Childrens passports

islandchef

Are there benefits for children of mixed legal marriages in having 2 passports? Children born after August 6 2009 are automatically entitled to Indonesian citizenship & entitled to dual citizenship until 18 according to the law. Our son holds an Australian passport which contains the affidavit which confirms dual citizenship & visa free travel & entry between Australia & Indonesia. My understanding is that he can have 2 passports but must use the same one when traveling & has much more freedom on an Australian passport.Is there any reason why i should apply or an Indonesian passport for him ?

spicyayam

We got two passports for our son, but I guess that was just because we didn't really know what we were doing at the time. There is probably no real need that I can see, unless maybe you were doing a lot of travel especially in SE Asia where you might get some advantage having a passport from an ASEAN country. Since the passport is expensive to get for Australia, I wonder if there is a way to get into Australia for free only on an Indo passport with the citizenship paper from oz.

Markit

Gentlemen do not presume to make decisions for your child's future which you most probably won't be part of. A passport confers citizenship and who knows in this fecking weird world where it might be nice to be able to go or leave quickly? My daughter has 3 passports/citizenships - US because she was born there, UK because papa has that nationality too, German because mama is a Kraut. Never give up what you have, freely. Just tell em to make sure they leave and come back on the same passport - customs and Immi don't have much brains or humor...

davita

Markit wrote A passport confers citizenship .

Not entirely true...a passport is a travel document not citizenship.....unless annotated. ....see Wiki...passports...."A passport specifies nationality, but not necessarily citizenship or the place of residence of the passport holder." My mother never had a passport in her life...yet she was a British citizen. I have British citizenship but no longer hold a British passport....too expensive if never used. If I need in the future I could easily get one. After the Vietnam war, on behalf of the Red Cross, I was issued a Hong Kong passport to fly in-out Saigon with refugees....and I wasn't a Hong Kong citizen. The real issue is to ensure the children's citizenships, so they can choose whichever, when they are of age. The Indonesian passport often requires visas, especially visiting N. America/EU/Aus, but is probably more useful around Asia.

davita

kayoticlaudia wroteCan confirm this...... Have a Dutch passport so am a Dutch National but NOT a Dutch citizen. Was told this when trying to get help with my nonexistent Birth certificate. Am in a very confused state because then I am a citizen of....... heck if I knew!

I suggest you PM to Markit....he seems to have all the answers. He might adopt you or give one of his daughter's citizenships to you as I heard he is immensely gracious and considerate.:icon_e_biggrin:

kayoticlaudia

Can confirm this...... Have a Dutch passport so am a Dutch National but NOT a Dutch citizen. Was told this when trying to get help with my nonexistent Birth certificate. Am in a very confused state because then I am a citizen of....... heck if I knew!

davita wroteNot entirely true...a passport is a travel document not citizenship.....unless annotated. ....see Wiki...passports...."A passport specifies nationality, but not necessarily citizenship or the place of residence of the passport holder." My mother never had a passport in her life...yet she was a British citizen. I have British citizenship but no longer hold a British passport....too expensive if never used. If I need in the future I could easily get one. After the Vietnam war, on behalf of the Red Cross, I was issued a Hong Kong passport to fly in-out Saigon with refugees....and I wasn't a Hong Kong citizen. The real issue is to ensure the children's citizenships, so they can choose whichever, when they are of age. The Indonesian passport often requires visas, especially visiting N. America/EU/Aus, but is probably more useful around Asia.

davita

kayoticlaudia wroteCan confirm this...... Have a Dutch passport so am a Dutch National but NOT a Dutch citizen. Was told this when trying to get help with my nonexistent Birth certificate. Am in a very confused state because then I am a citizen of....... heck if I knew!

My previous post was a tongue-in-cheek riposte to our [I]newest member[/I] Markit (back from the dungeon)...so apologies to you Claudia. Seriously though... I can see that not knowing if one had citizenship can be frustrating and hard to accept. There is sometimes confusion between Nationality and Citizenship. Nationality is a birthright and cannot be changed..Citizenship is a conferred right and can. i.e. I'm born in UK therefore my 'Nationality' is British (until Scotland secedes). I immigrated to Canada in 1990 and now my 'Citizenship' is Canadian. I cannot understand why the Netherlands can say you are born there, thus a National, without your ability to apply for Citizenship. I'd double check with your Ministry of Citizenship.

kayoticlaudia

No apologies necessary..... I was born in Taiwan to a Dutch father who was born in Indonesia who was born to a Dutch father who also was born in Indonesia..... And I have no official birth certificate (not registered as born at the local offices in Taiwan) - YET...... every 5 years they give me a new passport! So if I go to the Netherlands and register as living there (would be the first time I my life) and if I would want to have any official letters like a "letter of marriageability" I would have to present a birth certificate because....... I am not a Dutch citizen because I never lived there and also because of how I obtained my Dutch nationality - re. my grandfather and father. Also not born on Dutch soil.... Even though Indonesia was a Dutch colony... So so confusing!

davita wroteMy previous post was a tongue-in-cheek riposte to our [I]newest member[/I] Markit (back from the dungeon)...so apologies to you Claudia. Seriously though... I can see that not knowing if one had citizenship can be frustrating and hard to accept. There is sometimes confusion between Nationality and Citizenship. Nationality is a birthright and cannot be changed..Citizenship is a conferred right and can. i.e. I'm born in UK therefore my 'Nationality' is British (until Scotland secedes). I immigrated to Canada in 1990 and now my 'Citizenship' is Canadian. I cannot understand why the Netherlands can say you are born there, thus a National, without your ability to apply for Citizenship. I'd double check with your Ministry of Citizenship.

Markit

Davita the thing that pisses me off about your posts is that you actually know what other people are saying but choose not to "understand" it for some personal reason. If you or I or anyone else has a passport from a country USUALLY we can go stay/live/marry or die in that country. I'm as sure as Monsanto made little green apples that there are exceptions to this but GENERALLY if I have a passport from a country I can go live there. Citizenship is a political or moral issue that I frankly don't give a toss about. The original question was if there is any benefit in have more than one passport for a child. YES there is, for the reasons stated. If Davita wants to go off on his own tangent then bon fecking voyage.

davita

Frankly I don't really care what pisses you off. You informed members in post #3 quote.... 'a passport confers citizenship'... and I showed that was an incorrect statement and made reference to that fact. You now quote... 'Citizenship is a political or moral issue that I frankly don't give a toss about'..... yet no reference to any other authority than your own egocentric attitude. I haven't disputed why anyone wouldn't wish to have multiple passports...I simply try to identify which is a correct statement and which is one blowing out of someone's arse.

davita

kayoticlaudia wroteNo apologies necessary..... I was born in Taiwan to a Dutch father who was born in Indonesia who was born to a Dutch father who also was born in Indonesia..... And I have no official birth certificate (not registered as born at the local offices in Taiwan) - YET...... every 5 years they give me a new passport! So if I go to the Netherlands and register as living there (would be the first time I my life) and if I would want to have any official letters like a "letter of marriageability" I would have to present a birth certificate because....... I am not a Dutch citizen because I never lived there and also because of how I obtained my Dutch nationality - re. my grandfather and father. Also not born on Dutch soil.... Even though Indonesia was a Dutch colony... So so confusing!

I can see your confusing situation claudia and cannot advise. The Colonial days have long gone but some remnants, like your citizenship, linger. I confess I thought you were a young person needing some guidance but, from you post, I see you are OK. I have 2 kids? (both now in their 50's) from a mixed Malay/British marriage... and it was no effort to make them British then. They do not have any rights to Penang (born #1) or Singapore (born #2) but I don't think they fret as they both live extremely well in Sydney, as they immigrated on their own volition, and have become Australian citizens....:eagerness: Now I'm wondering if I can use my grandchildren to adopt me...naaagh!...I can't speak 'Strine.

kayoticlaudia

LOL Davita! I am fine with my situation as long as I don't want to get married or die...... Things have changed A LOT since 2001 in re. to passports, citizenship, certificates pertaining to status (birth, marriage, divorce, death). It used to be easy but now everything has to be current and legalized! I should have married before 2001! So dual passports I think is good as these are only in my opinion travel documents and we all know some travel documents make travel easier than others! As for citizenship - don't really know what that is - emotionally. And nationality - well when The Netherlands plays in the world cup you can guess whose side I am on, but other than that I am not a National of any country really. And the Dutch have lost me with their reluctance to help me.

davita wroteI can see your confusing situation claudia and cannot advise. The Colonial days have long gone but some remnants, like your citizenship, linger. I confess I thought you were a young person needing some guidance but, from you post, I see you are OK. I have 2 kids? (both now in their 50's) from a mixed Malay/British marriage... and it was no effort to make them British then. They do not have any rights to Penang (born #1) or Singapore (born #2) but I don't think they fret as they both live extremely well in Sydney, as they immigrated on their own volition, and have become Australian citizens....:eagerness: Now I'm wondering if I can use my grandchildren to adopt me...naaagh!...I can't speak 'Strine.

Markit

Then nationality laws dictating both mine and my daughters citizenship are those that were in power AT THE POINT OF BIRTH. Whatever new regulations are only relevant to people born after the passage of those regulations. For example some people acquire US citizenship through time spent living in the US, parentage, or place of birth - or all 3. Having a passport from a certain country doesn't of itself confer citizenship but acts as a pretty strong argument. Many Pakistanis and Indians that served in the UK armed forces were given UK passports which did not confer the right to reside in the UK. In any of the protectorates or "colonies", yes, just not in good old Blighty. UK citizenship used to only be passed down in the male line, mothers couldn't give citizenship to their own children. Needless to say this has all changed now.

davita

kayoticlaudia wroteLOL Davita! I am fine with my situation as long as I don't want to get married or die......

Now you have me ROTFL....seems like you are trying to choose. Let me help you with that....marriage is for ever and death is eternal...did that help...:indecisiveness: Stay single and keep-up with the diet and gym....:highly_amused:

davita

Markit wroteThen nationality laws dictating both mine and my daughters citizenship are those that were in power AT THE POINT OF BIRTH. Whatever new regulations are only relevant to people born after the passage of those regulations. For example some people acquire US citizenship through time spent living in the US, parentage, or place of birth - or all 3. Having a passport from a certain country doesn't of itself confer citizenship but acts as a pretty strong argument. Many Pakistanis and Indians that served in the UK armed forces were given UK passports which did not confer the right to reside in the UK. In any of the protectorates or "colonies", yes, just not in good old Blighty. UK citizenship used to only be passed down in the male line, mothers couldn't give citizenship to their own children. Needless to say this has all changed now.

Cannot disagree with your many points in para one except to add that Citizenship can also be acquired thru' marriage. My sister arranged marriage to a USA citizen in London and he subsequently avoided the Vietnam Draft because of that. Later they moved to USA where she became an American citizen, divorced, and now lives in Napa Valley. They are both gay! I lived for a few years in Arizona as a Canadian visitor (in-out every 6 months), so she sponsored me for a Green Card which could have led to Citizenship but, as sister/brother is lowest priority and, after 10 years waiting, I gave up on that as I had sold-up in Arizona and moved on.:apathy: Same in Para 2 but should also include Nepalese Gurkhas and Hong Kongers.