominee game and gamble your business on trust?Anyway, to complete all of the process in your post, it would take at least 6 months, that did not include enough time to do the survey and partner searching.Oh, you should put an emphasis on your role written on your work permit, make sure the formal role has enough power for you to do what you want. In another post, a member complaints that the role of commissioner in their PT didn't allow his husband to be involved in daily operations:disgust:
bakung
At the end of year 1 the owner could theoretically take our renovated buildings, concept, menu, well trained staff and continue to run the place to his own profits. I do not see that we would have any legal grounds to keep the place. Have you been into an Indonesian run resto? Generally they have no clue hence every good going concern here is Bule owned/run. [COLOR="#FF0000"]Your problem will be fighting off the locals if it does work - they will close you down.[/COLOR]And within 3 months there will be another 6 of whatever your idea is opened up by Balinese that have empty buildings that they cant rent out or see your idea in action (whether your premises are busy with customers or not ) because they auto think it will make easy money for them and then your niche becomes overkill as the customer gambles on which one to go into and guaranteed the Balinese ones will undercut your prices and use guiding / pay taxi drivers etc to maneuver customers away from yours to theirs etc and the bad experience ( unless they go into the original one ) will spread like wildfire about that kind of establishment and boom your gone. Also taking a one year lease is just setting it up for them whether it works or not ( you will renovate etc so they win win win win and if your idea does happen to work then they win win win even more as they will jack the rent up if they let you extend ??? ) take a minimum 5 year and over rent it if it does not work out.But the advice i would give is take a good look round and see all the NICHE ideas that have been and gone as it is a regular thing here as the dreamers refuse to take on board the reality of doing business in Asia IT IS FECKING HARD WORK unless your one of the kind that throws money into it just to say i have a business in Bali etc.[COLOR="#FF0000"]90% of restaurants go broke within 2 years, so save your money and find something else to do that the 20 million other people that have come to Bali in the last 2 years haven't also really wanted to do.[/COLOR]
bakung
I don't explain...if you don't get it ...whooosh!I think you are beginning to believe the bottom line to ALL your posts. Trust me...you are NOT God! You may be correct in what you say but....you're simply rude; especially to those that have just joined and not familiar with your style of debate.....:adoration:[/QUOTE]Davita, did these Canadians give you a full blood transfusion when you left Gods country to live there ?. Pretty mild retort from a Scotsman come on give it some :mad:
davita
Davita, did these Canadians give you a full blood transfusion when you left Gods country to live there ?. Pretty mild retort from a Scotsman come on give it some :mad:[/QUOTE]I'm so sorry to disappoint bakung......my only excuse is, after 2 months, I still have this cough which sometimes causes me to faint...so I cannot get too excited.I've seen...lets numerate...2 x internists, pulmanoligist, ENT specialist, cardioligist, neuroligist ...I've had 2 Xrays, echocardiogram, blood checks....and am still coughing and fainting.When I'm fully recovered I hope I can produce to your expectation...:icon_razz:
Smoke
my only excuse is, after 2 months, I still have this cough which sometimes causes me to faint...so I cannot get too excited[/QUOTE]Maybe that new wine your boasting about ? could have something in it your body is rejecting ?
davita
Maybe that new wine your boasting about ? could have something in it your body is rejecting ?[/QUOTE]Thanks Smoke....yours is probably the best expert advice I've received so far...and free. I'll be sure to investigate...as soon as I've finished the case that I recently bought...:icon_mrgreen:
Smoke
Hope you get better real soon !
spicyayam
The secret of making your own business a success is to only work half days. Yes, that is correct, you need to work only half days to make your business a success. And the true beauty of the system is that it doesn't matter which twelve hours you choose.
gilbert de jong
Hi everyone,Having worked in Bali for a few years in the tourism business we (my Girlfriend and I, both European) are now considering opening up our own place, a small niche market restaurant to be specific. Even though we have worked in SE-Asia for almost 20 years combined we are not quite sure which steps to take first. [B]Our idea was as follows:[/B]1: Find a trustworthy notaris and lawyer (from different companies, without informing the notaris about the lawyer to avoid conflict of interest) 2: Find a suitable plot of land/building (2-3 are, lease 20-25 years) 3: Get the notaris to set up a PT for us and get the lawyer to double check everything4: Get IMB5: Get liquor license6: Speak to the Banjar/Adat to make sure there will be as few problems on that side as possible7: Start building/rebuilding8: Find and train staff, ceremoni, open[B]Our questions are: [/B]Are we forgetting some vital licenses/permissions? Is the order of things correct?Thank you in advance for your help![/QUOTE]You and girlfriend have worked on Bali for several years already, so basically you should know how things work here on Bali...From reading your post however I doubt that you do, and therefor I doubt you can turn your idea into a succes. This is just my personal observation/opinion, and you're asking specific things so I will answer those.1. set-up company, get visa and workpermits in order. there are companies who can take care of this for you, incl. getting all the neccessary licenses to legally operate a resto.2. find resto to take over, or start from scratch (land-notaris-imb-build)3. see 14. see 15. see 16. depends on location if that is needed or not, if needed it should be done before signing any papers/contracts regarding lease of resto or land7. see 28. find trained staff.Markit advice "testing the waters for a year" is imho a good one...Illegal, but good.
joji gulapetis
I'm so sorry to disappoint bakung......my only excuse is, after 2 months, I still have this cough which sometimes causes me to faint...so I cannot get too excited.I've seen...lets numerate...2 x internists, pulmanoligist, ENT specialist, cardioligist, neuroligist ...I've had 2 Xrays, echocardiogram, blood checks....and am still coughing and fainting.When I'm fully recovered I hope I can produce to your expectation...:icon_razz:[/QUOTE]Davita, where did you go to see your cardiologist and neurologist? (sorry folks a bit off the thread, but it tends to happen with age) :topsy_turvy:
mugwump
Hi Synaptics,Bali does have a lot of restaurants as had been pointed out, but damned few reasonably priced good ones. this is especially true as it applies to fish.You may have noticed Dorado referred to by several erroneous names, but Dorado just the same, and usually imported. The reason for this is because of the lack of proper care of local fish after being caught with an emphasis on poor refrigeration if any. Perhaps you have had experience in this specific area of the restaurant business, but if not; beware. Seldom do you find good tasty shrimp due to the fact that foreign fish brokers get the pick of the crop at the fish farms and what is left goes to the super market and sits in water that was ice hours before.Good luck to you. Obviously you have given some thought to this topic and deserve decent comments.
bakung
Hi Synaptics,Bali does have a lot of restaurants as had been pointed out, but damned few reasonably priced good ones. this is especially true as it applies to fish.You may have noticed Dorado referred to by several erroneous names, but Dorado just the same, and usually imported. The reason for this is because of the lack of proper care of local fish after being caught with an emphasis on poor refrigeration if any. Perhaps you have had experience in this specific area of the restaurant business, but if not; beware. Seldom do you find good tasty shrimp due to the fact that foreign fish brokers get the pick of the crop at the fish farms and what is left goes to the super market and sits in water that was ice hours before.Good luck to you. Obviously you have given some thought to this topic and [COLOR="#FF0000"]deserve decent comments[/COLOR].[/QUOTE]As long as they are REALISTIC / truthful / to the point / achievable / points out the pitfalls as there are too many to sit typing for hours on an internet forum ?. You have to remember these kind of destinations bring out the MLK affect in people and there is nothing more sad than seeing a person being told a thousand times I TOLD YOU SO.
