FRONSEY
Hi Have read lots of good info on the forum on building/ buying in Bali - thanks.We are currently living in a part of Bali that's going through rapid expansion - we want to buy ( 25 year leasehold) a place instead of continuing to pay hefty rent. We have looked at lots of villas done lots & lots of chasing around but haven't found anything that's suitable -we were also open to renovation on a villa. We were initially opposed to building -that has changed after seeing what's happening in the area - if you can't beat em join em.Anyway after much searching we have come across a beautiful piece of land - were now thinking of building My question is its a rice field how long would we need to allow it to dry out prior to building on it? After searching on this forum I could only find 1 post saying it takes a year? I've been advised by a friend who has built nearby its more like 2 years to dry out? If that's the case we'll keep looking as that's too long to wait.Cherry Fronsey
sherm
No slam against you but I would hire a professional rather than asking on an internet forum. Don't count on your builder either, they want to get the job started (and your money) asap. A knowledgeable uninterested third party is the best way to avoid the whole thing going to crap.
hermit
Good if that takes too long.NOBODY SHOULD BE BUILDING IN RICEFIELDS ANYMORE!
Markit
Hermit you and I finally agree on something!Why the feck would you want to build on the only place that grows the food that we eat. Isn't there a place around the rice field where you could build that doesn't need to dry and won't mean more imported rice into Bali. I can show you 3+ places to build here in Karangasem with fantastic views, relatively economical and away from the south. Go look at Ubud if you think building on rice fields it a good idea.
ferdie
My aunt had one and it took more than 2 year back then They are right, there are reasons why rice field conversion are not the best options to build your property.Some were the ethics side that Hermit and Markit stated and the other are more practical reasons like: better you buy a place with existing trees and dry land, such as a "kebun", god know you will need the shades instead of buying a lot of AC's and it would be faster and easier to deal with.Remember when you (an expat) convert a rice field you will have to deal with the subak and they will charge you at a certain cost no matter what the reason, from you have to support their culture and religion (pura), water usage (even if you have your own pump/PAM), land conversion cost and what ever reason that they could use to squeeze your money out of you.:biggrin:Markit: dont send rice fields converter to Ubud, Ubudians loved their rice view :02.47-tranquillity:
Markit
Markit: dont send rice fields converter to Ubud, Ubudians loved their rice view :02.47-tranquillity:[/QUOTE]You misunderstood my point Ferdie - I loved Ubud before all the idiots put their ugly villas right in the middle of beautiful rice paddies. Now it's just a lesson in how to fuck up a nice place - hence my "go see".
ferdie
Markit: my sincere apology sir, the earthquake must have shaken my head so bad that I misread the posting :black_eyed:
Mark
Hello Fronsey, you've received the expected earful of 'political correctness', now as to your question I have heard it can take from 8-12 months from the last harvest for a rice paddy to dry out sufficiently for building. Of course, this could also depend on seasonal rain, any water ingress from neighboring fields, etc. Given that leasing land and constructing a building are very big decisions, you may wish to consult with a geotechnical (ie, soil) engineer for a professional opinion on the land you are considering. Good luck.
FRONSEY
Thanks for the replies - yes of course we are consulting professionals I just thought I would ask before meeting with them so we had some back ground information.Yep we did have the same moral dilemma too building on rice paddies but as I said in my initial post we are surrounded by building going on in rice fields were we live now - nearly all of the land down here was previously rice fields -BTW I have noted the Balinese don't seem to have the same issue building on there own rice paddies as a lot of the new badly built villas we have looked at for sale have been owned and built by Balinese on there rice fields.we need to be close to good international schools so for the next 10 years need to be in Badung and don't have the luxury of moving to Karangesem . Cheers
Markit
If you need to be close to an GOOD international school try Switzerland, Cambridge or Austria cause you sure won't find one here on poor old Bali.Since you're wanna put your kids in one for the next ten years I'd also recommend you build a villa with lots of windows. That way the kids will get masses of practice cleaning em and won't have to go back to where ever in the west with [I]NO[/I] [B]education[/B] [U]AND[/U] [I]NO[/I] [B]experience[/B].One more thing I didn't understand: if everyone around your desired building spot has already built on pristine rice fields why didn't you ask them how it was? And if they are all doing it just imagine what it will look like in another 10 years? Think - resale value....:icon_sad:
FRONSEY
If you need to be close to an GOOD international school try Switzerland, Cambridge or Austria cause you sure won't find one here on poor old Bali.Since you're wanna put your kids in one for the next ten years I'd also recommend you build a villa with lots of windows. That way the kids will get masses of practice cleaning em and won't have to go back to where ever in the west with [I]NO[/I] [B]education[/B] [U]AND[/U] [I]NO[/I] [B]experience[/B].One more thing I didn't understand: if everyone around your desired building spot has already built on pristine rice fields why didn't you ask them how it was? And if they are all doing it just imagine what it will look like in another 10 years? Think - resale value....:icon_sad:[/QUOTE]
FRONSEY
Markit your wrong there- Kids in school already here for last 2 years - it's excellent really happy with it a lot better than the school in Australia they were previously in- the kids love it.We've been in international schools before OS so know the standards - I doubt if the increasing number if expats with kids would be coming if the schools weren't any good who'd wanna risk your kids education .We've friends here who's kids have done all of there education here and are now at University elsewhere - Not sure you've been keeping up with international education standards in Bali -
gilbert de jong
well..I have no idea if markit has been keeping up with the int.education standards...but I have, just a little bit though..but enough to say that a diploma/certificate from an "Int.School" on Bali isn't worth s**t in (for example) the NL
Markit
My daughter went to an international school in southern Germany (Salem) so I'm fairly up on standards of IB (International Baccalaureate) education and I've got 2 acquaintances that were both teachers at international schools here on Bali. Their stories would make your hair stand on end - no work permits, the "staff" informed of immigration raids per sms, cheating is widespread, etc. etc. Maybe educational standards aren't so high in Oz? [SIZE=2][I]"I doubt if the increasing number if expats with kids would be coming if the schools weren't any good who'd wanna risk your kids education .[/I][/SIZE]"Would definitely not bank on that one friend! We get all sorts come through here.
Rangi
My friend who works at an International school here in Bali shared the same sentiment as Markit. They said they are basically free to teach what ever they want, that is it a joke and they would never ever consider sending one of their own children to a school here.
Populaire
Hi Fronsey,It's also worth noting that most Balinese who build on rice-fields do so without IMB's and they are typically not harassed for such. Anybody else will not enjoy the same "blind-eye" treatment. The re-zoning of rice-fields to "rumahan" is very difficult, some may say even impossible these days (and rightly so), due to the political and public sentiment against such. Without re-zoning, you won't be able to obtain an IMB because as of 2009/2010, Tata Ruang must verify the zoning directly prior to IMB issuance. Previously, people would be able to get an IMB simply by having a certificate that stated "rumahan" zoning on it - and getting this change made to ones certificate was very easy, but it means little to nothing now days if the RTRW zoning map has the area that you are in as greenbelt.An additional thing to be cautious of is that fraudulent IMB's are very common nowadays - people pay an agent to get their IMB and are handed a fake document and plates. These IMB's only cheat the owner of the property, as they have no value at all. So having a fake IMB is as good as having no IMB and unless you're Balinese - not having an IMB is needless to say, going to be problematic.All the best..Populaire
sherm
Another thing the OP should consider is getting approval from the Kepala Desa. Without his approval you will find it very difficult. Depending on the village chief's personality this may be easy or not. If he outright against your project, it probably won't happen. I personally know of one property where the buyers started making an access road to their property without first consulting the chief. He was angry (insulted) they did not approach him first with their plans to build and secondly did not get permission from the other property owners to cross their land. Police were involved and the owners are pretty much screwed at this point. As far as he is concerned they will never build on the property.
Markit
Populaire do you have any experience as to who is restricted by the zoning laws? Say for instance the local army was being thrown off their camp in the middle of the city (Amlapura) and had a patch of rice paddy land (zoned for agriculture) in the middle of a Tourist Zoned Area (Candi Dasa to Ujung with the brown signs). How likely is it that they would be allowed to build a new "camp" parking spot for their vehicles or some such in the middle of all this? What could be done about that?Thanks in advance for your advice. Markit
ferdie
@markit: Local army? you mean laskar?Law enforcing on zoning regulations usually done by BPN and the local city servants (pamong praja/dinas tramtib) and the local community could report or complain about this issue, the police will be involved only if there's a potential physical conflict.Basically local politics play a large part here, how big is the influence of this laskar locally? How is the backer of this guys locally?Just make sure you got enough support to back you up in this matter, sometimes people only provoked you to stand up against them but then hung you up to dry when the going gets though:icon_rolleyes:
Populaire
Hi Markit,We're not lawyers so we won't try guess what the legalities are surrounding the circumstances you mention.What is very clear is, there's the law, then there's the ground realities. These realities include, the Kepala Desa, the Klien Adat, the Klien Banjar, genuine local families and of course local opportunists. In between all of these bodies and persons, are about a million things that can go either way depending on what your trying to do and who is on your side and who isn't.Unfortunately, law enforcement, enjoys the disputes that arise from the many ambiguities as they get to take on the roles of mediator, judge, jury and enforcer - and as you might imagine, their favour can often be 'swung ones way'.There are countless examples all over Indonesia of the reality of the far gap between law and enforcement of the law:- squatters being compensated for moving off of private land; compensate or else..- unmarried couples being arrested at hotels despite there being no national law preventing pre-marital relations..- people selling land then demanding further compensation when the new owners try to build on it..- restaurants in Sumatra being ransacked for selling alcohol during lebaran while police watch, despite there being no law against such..- villagers closing public roads to prevent the course of business - sure the police and army may re-open it for you but it's not a free service..Too many to count.Our point wasn't intended to address these issues - more so just to note that building a house on greenbelt zoned land probably won't end well.All the best..Populaire
