Defintive English Language Book on Land Law in Indonesia.

factgasm

This morning I went and visited the shiny new BPN office at Jalan Pudak, Denpasar. The new building is very smart and replaces the dingy, crampt old offices immediately adjacent. This BPN office specifically covers Denpasar. (Many of you will be familiar with the BPN office in Seminyak. That office covers the wider Badung Regency such as Nusa Dua, Kuta, Canggu, Seminyak etc). For some time now I have been conducting my own private investigation into a fraudulent property transaction here in Bali in 2006 that caused my bankruptcy in the UK. As result of my investigations the staff at the Denpasar office have come to know me, so this morning when I went there I was very fortunate to be shown straight to the top man, Gede Pujana. What luck! I asked Bpk Gede a question that he was not immediately able to answer. Instead of giving me an answer straight away he reached for a book named 'Kitab Undang Undang Agraria Dan Pertanahan'. He explained that this is the go-to reference book that he checks whenever he needs clarification on the law. That is to say, the Head of the BPN in Denpasar uses 'Kitab Undang Undang Agraria Dan Pertanahan' as his personal reference - therefore I propose we as a group should do the same. Bpk Gede explained that the book is on sale at Gramedia book shop at Matahari in central Denpasar for Rp180,000. I have just bought a copy. The book can be seen at belbuk.com (sorry, forum rules prevent noobs like me posting the link). Let me make a suggestion: Given the very real difficulties that Indonesian property law has so often caused foreigners, let's pool together and get the book translated into English, from cover to cover. It runs to slightly over 1000 pages. Here's the way I see it: Our biggest failing as a group is that we lack our own independent concrete guide to the law. Consequently those on both the right and wrong side of the law have made a lucrative living exploiting the situation. An English-language version of this text would give us expats immediate access to the law for a very modest price. Instead of making an appointment to see a notary every time a query or fear arises, an English-language version of this book would become our first port of call. By instilling we foreigners with confidence in our understanding of the law, it would help put our minds at rest. It would: [LIST] [*]Help to nip a lot of criminal activity and disputes in the bud before it got out of hand. [*]Reduce the scope for treacherous partners, their family and friends and foreigners alike to conspire and scheme against us. [*]Cut down on needless legal expense. [/LIST] On the whole such a book would arm us and help make life for us in Bali more like the tranquil existence we came here for in the first place. We're not looking at a lot of money to get this done either. In rough terms, if each of the 300 participants at the recent k3ni meeting contributed $20 that would be roughly sufficient to have an English-language version of the book published. To start we need a reliable translator, proof-reader and a publisher. What are your thoughts?

DenpasarHouse

factgasm wroteTo start we need a reliable translator, proof-reader and a publisher.

I think you're going to end up paying a lot of money just so people can then argue over the finer points of the translation. You really don't want to publish it as a book. I would never buy such a publication because I think it'd require updating before the printing run was finished. Here's how I think you should do it, although I realise it's easier said than done: [LIST] [*]Buy a domain name. [*]Buy some web hosting. [*]Install an open source Wiki (most likely from Wikimedia, which is the same wiki software Wikipedia is based on). [*]Turn off public editing and only allow certain trusted people access to edit the text. [*]Scan the book using optical character recognition (OCR). Also scan the book as images and give everyone online access (possible copyright issues though). [*]Break the text up into individual paragraphs (most probably you could just use the individual law's reference number). [*]Invite trusted and knowledgeable volunteers to start translating the text one paragraph at a time. Possibly require it to be proof read by other editors before being considered sound. [/LIST] Also, the Living In Indonesia Forum is much more legally literate than this one. You should repost to that forum and see how you go. Good luck.

spicyayam

You could try this book: Dyah Ersita & Partners - Publications - Law Firm in Indonesia - Indonesian Lawyers - Experts in Indonesian Law But I agree that it will be out of date by the time you have finished translating it. There are also regulations put out by the government based on the laws in place, which state how the laws are to be followed. The pre-nup agreement is an example of this for mixed marriage couples. Also how the laws are interpreted to followed by police, immigration is another issue. For example the law states that foreigners married to Indonesians with the correct visa can work to support the family. The way this is implemented is that foreigners can only "help out" in the business run by the Indonesian spouse.

Braveheart_shaped_box

You need to check with the biggest gob on another well known expat website all about 'living in Indonesia' as he will have to sanction any translation or interpretation of Indonesian Law. Despite the fact he has no legal qualifications or credentials he insists on giving out 'advice' that he often backs up with reams of Indo red tape gobbledegook. Warning, if you contradict him you will be barred from any forum where he has influence. I haven't used his nic as he spends most of his days googling his own name.

JohnnyCool

...You could try this book: Dyah Ersita & Partners - Publications - Law Firm in Indonesia - Indonesian Lawyers - Experts in Indonesian Law

I bought the 2006 edition of this years ago. Basically useless except in a generic sense, to get a very rough overview. Getting up-to-date information in Indonesia about legal matters, immigration laws, etc, is like a search for the Holy Grail. Never ending. And even if one does find such a thing, different offices in different regions have their own interpretations. Can't win, really. Great "idea", though, from the OP. Good luck.

Fred2

Im not sure what you are asking?? what fraudulent property transaction, I would be interested to hear your story & hopefully some good answers may come from the forum.No matter what anyone says a foreigner can not own land in Indonesia, you can lease, even a PMA has a time limit on land.

factgasm

Fred2 wroteIm not sure what you are asking?? what fraudulent property transaction, I would be interested to hear your story & hopefully some good answers may come from the forum.No matter what anyone says a foreigner can not own land in Indonesia, you can lease, even a PMA has a time limit on land.

In 2006 my wife was committing adultery with a local Balinese thug and sold our home by pretending that we weren't legally married. I never received single cent.

Fred2

So the title of the house was in her name & your wife would have to sign the sale documents? If you were married you would need a prenup which would make all land investment in only your wife's name. Were you married?? Im not sure what the married bit has to do with selling the house. Did your wife sell your home?? Did you have a lease over the house??

factgasm

Braveheart_shaped_box wroteYou need to check with the biggest gob on another well known expat website all about 'living in Indonesia' as he will have to sanction any translation or interpretation of Indonesian Law. Despite the fact he has no legal qualifications or credentials he insists on giving out 'advice' that he often backs up with reams of Indo red tape gobbledegook. Warning, if you contradict him you will be barred from any forum where he has influence. I haven't used his nic as he spends most of his days googling his own name.

The purpose of the exercise is to give an Indonesian text book to a sworn translator to obtain an English-language translation, nothing more. There is no place for officious intermeddlers in that process.

davita

Braveheart_shaped_box wroteYou need to check with the biggest gob on another well known expat website all about 'living in Indonesia' as he will have to sanction any translation or interpretation of Indonesian Law. Despite the fact he has no legal qualifications or credentials he insists on giving out 'advice' that he often backs up with reams of Indo red tape gobbledegook. Warning, if you contradict him you will be barred from any forum where he has influence. I haven't used his nic as he spends most of his days googling his own name.

Why would anyone from another forum, whether you wish to identify or not, have anything to do with debate on this forum? If you wish to discuss the merits of someone on another forum...why don't you do that there and leave the rest of us out of your clear rant. Here we are civil to each other!

factgasm

I have given a basic outline of my experience and that's about the limit of what you're going to get from me in a public forum, I'm afraid.

Fred2

Not a problem, are you not allowed to travel if you are bankrupted in the UK. Australia allows you to travel, you must show you travel plans & pay for permit to travel.

factgasm

I suspect that whether your passport is confiscated depends on the manner in which you go bankrupt. When I was made bankrupt in the UK I had up to that point led an unblemished life, I had gone bankrupt for a relatively modest amount as the result of criminal conduct on the part of others, hence I was not considered a flight risk and was allowed to keep my passport and travel. However two bankrupt Australians with whom it was my misfortune to cross paths both come from dubious backgrounds. Each went bankrupt owing a million+ dollars as a result of their own poor money management. Neither cooperated with their bankruptcy trustees and both had havens they could fly to in South East Asia where they would never be found. Hence they were treated as flight risks and had their passports confiscated.