Is it me the last one!

mugwump

Although I don't always agree with Markit he keeps things from going to must and dust on this forum. Knowledge of environmental concerns isn't exactly my forte, but I realize that mangroves do perform an important role in being a conduit in processing salt water to fresh living where other plants couldn't. When one important factor such as this is impaired in salt water there is a chain reaction in the system.God only knows the depth of the impurities in in Benoa Harbor, but removing any filtering agents can't be beneficial.

Markit

I really don't think we can look at any project here in terms of US(Balinese) and THEM(Jakarta+) but in terms of Indonesians and foreign. Fact is there is pretty much total control on foreigners working here as we all know! And lets not lose sight of the fact that Bali is just one of 16,000+/- islands here so a little mangrove here or there aint gonna break the bank.

Markit

Ok this has been pissingme off for a while: [h=1]When a Bay Becomes a Quagmire[/h] [h=2]Editorial: We Support Jakarta Globe Call for President Joko Widodo to Cancel the Benoa Bay Reclamation [COLOR=#ff0000](Why? anyone that's been on the toll-bridge will know that it's just a bunch of water with some trees around it? Ok I get that mangroves are gonna save the world but I reckon that a bunch of jobs for poor people will do a shete-load more)[/COLOR][/h] [TABLE="align: right"] [TR] [TD]

[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Click Image to Enlarge[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] (12/20/2014) The Jakarta Globe recently published an editorial titled “Benoa Bay Doesn’t Have to Be Jokowi’s Legacy.” [COLOR=#ff0000]the poor fecker just got the job so don't you all think it might be a little early to be taking "legacy"?[/COLOR] Well-written and insightful, the editorial urged the President to annul the permits for the controversial reclamation project in Benoa Bay, labeling it a controversial remnant left by former President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono that Indonesia’s new Chief Executive Does not need to embrace as his own. [COLOR=#ff0000]Why is every tree hugger against building in the middle of the ocean? Is it the "SAVE THE CLAMS" crowd?[/COLOR] Urging Joko Widodo to give full vent to his demonstrated image as a “protector of the environment” and populist leader, the editorial cited a recent lambasting given by the President to the devil-may-care attitude of large plantation companies that who set forest fires that pollute the entire region in order to widen the coverage of their plantation projects. [COLOR=#ff0000]Won't happen on the ocean [/COLOR] The Jakarta Globe editorial urged Joko Widodo to affirm the widespread opposition to the Benoa Bay reclamation project railroaded through in the waning days of the SBY presidency at the behest of the powerful business group behind the project who brazenly presents themselves as a protector of the mangrove forest that will be largely destroyed if their project goes ahead. [COLOR=#ff0000]Anyone else ever gone for a picnic in a mangrove forest? me neither. [/COLOR] Suggesting that political payback should be ignored in the face of the public outcry against the project, the editorial called for the project to be stopped, or at the very least, halted and be put under critical review. The editorial also underlined how those opposed to the reclamation are genuine members of the Balinese community and not the “rent-a-crowd” masses increasingly mobilized by the rich and powerful in Indonesia seeking to legitimize their positions behind public rallies.[COLOR=#ff0000] Whoa dude! Hold them horses - how can the project be the baby of the rich classes and at the same time they are responsible for the "rent-a-crowd" lot that are against it?\/? Is it meeee??[/COLOR] We endorse the Jakarta Globe editorial and urge the President to bring this dark chapter that is fomenting division in Balinese society quickly to an end by appointing a blue ribbon, independent committee to review the environmental, social and cultural impact of the Benoa Bay reclamation project. [COLOR=#ff0000]The guys that are running this project should just buy a Babi guling for everyone involved and a bottle of Tuak and all will be peace and harmony IMHO [/COLOR] Such a committee should also be tasked to review the protocols and procedures used in appointing the company selected to head the Benoa Bay reclamation. Such a massively important decisions should not have been made behind closed doors and, instead, should have been put up to a competitive bid system to ensure the public derives the greatest possible benefit from surrendering their lands to the private sector. [COLOR=#ff0000]OHHHH!!! so it aint about the project, as such, but about who gets to play... now I get it!![/COLOR] Clearly, the people of Bali await President Joko Widodo to once again prove his true stripes as a populist President [COLOR=#ff0000]Or a pussy to you?[/COLOR]

davita

Markit's recent utterances on the forum about any projects in Bali's Benoa Bay has opened an agenda for debate, hopefully positive....viz...do the Indonesian proletariat have a clue on how to move forward, or, so chaotic they still require leadership by elites....who are not vulnerable to graft? IMO....Over the last 10 years, and I'm talking about RI and not simply Bali, I'm sure most expat members will have seen great advances in Indonesian's standard of living. I know there will be some who say that not all have benefitted by the same parameters, but the middle-class (which I cannot define) have surely...by a massive amount of people and by any level of standard...been successful in raising their standard of life in RI. Indonesia has been an incredible success story... defying logic! The fact it's still a united country makes Yugoslavia, Serbia, Croatia and other EU countries that had great tradition, education and resource...look kinda stupid the way they now deny and hate each other. I'm not suggesting that Indonesia is yet a regulated country... it has a long way to go.......viz.... I was in PIM Mall in Jakarta, this afternoon, and witnessed the simple and beautiful act of children skating in the fake ice-rink in front of Sogo. In my day in Scotland, 70 years ago, we intrinsically learned to skate anti/clockwise so as not to interfere with other skaters...in PIM they skated any which way [B]undirected[/B]....which created gridlock and, fortunately, not very serious accidents....maybe that's where the learning program should start.... invite comments.:cupcake:

ferdie

Don't let the locals heard you saying Bali is only one of many islands Markit, Balinese now are more sensitive than their previous generation :icon_e_biggrin: And I choose to live in Bali, so I prefer the mangrove trees here still exist even if its just a small portion of what it used to be

ferdie

The group behind this project is one of the most powerful clan in Indonesia so I think even if Jokowi wanted to stopped the project, it would cost him dearly But putting aside the politic and environment factor, I think the project will create more income but will be distributed to less people. There's a lot of people's income connected to Benoa now and once the project started, most of them would lose the income When the project is completed, most of the work will go to trained people in the hospitality industry instead of locals and the profit mainly went to the group in Jakarta which will create more tension with locals (all the money goes to Jakarta, locals only get the bread crumbs, blablabla) Who will help the fishermen, water sports crew, local warung owner, seaweed farmer, and at least a few hundreds of people who gets their income taken away simply because of the big project? Check the staff at the hotels around you (3 stars and above) and ask where did they come from? most of them are not from the local villages, so what did the locals gonna do when their income is gone?

Markit

ferdie wroteDon't let the locals heard you saying Bali is only one of many islands Markit [COLOR=#ff0000]what? they can't count? or they think Indonesia is on a continent?[/COLOR], Balinese now are more sensitive than their previous generation :icon_e_biggrin: And I choose to live in Bali, so I prefer the mangrove trees here still exist even if its just a small portion of what it used to be

I wouldn't know a fecking mangrove if one hit me but sounds like the kind of place I'd "hang with the buds" ala "Mancave" which I've always thought had this aura of forced anal sex, but that's just me...?

Rangi

Couldn't find a feck to give about this, looked hard too.