Happy End?

Markit

You're not alone. I've said before one of the the things I loved about this part of Asia was it's atmosphere of Benevolent Chaos but it seems the benevolence is gone. The individual people are still lovely and you can harvest more smiles in a half hour than you'd see in a week in London or Munich (month there) but those happy people are beginning to just look deluded. Like inmates at the asylum.

sakumabali

To all of you old-timer, newcomer, longterm-residents, always-came-back-tourists.... I'm keen to know : do you think that this country heading into the right direction? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? Bureaucracy getting more efficient? (too many government staff pretending to work lol so the result is still in my humble opinion "improvable") Is there even a real attempt to improve Infrastructure ? ("oh no bapak wayan has here his temple" so 100.000 people have to squeeze through each day and scratch their cars or even worse falling in the got, where ends the right of self-determination and where the sense of community starts ? The WE Feeling), to deal with corruption? ("why should I not take some extra money, my family paid a lot to get me this job"), pollution and dirty rivers and canalization? ("I put my pig poo in the canalization since 1976 so if you don't like go back where you come from!")where ends this total lack of empathy and too much ego? Ever tried to explain a balinese that his chained dog barking the whole night and keep you awake? That you believed to live in a community? THIS IS MY LAND AND I DO WHAT I WANT HERRE HOMBRRE....how about the potential conflict between rich and poor? (some sporting their new ferrari and other are saving for a second hand bicycle), as follows a growing social uncertainty (especially for foreigners)... I mean u guys are know all these scams : "nominee structure" (what a joke), foreign Investment (no clear rationale, what is allowed and what not? ask 2 people get 3 answers. even for these among us who TRY to follow the rules, ignoring the fact that this results in material adverse effects for us foreigners because most of the indonesians don't pay taxes). it's just quite impossible to know what's right and what not. That make US very vulnerable in a country that applies double standards between indonesians and foreigners (ok in most countries the case but here it's quite extreme, foreigners catched with a joint sit in jail for years and indonesians "just made a big mistake" and walk), police men who get paid to fight drugs, get arrested as drug lords and "might lose their job" I'm here 10 years and I love Bali but....I dunno...this all here whats going on lately...I don't see any improvements :( getting all more difficult, more expensive, more xenophobic (ok we've been all the time walking wallets), more unreal....more and more frustrating! I come to the point where I believe I will keep my villa and do business somewhere else...party is over here!

sakumabali

Wow ... I must say I'm impressed! So many answers.....u guys are killing me !

sakumabali

I'm getting bit by bit so impressed that I will delete my account guys...have a good one !

Markit

Well if you're gonna get all pissy don't let the door hit you in the ass as you leave! You shouldn't take it so seriously when people don't reply to your thread - it's just cause everyone thinks you're an dickhead, but most people think the Dutch are dickheads so it aint nothing personal... :abnormal:

davita

FWIW I don't agree with Markit 's "[I]most people think the Dutch are dickheads"[/I] In about 20 minutes I'm expecting 4 visitors from the Netherlands to our villa for a dinner party...one is married to my sister in law. However, I do hear they are not big on tipping.... so maybe I'll change my mind later...:icon_rolleyes:

Adam

Markit wroteWell if you're gonna get all pissy don't let the door hit you in the ass as you leave! You shouldn't take it so seriously when people don't reply to your thread - it's just cause everyone thinks you're an dickhead, but most people think the Dutch are dickheads so it aint nothing personal... :abnormal:

I think Sakumabali is German, anyway????

Mark

Interesting question, but I would have to ask what is your reason for wanting to live in Bali? There are loads of expats in Bali, many of whom are escapists, dreamers, drifters, grifters, etc. If you don't like it or the dream doesn't work out, then just leave. No big deal... If you can make it work, then more power to you.

Markit

Suk can you take Adam with you?

Adam

Hi Sakuma, Thank you for the thread, probably the most thought provoking post this forum has had for several years and reminiscent of what we used to talk about here before the inane arrived and dominated the place. My simple answer to you question is no, I don't think Indonesia is improving. Bali in particular is going down in a screaming heap fast, I think. For a start, the place is way too overpopulated creating a society that seems to become more desperate with each generation. The environment is a basket case and it will be interesting to see if some of the islands disappear under the sea under the weight of plastic garbage or if air pollution or water crises win the war of turning the place into wasteland first. If Indonesia was anywhere but the forgivingly regenerative tropics it would already be devastated. Indonesians are their own worst enemies. Overly proud of their country (that somehow surprisingly exists as a union despite each Islands occupants seemingly despising the next), their arrogance (about what? I cannot answer) overlooks the flaws in their society and a lack of 'useful' (read non religious) education precludes them from viewing their world in a critical way, anyway. While the country might slowly becoming more financially successful,I don't think this is translating into much in the way of social progression. You only have to stand back and watch the daily happenings on any given street and kampung mentality still reigns supreme (I'm alright Jack, f*ck the rest of the world). One could be excused for believing that some don't think at all, some behaviours go completely against the grain of rational life preservation instinct. Modernity has been thrust on Indonesians quite fast and they are really struggling to cope with it (except the social media for trivial gossip bit). Sadly, a lack of worldliness amongst the majority doesn't allow them to grasp that there may be a better way of doing things. Maybe their problems are common to all developing countries, I don't know? Countries with European colonial histories have tended to be bled dry and struggled to stand on their own two feet. All that having been said, I really don't wish it was that way. I would love for the Indonesians to wake up to themselves a bit, for their own benefit, as they are an overall lovely race of people. I first went to Bali in 1992 and unfortunately I don't see a better Bali in 2015. And I think things will get worse before they get better.

Fred2

I known I don't live in Bali but I think things have changed for the better. The big problem in Bali is tourist, they are happy to pay anyone. This is the reason that Indonesian want to work in Bali. Parker in Kuta square received Rp 100,000 from a tourist mistaken Rp1,000, Police pull you over, you would rather pay Rp100,000 then Rp 25,000 at court. I was at Immigration in walks a local with t-shirt & was asked to leave because not dressed correctly, then a dutch man walks in t-shirt & short for photo & finger prints, complains about waiting & asked if he can go next as he is busy. I was in Bali just after christmas & everything was twice as much then Java, you really do pay tourist price, but when you ask a tourist they think its cheap.

Billt4SF

Adam wroteHi Sakuma, Thank you for the thread, probably the most thought provoking post this forum has had for several years and reminiscent of what we used to talk about here before the inane arrived and dominated the place. My simple answer to you question is no, I don't think Indonesia is improving. Bali in particular is going down in a screaming heap fast, I think. For a start, the place is way too overpopulated creating a society that seems to become more desperate with each generation. The environment is a basket case and it will be interesting to see if some of the islands disappear under the sea under the weight of plastic garbage or if air pollution or water crises win the war of turning the place into wasteland first. If Indonesia was anywhere but the forgivingly regenerative tropics it would already be devastated. Indonesians are their own worst enemies. Overly proud of their country (that somehow surprisingly exists as a union despite each Islands occupants seemingly despising the next), their arrogance (about what? I cannot answer) overlooks the flaws in their society and a lack of 'useful' (read non religious) education precludes them from viewing their world in a critical way, anyway. While the country might slowly becoming more financially successful,I don't think this is translating into much in the way of social progression. You only have to stand back and watch the daily happenings on any given street and kampung mentality still reigns supreme (I'm alright Jack, f*ck the rest of the world). One could be excused for believing that some don't think at all, some behaviours go completely against the grain of rational life preservation instinct. Modernity has been thrust on Indonesians quite fast and they are really struggling to cope with it (except the social media for trivial gossip bit). Sadly, a lack of worldliness amongst the majority doesn't allow them to grasp that there may be a better way of doing things. Maybe their problems are common to all developing countries, I don't know? Countries with European colonial histories have tended to be bled dry and struggled to stand on their own two feet. All that having been said, I really don't wish it was that way. I would love for the Indonesians to wake up to themselves a bit, for their own benefit, as they are an overall lovely race of people. I first went to Bali in 1992 and unfortunately I don't see a better Bali in 2015. And I think things will get worse before they get better.

Interesting. FWIW, I actually think that much of your statement could be almost directly applied if you change the word "Indonesia" to "America". I mean, I do have those some complaints about us Yanks: We are our Own worst enemies Overly proud of our country Arrogance (in spades!) lack of education (I was a teacher for 13 years) financial success not translating into societal benefit : "I'm alright -- the heck with you!" too much trivial social media Finally, I'm not too sure we are a "lovely race of people". But, maybe. I don't mean to be glib, just that some of this is peculiar to "human nature" (with screaming fast technological change pressuring it). Just a thought that struck me while I was reading your post. - Bill