Retirement Visa from Australia to Bali

homeinbali

Thanks again SusanSydney, so do you know how it works if you do 6 months in Bali and 6 months in Australia leading up to your pension age and ongoing?

davita

homeinbali wroteThanks again SusanSydney, so do you know how it works if you do 6 months in Bali and 6 months in Australia leading up to your pension age and ongoing?

If you are contemplating the above 6 months continuous in Bali then a Sosbud, with extensions, is a cheaper visa to achieve that. Markit's agent can advise and sponsor. The only requirement is if you leave at any time during the 6 months the Sosbud becomes invalid and has to be re-acquired.

geedee

Markit wroteSo if you work for just 10 years in Oz you are eligible for a full pension? Wow! How easy is it to get a work permit?

Sorry you need to be of good character.

geedee

no.idea wroteNo problem, however keep in mind I have a head very similar to a bull mastiff chewing ice blocks.

hang on Bull Mastiff look good

geedee

What a timely thread On tonight's " A Current Affair" Just finished now a story about Australian pensions and how its being rorted and the age may be lifted till 70 Pension Shake Up

davita

homeinbali wroteThankyou for your answer, so is that $1,200-$1,400 each year you apply for the ITAS through the agent? We are travelling over in May so can visit some agents then.

There is no set fee...agents seem to charge what they think they can get. It is an annual fee until you apply for the Kitap. The multi-entry permit is now mandatory and co-incides with the Kitas but is usually separately costed. I'd PM Markit for his agent's contact.....sounds like a good deal. edit: I should clarify...the Government has a set fee for a Kitas and for a 1 year MERP but, as a retirement kitas is mandated to be applied using a registered agent for that purpose, they can charge anything they like. I suggest shopping around. A spousal kitas, on the other hand, can be DIY and is considerably cheaper.

SusanSydney

Markit wroteSo if you work for just 10 years in Oz you are eligible for a full pension? Wow! How easy is it to get a work permit?

I haven't checked if you would get a full pension after being here for 10 years. But I do know that, if you did, you certainly wouldn't be able to take it [B]all[/B] and live overseas then. Because there is a thing called "Proportional portability" which kicks in if you haven't spent 35 years of your working life here. So after the first 26 weeks overseas they start reducing it based on a formula that includes how much of your working life was spent in Oz. They introduced this some years ago using the 25 year rule, and then more recently changed it to 35 years! Until the 1980's, that rule didn't apply, so we had many Greek and Italian migrants who had come out post war, worked all of their working lives here, and when they got their pension, just went to retire back home. Which was fair enough. Those are the ones you'd have tapped for a loan during the Greek financial problems - all those lovely Australian dollars coming in to their bank accounts regularly! I wish it was still that easy. I'm just going to bed now but tomorrow I will do some rough calculations for Geedee and his wife as an example (since he was so kind as to tell me that he's been in Oz for 30 years, and his wife has been here for 14 years). Watch this space!

geedee

SusanSydney wroteI haven't checked if you would get a full pension after being here for 10 years. But I do know that, if you did, you certainly wouldn't be able to take it [B]all[/B] and live overseas then. Because there is a thing called "Proportional portability" which kicks in if you haven't spent 35 years of your working life here. So after the first 26 weeks overseas they start reducing it based on a formula that includes how much of your working life was spent in Oz. They introduced this some years ago using the 25 year rule, and then more recently changed it to 35 years! Until the 1980's, that rule didn't apply, so we had many Greek and Italian migrants who had come out post war, worked all of their working lives here, and when they got their pension, just went to retire back home. Which was fair enough. Those are the ones you'd have tapped for a loan during the Greek financial problems - all those lovely Australian dollars coming in to their bank accounts regularly! I wish it was still that easy. I'm just going to bed now but tomorrow I will do some rough calculations for Geedee and his wife as an example (since he was so kind as to tell me that he's been in Oz for 30 years, and his wife has been here for 14 years). Watch this space!

Thank you am very interested Also is it better to get divorced so that you have advantage of getting double pension.Not that i would dream of ripping off the Govt Wife obviously not 14 but been in Australia 14 years Indonesian passport. Will this have effect on a pension for her?

homeinbali

Markit wroteMy agent has just completed the visa for my wife and he has done mine several times over the years. The going price now is 8 juta (million Rupiah) plus 2 juta for the multi entry and exit visa. All you will need is a valid passport and 2 pictures and some dosh - oh, and the agent in Singapore will need S$280 for his services too. I will happily put you in contact with my agent as you won't find anyone cheaper/better on the island and lots worse.

Thankyou for that, would like the details of your agent, as I said we are over in May, staying 40 minutes outside of Ubud, Gianyar way. We could make contact with him/her then unless everything can be done online? On a separate note we took much interest in your Island Hopping on a Scooter post, shame the photo's did not include any of those nice looking women, my husband said!

Fred2

Thai visa forum had a good thread some years back and someone from centrelink posted contact numbers, you won't know till you apply pension. They keep changing the rules.

klaatu

Markit wroteMy agent has just completed the visa for my wife and he has done mine several times over the years. The going price now is 8 juta (million Rupiah) plus 2 juta for the multi entry and exit visa. All you will need is a valid passport and 2 pictures and some dosh - oh, and the agent in Singapore will need S$280 for his services too. I will happily put you in contact with my agent as you won't find anyone cheaper/better on the island and lots worse.

does your agent also do family kitas [kitas ikut isteri) ?

homeinbali

no.idea wroteBefore this thread goes to **** like all our threads normally do, let us stop asking questions about Gee Dee's 14 year old wife. The info by SusanSydney is spot on. I know all the facts on this and it is great to see someone posting the real story and the correct rules. I could kiss you SusanSydney, it is refreshing to see someone posting facts not bloody rumours. In my case by the time I qualify for the Oz aged Pension I will have lived in Indonesia for 20 years. So I have to return to Oz for the 2 year qualification period. I became aware of this 5 years ago and to offset that I started a cooking school in my hotel. The cooking school is currently taking $100,000 per year. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

So will you still return to Australia for the said 2 years or hopefully not have to bother? I think we would have to or maybe we could start up a cooking school too!

homeinbali

SusanSydney wroteCan i just clarify something - when you say "we are both Australians" and ask "is there a time limit to have lived in Aus before receiving the pension" does that mean you have lived in Aus all your lives? Reason i ask is that if you have lived Elsewhere for instance, for say, 20 years, and therefore between the ages of 16 and 65 you have not been in Aus for a total of 35 years then your pension may be reduced. And of course if you haven't lived in Aus for at least 10 years of that time, you may not qualify for an Aus pension at all. In reading your question at first, i assumed you were asking about the time limit for being able to take your pension overseas, because that's where the two years comes in.

Thankyou so much for all the help, certainly opens your eyes up to what is involved, I think the coming back for the 2 years is a pain in the a***, finding somewhere to live, maybe work, vehicle etc..and to make out that you will be staying in Australia when you know yourself for a fact that asap you want to get back to your home in Bali! I believe this is all something we can overcome and after looking at finances I believe we can manage to live over in Bali for the time before our return to Australia is needed. It's a pain as I said, and as you have said other countries don't seem to worry if you live outside of the pension giving country.

SusanSydney

skinning cats - certainly! I still have no idea as to whether I will qualify for any pension at all based on the Income and Assets test once I turn 67. But then, I won't need a pension then will I, because I'll be better off than I thought? And so the rules about "portability" of the pension won't matter - cos there'll be no pension for me. It's particularly relevant for those of us who live in areas where the value of real estate has gone up in Oz over the last few years. My leaking, ex housing commission, clad cottage which you wouldn't pay me for because it would cost you too much for the asbestos removalists to get it off the block, sits on land I think might be worth about $Aus700,000 at the moment. Which means that if, [I]as I suspect[/I], once I stop living in it it is no longer exempt from the Pensions Assets Test, it [I]may[/I] disqualify me for a pension completely. I will take that kiss when I next come to Bali please no.idea.

no.idea wroteBefore this thread goes to **** like all our threads normally do, let us stop asking questions about Gee Dee's 14 year old wife. The info by SusanSydney is spot on. I know all the facts on this and it is great to see someone posting the real story and the correct rules. I could kiss you SusanSydney, it is refreshing to see someone posting facts not bloody rumours. In my case by the time I qualify for the Oz aged Pension I will have lived in Indonesia for 20 years. So I have to return to Oz for the 2 year qualification period. I became aware of this 5 years ago and to offset that I started a cooking school in my hotel. The cooking school is currently taking $100,000 per year. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

no.idea

homeinbali wroteSo will you still return to Australia for the said 2 years or hopefully not have to bother? I think we would have to or maybe we could start up a cooking school too!

I have no intention of returning to Oz. There are ways around having to do it. In another rare moment when my beer was empty I started a cycle tour business. The outlay was a few helmets, from the first week it earnt equivalent to the weekly Oz pension. There are business opportunities all over this island. it is a simple matter of keeping your eyes open and your brain working. I live 60 metres from the beach. The locals clean the beach every day. They rake up the seaweed dumped by the high tide and bury it. There is a business in mulching and selling that as fertiliser. I have another 6 ideas that I know will work but running this hotel keeps me busy enough at this stage.

SusanSydney

Now this is a very interesting question because Centrelink have some weird definitions which can bring you unstuck. Suppose you live in Bali for 10 years. Then you come to live in Oz for two years with the intention of returning to Bali after the two years so that you can take your pension with you. I don't want to scare anyone but here's something I've found out while browsing. Centrelink use your "intention" as part of the definition of being an "Australian Resident" or not. So, unbelievably, If when you sit down with Centrelink to apply for your pension, you disclose that you only came back for two years [I][B]for the purpose of qualifying for a pension[/B][/I], they can .... wait for it, decline your pension on the grounds that [I][B]you are not an "Australia Resident".[/B][/I] What, you say? They can't do that! Well, I don't know how often it actually happens because it's pretty damn tough but here's a couple of quotes I found on the subject: [FONT=Arial Black][SIZE=2][COLOR="#0000FF"]Answering enquiries from former residents If people overseas ask about getting a pension on return to Australia, great care should be taken to give them complete and accurate information about the residence provisions and their subsequent portability entitlements. A claim for pension can be lodged by a former resident ONLY IF, on the evidence available, there is a clear intention to remain permanently in Australia. A person who intends to return to Australia for a 24 month period only would not be an 'Australian resident' as per SSAct subsection 7(2). It is important to inform a recipient that there is NO discretionary power allowing portability of pensions during the first 24 months of resumed Australian residency. However, payment may be suspended for the period of the short overseas absence and does not have to be reclaimed on return to Australia. A short absence from Australia (as long as the person is still classed as an Australian resident) should not impact on the end date of this 24 month residence period (i.e. the absence still counts towards the person's 24 month residence period). Act reference: SSAct section 7(2) An Australian resident…, section 1220(1) to (2) No portability where claim based on short residence [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] I copied this from the "Guide to Social Security Law" which is, I believe, technically not issued to the public since it is designed as a guide to staff implementing the regulations. I believe this is the source of some of the confusion that reigns in Facebook (there's a discussion on FB at the moment where one bloke is asking others Aus expats in Bali to ring the Centrelink office and ask them what the ruling is. He says, ask them what they're eligible for and post it on the site. Because people are getting conflicting info and it's frustrating them. I think people need to be very aware that once you have told the Australian Govt something, they know it. And they know it forever. What I mean is that if you give them the impression that you're only home for two years [I][B]in order to qualify for a pension[/B][/I] and you're unlucky and get a staff member who has read that guideline and tries to refuse your pension on that grounds, yes you can appeal any decision to refuse you a pension because the nature of our safety net is we tend not to leave people to starve. But I certainly wouldn't like to wait for all the appeal process to be gone through to get that pension back after they've refused me one. Let alone all the stress!

homeinbali wroteThankyou so much for all the help, certainly opens your eyes up to what is involved, I think the coming back for the 2 years is a pain in the a***, finding somewhere to live, maybe work, vehicle etc..and to make out that you will be staying in Australia when you know yourself for a fact that asap you want to get back to your home in Bali! I believe this is all something we can overcome and after looking at finances I believe we can manage to live over in Bali for the time before our return to Australia is needed. It's a pain as I said, and as you have said other countries don't seem to worry if you live outside of the pension giving country.

SusanSydney

[b]Example of Pension Portability calculation[/b] This example is provided assuming all sorts of complicated things. It assumes that you're eligible for a [I][B]full Australian Age Pension[/B][/I] because you have passed the Assets and the Income tests and other tests. I can't give advice about that but obviously if you google it you will get a thousand sites of financial advisers, journalists etc wanting to give you an idea - as well as the actual Centrelink site itself!! It assumes that you are currently at pension age. It assumes that you are applying today and not in 5 years' time because certainly they will change the rules by then! If, for instance, geedee was of pension age today and had been in Oz for only 30 of the required 35 years of his working life, and IF he qualified for a full basic pension of about $15451 per annum in Oz, then , using the Proportional Portabilty Calculator, he would get $13,280 in Bali. But if at the time of applying he has been in Oz for the full 35 years, then he would get full portability (taking in to account that extras are not paid Overseas, like Telephone Allowance, Rent Assistance, etc) I've overpromised on doing a calculation for geedee's wife. This is because I have no idea, not having researched it, whether her pension would be reduced [B][I]even in Australia,[/I][/B] because of her length of residence. I only know about the Portability side of things, not the actual qualification for a pension in the first place. However, that being said, IF his wife was of pension age today and IF she otherwise qualified for a full rather than a reduced pension if paid in Australia, , then her calculation at 14 years of Australian residence would be $6217.51 in Bali. If she had been in Oz for 19 years, and for some reason qualified for a full pension of, say, $15451 when in Oz , then the portable part would be $8424. [COLOR="#0000FF"]This is the formula for the Portability calculation: The pensions portability rate calculator The pensions portability rate calculator is in the SSAct section 1221-A1 and is used to calculate the proportional rate. The following formula shows how the rate is derived: Overseas rate = [COLOR="#FF8C00"](P × Q) ÷ 420,[/COLOR] where: P = the yearly income and asset tested rate payable in Australia (the NOTIONAL DOMESTIC RATE), Q = the number of months of AWLR PLUS one month, but not exceeding 420, and 420 = 35 years expressed in months. Example: A recipient with a yearly income and asset tested rate of $3,500 and 18 years working life in Australia would get an overseas rate of $1,808.30 a year [(3,500 × 217) ÷ 420].[/COLOR] [COLOR="#A52A2A"]And no geedee you would not get divorced and remarried to in any way change your status with Centrelink. In general, they know everything about us all anyway and they cannot be tricked or manipulated in any way. [/COLOR]

geedee

SusanSydney wroteThis example is provided assuming all sorts of complicated things. It assumes that you're eligible for a [I][B]full Australian Age Pension[/B][/I] because you have passed the Assets and the Income tests and other tests. I can't give advice about that but obviously if you google it you will get a thousand sites of financial advisers, journalists etc wanting to give you an idea - as well as the actual Centrelink site itself!! It assumes that you are currently at pension age. It assumes that you are applying today and not in 5 years' time because certainly they will change the rules by then! If, for instance, geedee was of pension age today and had been in Oz for only 30 of the required 35 years of his working life, and IF he qualified for a full basic pension of about $15451 per annum in Oz, then , using the Proportional Portabilty Calculator, he would get $13,280 in Bali. But if at the time of applying he has been in Oz for the full 35 years, then he would get full portability (taking in to account that extras are not paid Overseas, like Telephone Allowance, Rent Assistance, etc) I've overpromised on doing a calculation for geedee's wife. This is because I have no idea, not having researched it, whether her pension would be reduced [B][I]even in Australia,[/I][/B] because of her length of residence. I only know about the Portability side of things, not the actual qualification for a pension in the first place. However, that being said, IF his wife was of pension age today and IF she otherwise qualified for a full rather than a reduced pension if paid in Australia, , then her calculation at 14 years of Australian residence would be $6217.51 in Bali. If she had been in Oz for 19 years, and for some reason qualified for a full pension of, say, $15451 when in Oz , then the portable part would be $8424. [COLOR="#0000FF"]This is the formula for the Portability calculation: The pensions portability rate calculator The pensions portability rate calculator is in the SSAct section 1221-A1 and is used to calculate the proportional rate. The following formula shows how the rate is derived: Overseas rate = [COLOR="#FF8C00"](P × Q) ÷ 420,[/COLOR] where: P = the yearly income and asset tested rate payable in Australia (the NOTIONAL DOMESTIC RATE), Q = the number of months of AWLR PLUS one month, but not exceeding 420, and 420 = 35 years expressed in months. Example: A recipient with a yearly income and asset tested rate of $3,500 and 18 years working life in Australia would get an overseas rate of $1,808.30 a year [(3,500 × 217) ÷ 420].[/COLOR] [COLOR="#A52A2A"]And no geedee you would not get divorced and remarried to in any way change your status with Centrelink. In general, they know everything about us all anyway and they cannot be tricked or manipulated in any way. [/COLOR]

You certainly have done your work here Susan well done thanks for the info

SusanSydney

Thanks again SusanSydney, so do you know how it works if you do 6 months in Bali and 6 months in Australia leading up to your pension age and ongoing?

I should explain at this stage that I am not a lawyer. I am not a financial adviser or accountant. Nor do I currently work for any government department (although I did work for the Dept of Social Security 40 years ago!!) So I hope I've not given the impression of being any kind of authority. I do think one of the big problems is people who get on forums and tell everyone else what they think as though it's gospel. I would strongly urge anyone to do their own homework on this issue. That being said, here is a link which if you copy and paste it into your browser address field should show you an excerpt from the guidelines relevant to the definition of "Australian residence". 3.1.1.10 Residence Requirements | Guide to Social Security Law As you can see, it gives a few examples of different people's situations. So I would never suggest that it's as simple as how many months here and how many months there. If you want to see some real doozies, here is a link to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal of Australia - a couple of examples I found fascinating. 410 Gone (Social Services decision was confirmed) 410 Gone (Social Services decision was overturned in other words the applicant won his appeal! (doesn't happen often) At first glance you may think these cases are not relevant to you. But in fact they are relevant to anyone looking at the definition of "Australian Resident". Some of the case law is for other legislation, like Tax, Citizenship, etc. It just all adds up to stuff that Tribunal members may take into account when deciding cases. [COLOR="silver"][SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE][/COLOR]

homeinbali

Retirement Visa

I should explain at this stage that I am not a lawyer. I am not a financial adviser or accountant. Nor do I currently work for any government department (although I did work for the Dept of Social Security 40 years ago!!) So I hope I've not given the impression of being any kind of authority. I do think one of the big problems is people who get on forums and tell everyone else what they think as though it's gospel. I would strongly urge anyone to do their own homework on this issue. That being said, here is a link which if you copy and paste it into your browser address field should show you an excerpt from the guidelines relevant to the definition of "Australian residence". 3.1.1.10 Residence Requirements | Guide to Social Security Law As you can see, it gives a few examples of different people's situations. So I would never suggest that it's as simple as how many months here and how many months there. If you want to see some real doozies, here is a link to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal of Australia - a couple of examples I found fascinating. 410 Gone (Social Services decision was confirmed) 410 Gone (Social Services decision was overturned in other words the applicant won his appeal! (doesn't happen often) At first glance you may think these cases are not relevant to you. But in fact they are relevant to anyone looking at the definition of "Australian Resident". Some of the case law is for other legislation, like Tax, Citizenship, etc. It just all adds up to stuff that Tribunal members may take into account when deciding cases. [COLOR="silver"][SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE][/COLOR]

Thankyou once again, all very interesting, and it shows how each case is looked into individually. All the more reason to take things slowly and research, research, research.

« Previous Page Next Page »