Immigration On the Prowl for Villa Renters

Rangi

[quote="Markit, post: 101624"] Methinks it's getting time to find another island in the sun!?[/QUOTE] Why would we need to go to another Island when we are doing nothing wrong.

Markit

Even if you/we are doing nothing wrong [U]now[/U] it may only be a matter of time until we are the way the wind seems to be blowing in here in Indonesia. Ask the Bali 9 (soon to be 7?). Frankly this isn't the type of "paradise" I was looking for... Who knows I might want to own a house or a car sometime, start a business or just smoke some week.

Smoke

sorry about your friends breaking the law .Hope all works out better for them .

Markit

Friends of mine got an unpleasant, and possible life-changing, surprise last Friday when they were invited to attend a meeting at the local immigration offices. They were due to go there on the 15th anyway to extend their retirement Kitas but it was a surprise to be invited in on the following Monday with the information that the immi had evidence that they had been renting their villa out illegally. They arrived at the offices at the appointed time (11am) but were taken into another building than they usually came to and then they were asked to sit down in front of 4 empty prison cells where they had to wait 2 hours until the official returned from his ceremonies at 1pm. The following interview took until 5pm and was then set to protocol and all parties had to sign. The friends now have the most horrible time in front of them awaiting the outcome of these events which can be blacklisting(thrown out of Indonesia for an indefinite span), white listing(not sure what this means), payment of a fine or some other "solution". They were informed at the end of the "interview" that prison was not going to happen - in their case, but could in others. This was because they had admitted that they had only rented their villa out a grand total of 5 days in the last 3 years. How did they fall fowl of the law? If you want to know how they were caught just type your name and the word "Bali" in a google search box - because that's what the immi do now [U][B]in every case of a Kitas renewal![/B][/U] They had created a website to advertise their villa. Job done - goodbye Bali! Possibly. Methinks it's getting time to find another island in the sun!?

davita

Is renting one's personal property to friends or associates on something like craigslist an illegal act....or is advertising as a business the reason for suspicion? On a similar subject last February about what is legal in RI re: 'working in Bali on the internet'....I offered the same argument to critical comments...viz... "WNA's coming to Indonesia to organize events in Sanur, advertising for students and renting out villas thru' airbnb, 'might' be seen as requiring a work permit." Edit: Smoke says your friends broke the law...yet even he is sympathetic

spicyayam

[QUOTE][COLOR=#333333]If you want to know how they were caught just type your name and the word "Bali" in a google search box - because that's what the immi do now [/COLOR][U][B]in every case of a Kitas renewal![/B][/U] [COLOR=#333333]They had created a website to advertise their villa. Job done - goodbye Bali! Possibly.[/COLOR][/QUOTE] Interesting but if you read any advertisements for rentals people rarely put any name in the ad. Except maybe on Airbnb where people have at least their first name and a photo.

Beck

Immigrasi think they are smart to use Google. I am sure your friends will get an generous offer of some kind to correct their wrong doings against the people of Indonesia. Nasty experience for sure though. I highly doubt immigrasi's sole motivation here is to uphold any kind of rules and regulations. Sure you may not rent the villa without a pondok visata but a website is not proof of anything really. Even an Indonesian official understands that hence the need for your friends to sit infront of some empty prison cells a few hours. Then again in Indonesia justice simply follows money. Better pay up and lesson learned. Thanks for the heads up!

Smoke

Edit: Smoke says your friends broke the law...yet even he is sympathetic[/QUOTE] @davits I NOT sympathetic. Know if markit's friend is forced to leave Bali it is possible he would move to the "South" where the cold Bingtangs flow from early morning to late at night if you desire with plenty of young brown women around .

spicyayam

[QUOTE][COLOR=#333333]Apart from the above has anyone also considered how easy it would be to make someones life hell by paying a few hundred to get a bogus website built and then pointed it out to immigration?[/COLOR][/QUOTE] My thoughts exactly. Also how easy is it to take someone's pictures and set up fake profile on FB. I know it happened to someone. Posts critical of Indonesia were then made on that profile in order to try and get them deported.

davita

Markit wroteMethinks it's getting time to find another island in the sun!?

Markit wroteFrankly this isn't the type of "paradise" I was looking for... Who knows I might want to own a house or a car sometime, start a business or just smoke some [COLOR="#FF0000"]week[/COLOR].

Have you tried Penang? Malaysia offers a 10 year renewable visa called MM2H. It can be a DIY application. You are permitted to work, in a recognized profession?, for 20 hours a week. You can own property but there are a few restrictions on numbers and cost...I believe the minimum in Penang is still approx US$150,000 but KL is double...although you wont get much for that money. All income from outside Malaysia is tax-free and you can buy a tax-free, made in Malaysia, car....or import from one's home country. I believe the cost of living is much like Bali's. They encourage to own a business and employ locals...and you can smoke any 'week'....or month...but not in hotels or public places...there's always a downside:distant: edit...Malaysia is on the list to condemn the Paris shooters.

Markit

My friend is almost 70 and retired to a peaceful and healthy Bali - ha, ha. I had advised him to admit to nothing and go down fighting but after a long weekend of unknowing fear about the coming interview and being subject to 2 hours sitting in front of empty prison cells with his wailing and crying wife by his side I fear that his psychological state was prone to "getting it all off his chest" and over with in the hope of saving his house. How many of us (that have led a jail-free life) would have reacted differently? Apart from the above has anyone also considered how easy it would be to make someones life hell by paying a few hundred to get a bogus website built and then pointed it out to immigration? Adding more icing to the cake, immi are also hanging out on social media sites where apparently people discuss availability and pricing for their villa rentals - a copy of these conversations will also be made available after jail-cell sitting. Watch this space...

Smoke

[MENTION=1532]Markit[/MENTION] will you be having a packing up party ? and will there be free Bintang if so I will help drink it seriously ,why can't people just follow the law? Is it cause in there home country they would do the same ?

Markit

Smoke you are an idiot. A nice idiot but nevertheless... I think that you and "the law" only have a fleeting acquaintance and most of the rest of us have no clue what the law is here. We are in very good company with the Indonesian police and judiciary - they also are "challenged". Therein lies the danger to all of us. In the brainless application of some law by some bureaucrat that could demolish our lives here. Smoke just wait until you've been here long enough for the ink to dry on your Kitas.

Smoke

you know you can not work with a retirement kitas/kitap correct ? you know a rental unit needs a pondok wisata ? correct ? that enough or should I link [B]you[/B] to your posts about them how about your post helping an Expat out with the name and phone # to help them get a pondok wisata or has life in the east killed your remaining brain cells ?

Markit

spicyayam wroteMy thoughts exactly. Also how easy is it to take someone's pictures and set up fake profile on FB. I know it happened to someone. Posts critical of Indonesia were then made on that profile in order to try and get them deported.

I guess that's now my major concern with living here. Till recently the scales seemed to be relatively balanced as to risk and adventure and that was something I was willing to deal with but I'm not sure that calculation is still relevant. "People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!". At the moment it seems like the entire Indonesian expat community is living in a glass time-share with no IMB on a pebble beach (probably too close to the high-tide mark) and folks this isn't by any means just my opinion. I personally know of 2 men in their 70's that have each lived on Bali over 25 years that are seriously considering moving on to somewhere "nice". These guys have had wives, kids, houses, the whole "life" thing here - so not an easy or light decision. For a fact one has cancelled his 5 year Kitas and gone for the Social. Anyone wanna buy a really nice villa or 2?

spicyayam

[QUOTE][COLOR=#333333]For a fact one has cancelled his 5 year Kitas and gone for the Social. [/COLOR][/QUOTE] Why? That doesn't make sense to me.

Beck

[b]And the law protects me?[/b] In a way you are right Smoke. You should follow the laws of the country where you live. But even if you do that as good as you can in a country like Indonesia it does not mean you will never have any problems with the authorities or other parties. Follow the law and the law will protect you. That is the unfortunately not the reality in Indonesia. Not for foreigners nor for Indonesians themselves. Authorities are oppurtunistic and entreprenurial and you are their potential prey. Don't make enemies and watch your back.

Markit

spicyayam wroteWhy? That doesn't make sense to me.

Because at the ripe old age of 73 and after living it large here in Candi Dasa for the last 27 years he's convinced that it's getting so bad here for Bule that he doesn't want to waste his money for the 5 year Kitas as he probably won't be staying that long.

Smoke

Markit wrote Chaos still is everywhere but it's not so much fun anymore and seems to have a direction that I don't much like - maybe that's only me?

I think it you , you need a day of JW and chasing little brown women ..and NO not my Daughter !.. As you have stated it choas everywhere ! even in immigtation with different needs/wants on visa requiremnets , at the overseas RI embassys/consulates on what they demand for or not do with Visas. and dont think there is no chaos on RI websites non updated ,old information So when and where for JW ?

Markit

Smoke wroteyou know you can not work with a retirement kitas/kitap correct ? you know a rental unit needs a pondok wisata ? correct ? that enough or should I link [B]you[/B] to your posts about them how about your post helping an Expat out with the name and phone # to help them get a pondok wisata or has life in the east killed your remaining brain cells ?

To explain it seems hard but I'll try: The most important thing that originally attracted me to SE Asia was that it seemed where ever you went there was this all-pervading feeling of benevolent chaos. Be it in the markets or the government buildings the police stations and pretty much everywhere else. Life was fun and not taken terribly seriously. Chaos still is everywhere but it's not so much fun anymore and seems to have a direction that I don't much like - maybe that's only me?