Mixed marriage property ownership in Bali

Jungle Jim

Hi Balipod people. My wife & I have been married for four years, married here in Indonesia, no pre-nuptial made before marriage and have one child also born here. We currently reside in N.Sumatra although we will settle in Bali before the years end. I've been researching the possibility of owning our own home in Bali and have come away somewhat confused! Is it so, that my wife although originally from Sumatra is able to have Hak Milik in Bali? Could it be that we have to have a in-law as guarantor? Just what is the situation? Please someone add some light to a rather murky subject. Thanks :icon_smile:

davita

Jungle Jim...welcome to the forum.You can search here as there are many posts re: Buying property in Indonesia...Bali is no different to other provinces in this regard.If you are a foreigner married to an Indonesian, without a pre-nup, she cannot own property after marriage to you as, legally, you would be a co-owner and Hak Milik title is therefore not available. It is possible to get an WNI relative to be the 'nominee' owner but this includes trust, as the nominee will be the rightful owner on the title deeds.

Jungle Jim

Hi Davita. Thanks for your quick response, Just as I thought! I'll sit down and have a chat with the inlaws.

davita

You're welcome...it is all possible. We own an apartment in Jakarta and a villa in Bali with immediate relatives as our nominees.A caveat is, if your marriage is Muslim and your nominee is also of that faith, you should also research the inheritance laws with respect to your child, as they may not follow civil law.

Jungle Jim

Thanks again. Fortunately my wife is a Catholic Batak. It's encouraging to hear you've gone down the immediate family route as your nominees, we shall follow in your footsteps and do the same...

gilbert de jong

use child as nominee

ferdie

Gilbert, CMIIW I don't think an underage can own a property

Jungle Jim

Thanks for the suggestion. Are you aware of anybody having done this previously?

davita

Using a child as nominee has been discussed many times in other Indonesian expat forums.I have never heard of anyone doing it.1. What nationality is the child...if dual....then obviously cannot. 2. If the child is a WNI, and nominated, it will need a guardian. Who will be the guardian?When appointing a nominee one should also consider inheritance law, even outside of the Muslim faith...i.e. who will inherit the title if the nominee dies before the foreign owner. This detail needs to be in the equation prior to selecting the nominee.Here is a link to an article printed in Bali Discovery some years back...I don't think much has changed....[url=http://www.balidiscovery.com/messages/message.asp?Id=4023]Bali News: Freehold Land Title for Foreigners in Bali: Caveat Emptor[/url]

Jungle Jim

Having researched using our son as nominee, I have to say....Non starter im afraid.

balibule

Divorce, get a prenup, get married again.

Jungle Jim

Thanks for your suggestion. I had considered such drastic action, however we shall go with the immediate family member as nominee.

davita

Balibule has a good idea but can Catholics divorce?Also...if you cannot trust your nominee (a trusted family member) can one really trust their relative (your wife)...:devilish:There is a saying about family blood and its thickness....:greedy_dollars::greedy_dollars:

ferdie

Can't you draw up a letter similar to a prenup since you're married already?Its only an asset separation deal right?Is the lawyer in Indo that stupid or the law only allow prenup?

joji gulapetis

davita

Can't you draw up a letter similar to a prenup since you're married already?Its only an asset separation deal right?Is the lawyer in Indo that stupid or the law only allow prenup?[/QUOTE]The purpose of obtaining a pre-nup in Indonesia is different to its purpose elsewhere. In RI, the only way a WNI can enjoy property ownership, and keep it after marrying a foreigner, is to use a pre-nup which separates the property to the WNI spouse prior to the wedding.An agreement after marriage does not constitute that legal right as law is heirarchical and precedence of married partners sharing assets (property) is higher than a contract or agreement.Even if a pre-nup is arranged, and the WNI spouse dies, the property will automatically be inherited by the foreign spouse....this is NOT permitted and the foreigner will need to dispose of it within 1 year.This is also the legal precedent why a nominee cannot (subsequently) sign an agreement that the property is rightfully the buyer. It is often done, and some believe it is legal, but a contract cannot take precedence above the constitutional law preventing foreign ownership.

gilbert de jong

Having researched using our son as nominee, I have to say....Non starter im afraid.[/QUOTE]change notaris...under-aged son can be owner with the mom as legal guardian (she signs in name of child)..dual nationality is no problem either since the kid is both WNI and WNA till 18 or if he/she can't make up his/her mind till 21.

davita

change notaris...under-aged son can be owner with the mom as legal guardian (she signs in name of child)..dual nationality is no problem either since the kid is both WNI and WNA till 18 or if he/she can't make up his/her mind till 21.[/QUOTE]Has anyone transferred title to an underage dual-national or heard about it. If so, who became the guardian and who would benefit from inheritance. What happens when he/she becomes of age and choses Indonesian...does the property then belong to the WNI? If he/she chooses the foreign nationality do they need to sell within 1 year?I've heard of an underage WNI from a previous marriage being given title but the guardian/executor was a WNI grandmother, as the WNI spouse was married to a foreigner. My thought was..... why not just allow the grandmother to be the nominee.Many notaries may go along with convoluted purchases if legal but may have problems ahead when attempting to sell.

Jungle Jim

Three questions please.1) Having our son as legal owner and his mother as legal guardian is certainly an interesting argument. I've had a look through this forum and researched many other sources, so far can't find any previous examples. Can I put it out to all & sundry? Have you or do you know of anyone using a minor (child) who is dual nationality WNI & WNE until the grand age of 21 with his mum as legal guardian? 2) If notaris advises, yes go ahead it's fine. Would it, if challenged, stand up in a court of law? Just to let you know, I wouldn't take the notaris word as gospel and would always check with a local lawyer for konformasi!. 3) Way less of a brain ache this one! Can some kind soul recommend a decent, honest and honorable notaris (don't laugh) in Tabanan...I thank you :cheerful:

gilbert de jong

1 : yes, I was sitting right next to them when the contracts were signed.2 : out of curiosity, who will "challenge" ? and what will be "challenged" ? 3 : sorry, don't know a notaris in that area.