Thieving staff

spicyayam

If you have a business how do you control staff from stealing from you? I am not talking about stealing everything in your cash register but small amounts over a period of time. For example you ask them to buy 10 loaves of bread and they only buy 5 and pocket the difference. Or a customer buys something and they pocket the money and don't write up a receipt.

Markit

If it's controllable - 5 loaves instead of 10, count them. If it's not controllable and a small amount, consider it a cost of doing business here. If it's not controllable and a large amount, change the process to allow for control. For instance: a fat, bald friend not a million miles away from this forum has the largest esky in the southern hemisphere filled with cold beer in his homestay. Now he could make someone responsible for each and every beer that his largely Oz customers drink and get them to pay for it but that would take a mountain of work, calculation and several rotating staff as the esky is available 24/7. What he does is gets them to pay whatever they want and figure they've had. Now I don't know this for a fact but I'm betting he comes out ahead on that calculation because of a number of human factors that work in his favor, not the least of which is the savings in stress and staff costs, but I'd also bet that human nature and drunkenness being what it is people round up their consumption.

geedee

spicyayam wroteIf you have a business how do you control staff from stealing from you? I am not talking about stealing everything in your cash register but small amounts over a period of time. For example you ask them to buy 10 loaves of bread and they only buy 5 and pocket the difference. Or a customer buys something and they pocket the money and don't write up a receipt.

Use cameras they are cheap now and your software with it can easily pinpoint exact transactions eg . if you type ---- loaf it will bring up every type of that loaf you sold time date and video of the transaction You can also do it with what type of transaction cash,credit card etc etc. And much more Do you have software to control your registrars? eg change prices etc Staff knowing there are cameras is a huge deterrent .you can even watch from your mobile device. Speaking to them warning them is a great deterrent. Any questions or a more detailed answer pm me

geedee

paulseawind wrote Live here for a few years and then let's hear what song you sing.

I would be singing " Yesterday" Yesterday my tomatoes seemed so far away But I walked and saved 20c that way Oh I Believe in yesterday

geedee

Markit wroteIf it's controllable - 5 loaves instead of 10, count them. If it's not controllable and a small amount, consider it a cost of doing business here. If it's not controllable and a large amount, change the process to allow for control. For instance: a fat, bald friend not a million miles away from this forum has the largest esky in the southern hemisphere filled with cold beer in his homestay. Now he could make someone responsible for each and every beer that his largely Oz customers drink and get them to pay for it but that would take a mountain of work, calculation and several rotating staff as the esky is available 24/7. What he does is gets them to pay whatever they want and figure they've had. Now I don't know this for a fact but I'm betting he comes out ahead on that calculation because of a number of human factors that work in his favor, not the least of which is the savings in stress and staff costs, but I'd also bet that human nature and drunkenness being what it is people round up their consumption.

Its the biggest esky in the world(not just southern hemisphere). I'm also betting that when you go he is definitely not ahead. I though he charged 20k I also agree with you and bet he comes out ahead as people would round it up and people would not want to rip him off as hes a really nice guy. He maybe very round and lacking of fur on top but is pretty smart However your forgetting the amount he takes for himself(which would be considerable)

geedee

paulseawind wroteYou have to be a step ahead of them. First off, make sure they have good job and good pay level and good working conditions. Second, when this happens, fire one. That sorts the rest out. If they want to risk their job for small change then play their game and let them go. Eventually you will get good staff. Pay them on a daily rate. None of this monthly pay stuff. On daily pay, all you have to do is pay the day out and say bye-bye. As for pesongan - if there is no contract or agreement then there is no 'severence pay'. Be fair but firm with them. If you notice things whittling away, keep those things locked away and they will realise you don't really trust them and that you will take the job. And smile when you do all this. That's my view.

Whats up with you today. Why didn't you say FIRE THEM

geedee

spicyayam wroteIf you have a business how do you control staff from stealing from you? I am not talking about stealing everything in your cash register but small amounts over a period of time. For example you ask them to buy 10 loaves of bread and they only buy 5 and pocket the difference. Or a customer buys something and they pocket the money and don't write up a receipt.

Just read the question again and perhaps you dont need to spend the money on hardware and software. I don't know what type of business it is. So my answer is (and this question right up my alley). Remember I may not understand the culture so you may need to adapt [COLOR="#000000"][B] You need to immediately address this issue you cannot let it drag on it will get worse. [/B][/COLOR] 1. Speak to them immediately (all of them) individually and tell them you know and that you will not accept this. keep the culprits to last they will be panicking . Tell them to not even think of giving you bull**** be very very stern and committed. ask questions like "do you think it is right to steal from your employer" They can only answer 'NO" to this but the might babble on "why do you ask "etc etc just make sure you stick to the question and dont let them change subject. Then tell them you know this is happening ,they may say not me boss, ignore this answer and keep telling them you know its happening and there will be serious consequences even Polisi. Also tell them you cant believe people would steal from you and ask 'Can you". also give them examples like the bread etc. Also tell them they have a responsibility to tell you if any other employee is stealing. They then may be scared in case they are dobbed in. Make sure you write this up as the rules etc even get them to sign. 2. Get a couple of IP cameras these are cheap about $100 or so you can watch from your phone and let them know actually show them. Its the fear of the cameras which will deter them.They dont know if you are watching or not. 3. Put a sign at registrar customer side saying "customers make sure you ask for receipt" When you do this you will feel a weight lifted from you.

Fred2

Staff go out to buy something, you give them Rp100,000 and they come back with the receipt & change. Months later I went to the store and said you are charging me too much, the owner said I was given the best price in town & showed me how much he charged other people. I showed him the receipt, but it did not match he's copy, it worked out that my staff was also taking the next blank receipt in the book & writing out he's own receipt that he handed in. I employed a new person to do his work & a month later I told the old staff member to take a holiday as it was quite, he never came back. I explained to the staff that if you think I have more money they you so take a little on the side, think again. Everyone is replaceable, you get paid a good wage, for a fair days work & are looked after. By doing it this way I won't have any problems as the employee was not sacked.

Markit

I tend to disagree: If you are doing business here in Indonesia you need to take a more rounded view of it all. Geedee you recommend going from Zero to Hero in one swoop and I think that might just make your problem worse here. Any bule doing business here is largely "free game" and it is expected that they will be slightly cheated or at the very least given the worst prices and to be honest most bule pass this along to their bule customers (ever see any bule charging local prices?). I think you need to make it clear you've noticed the "wastage" and that you won't accept it but to threaten with police or the like is way over the odds for here. Perhaps ask your Kepala Desa (village mayor) if he can recommend a solution? or the local holy man? and make sure all have heard that you have made this request. You need to understand the "chain of command" here. Usually the KD will be glad you are offering well paid and steady work in his Kampung and will not be happy that is being dis-respected, ditto holy man (but will need a donation :O)) If the employees are from your local Kampung you really, really don't want to alienate them by threats of dire consequences or police action because they will make it impossible for you to live there, simple really. If you accept a low level of wastage then pass it on to your customers then you are part of the real world and they lived happily ever after... But what do I know?

geedee

Markit wroteI tend to disagree: If you are doing business here in Indonesia you need to take a more rounded view of it all. Geedee you recommend going from Zero to Hero in one swoop and I think that might just make your problem worse here. Any bule doing business here is largely "free game" and it is expected that they will be slightly cheated or at the very least given the worst prices and to be honest most bule pass this along to their bule customers (ever see any bule charging local prices?). I think you need to make it clear you've noticed the "wastage" and that you won't accept it but to threaten with police or the like is way over the odds for here. Perhaps ask your Kepala Desa (village mayor) if he can recommend a solution? or the local holy man? and make sure all have heard that you have made this request. You need to understand the "chain of command" here. Usually the KD will be glad you are offering well paid and steady work in his Kampung and will not be happy that is being dis-respected, ditto holy man (but will need a donation :O)) If the employees are from your local Kampung you really, really don't want to alienate them by threats of dire consequences or police action because they will make it impossible for you to live there, simple really. If you accept a low level of wastage then pass it on to your customers then you are part of the real world and they lived happily ever after... But what do I know?

I did say "Maybe I dont understand the culture" Definitely this appears to be the case , I'm looking at it from a western perspective which is obviously the wrong way Still have a lot to learn Your answer seems very sensible to me there's more to you than being able to cook. This problem is causing spicyayam concern annoying him and obviously on his mind and for his sake he needs to act quickly. As for the ball shaped fella with the shiny top his honesty system is when he is dealing with fellow Aussies so he will win.

bakung

spicyayam wrote[COLOR="#FF0000"]If you have a business how do you control staff from stealing from you[/COLOR]? I am not talking about stealing everything in your cash register but small amounts over a period of time. For example you ask them to buy 10 loaves of bread and they only buy 5 and pocket the difference. Or a customer buys something and they pocket the money and don't write up a receipt.

You cant and never will and anybody who says they can/have in Indonesia is having themselves on, it is part of the culture here that if there is no corruption in the job then they will simply move on to the next job untill they can get it. even if it is only a few rps then they are content but some get greedy and go for the jugular one hit and gone with a lot, factor it into your projections and the effect wont hit you so hard. it is all part of doing business here and that is why you see such a high turnover of new ventures going breasts up as they come into it with the attitude we know it all and staff wont steal from us we will make sure of it ?. in Bali your staff will make or kill your business no matter how good you think you are.

geedee

paulseawind wroteYou have reminded me of that. I was talking with someone and they said a new person asked 'Can we?' meaning rip the customers off. Yes, it's a national sport. Another piece of 'advice' I thought of was to befriend a local business person and ask how do they control their own 'type'. The answer would be v.interesting. Going to the markets is a classic example. I went to Banjar to buy some red tomatoes. The woman at the front said enam ribu (6K) when I asked how much per kilo. A woman sitting back and eating said lima ribu (5K). I said dua kilo (I want 2 kgs) and paid 10K. The 6K woman was seriously unhappy but I just laughed at her. Next time, I will tell her that my friend GD will come and talk to her to persuade her to be a more righteous person.

You saved 2k = 20c I will come and talk to you

geedee

paulseawind wroteBefore you dive into the deep end of the pool on this stuff, try living here for a few years first. You are smart enough to notice the details. After a few years, I will then listen to you. You buy 10 eggs for 14K. $1.40. Someone takes 1 egg. 14c. Yes, it is nothing. But, over time, you get rorted. Let me compare this to the Philippines. I once said I met someone there. (Not my wife). An American friend said 'Eventually you will be supporting the whole family, and more.' I never let it go that far but I did pay for her to complete her College Degree (around $3,000) and I paid for a birthday party for someone's kid (I got photos) and for a school outing to some fun parks. My hskpr said the family home owned by the grandfather is going to be sold. She needed to move out but could not afford a rent. They pay a year in advance here. She conscripted the hskpr from next door to talk to me about it because better English. My hskpr wanted 3 million. I said No. I had already loaned 1.5 million to a friend who said she'd give it back in one month. I have never seen that 1.5 back again. I said to my hskpr you go to this woman, get the 1.5, I will add 1.5 to it, then you have 3 million. My hskpr tried that but it became a fight between Balinese. It ended in tears. In the end I handed over 3 million. She said she would pay me 500K every 1st of the month until re-paid. I haven't seen any of that. I also loaned her a cupboard/wardrobe, and a double bed so her 2 kids didn't have to sleep on the floor. I have also given her an electric mixer. And a DenPoo oven. Plus other things. This stuff goes on all the time. The trick is to minimise it. Next time someone wants money I can tell these 2 stories and then refuse. They will say 'but I will pay'. haha I will say no and send them to the Bank. My stories are small potatoes compared to others. If you still think I am 'too hard' then they are gonna love you.

Turn it up... I'm not talking about the big things only saying 10c kg in a market for tomatoes. Same the world over even Australia. But for 10c kg not worth talking about. Whats 10c to you Plus yesterday you said "No way Hose" The spelling bee has finally messed up its "No way Jose"

Markit

Luckily I can't read PissWind's homilies as I've blocked him. I've always wondered (and not just for here) how complicit we all are in our own downfall. Not to get too philosophical about it but if we leave our expensive stuff laying around in a country where 1 juta is supposed to feed and house a family for a month (and usually doesn't) or if we go out dressed like whores (girls) and drink to excess who is really responsible for what then happens? If I saw my family going without I'd definitely steal enough for them to eat if there was no other handy way to make ends meet and likewise if I came from a society where women were meant to behave a certain way and those that didn't were whores and hence "free game" into a society where everyone acted like I thought whores did... Just a thought from the far east...

no.idea

Markit wroteIf it's controllable - 5 loaves instead of 10, count them. If it's not controllable and a small amount, consider it a cost of doing business here. If it's not controllable and a large amount, change the process to allow for control. For instance: a fat, bald friend not a million miles away from this forum has the largest esky in the southern hemisphere filled with cold beer in his homestay. Now he could make someone responsible for each and every beer that his largely Oz customers drink and get them to pay for it but that would take a mountain of work, calculation and several rotating staff as the esky is available 24/7. What he does is gets them to pay whatever they want and figure they've had. Now I don't know this for a fact but I'm betting he comes out ahead on that calculation because of a number of human factors that work in his favor, not the least of which is the savings in stress and staff costs, but I'd also bet that human nature and drunkenness being what it is people round up their consumption.

Come on mate, no need to throw in the "fat" bit. Well built sounds better.