My business ideas falling apart - any comments / ideas to hep please?

Bali Blue

Hi everyoneAnother new member looking for some help / experience please ...We had plans to develop a small web-based business but that offered travel guidance on locations for holidays etc. Funding for our time to set it up would be paid for by direct hotel booking commissions. We are aware of the levels of compeition and our plans are not for somthing that would seek to buy us expensive cars or yachts. We've now learnt (via this forum) that there are no licences being issued in Bali for a new 'travel agency'. We had two business models in mind, one where we would have our own booking system and take commissions direct, ie would be 'earning' in Bali, the other would be where we affiliated our site with an existing hotel booking business and got paid a cut of their commissions, these could be paid into a bank in another country.If our ideas could only be called a travel agency then model 1 would be out but model 2 might work since no income is being generated in Bali. The website hosting would be overseas as well.....thoughts anyone? We have heard of many people operating their internet business from Bali, is this in that category? Once the website is set up there would be little 'work' to do as such. Alternatively, if model 2 still doesn't work, does anyone know if we could get around things by seeking a CV for a 'online hotel booking' business? I should say that I am an expat but my wife is Indonesian and it would be her business. I am on a spouse-sponsored Kitas and think I can work work for her company in some kind of advisor capacity ... is this correct? In all of this we don't want to do anything that is the slightest bit 'dodgy', we always feel that such things come back to bite you!Many thanks

balibule

We've now learnt (via this forum) that there are no licences being issued in Bali for a new 'travel agency'. Many thanks[/QUOTE]Yes and no.Yes, no new licenses are issued at the moment.No, you can still buy a second hand license from an existing travel agent that is looking to sell his business (and his license).

Bali Blue

Yes and no.Yes, no new licenses are issued at the moment.No, you can still buy a second hand license from an existing travel agent that is looking to sell his business (and his license).[/QUOTE]Thanks. I am (well was) building my own website since we started up costs to be minimal. I was offered a licence .... for 100,000,000 !!!

ferdie

Bali Blue

I used to work on the travel business and I think you have some options for your plan but you have to be prepare for the fierce competition and the profit are thin.If you want to open a travel, there's some options for you:1. buy a franchise with one of the big ones 2. buy the secondhand license such as balibule suggestion 3. Be a freelance marketing for a travel and get a profit sharing on every single order you generateFor the web based business, the competition is crazier than the travel agency.For example : Ag*da.com is expanding rapidly in Bali, even the small home stay is being targeted as their partner, you have a big task on getting potential hotels and customers for the website if you decide to go with your planBut who knows? you might get lucky and get your own niche market from your country, so best of luck:icon_biggrin:[/QUOTE]Thanks FerdieMy business model '2' equates to your number 1 - with Agoda and Booking.com etc you can become and affilaite parter for free I ruled out your 2 in my previous reply, I truly know I'm not going to make a fortune so would never recoup my investmentYour 3. was my business model 1 but the 'travel agency' licence issue rules that out ...... unless as I asked before, I can get a CV as a hotel booking company only, no flights, no tours etcAre you thinking that a web based business is not a 'travel agency'?

SHoggard

I know a thing or two about generating web income (or not, as the case may be): my company has a business news website that generates in excess of 1,500 unique visitors a day - monetizing it is the probelm.I don't see your ideas 1, 2 or 3 as viable projects.1. as you discovered - no license2. You ask: [I]Are you thinking that a web based business is not a 'travel agency'?[/I], got it in One:- a website is a website - a travel agency is a travel agency (makes contracts with airlines/hotels/car rental etc etc.... , in most countries, must carry a bucket-full of insurance to cover customers incase the bookings go belly-up): Travel agents have websites - websites don't have travel agents (eg: ALL of the major money making travel product sites had, at some stage in their past someone who ran, or knows how the travel business operates and has the contacts to do deals long before they hired a coder (in today's world if you have the business-plan, the contacts and the budget; you can hire a coder in India for less than $10/hour) 3. Affiliate deals - what can YOU offer mega sites such as agoda or booking.com (or trip adviseer's multi sites, asiarooms, zuji, etc etc)? Sure they'll slip you a buck if you pass some business their way, but what exactly are you offering that they don't already have (or can buy for less than $10/hr)? - Contracts with hotels? As ferdie said agoda is now signing the homestays, suggesting that they've already signed up the bigger hotels and are now 'bottom feeding' in the market.- Traffic? Well you have to have something on the site to bring in the traffic - so what exactly would your 'content' be?Don't be discouraged, this isn't the first thread from someone creative who had a great idea to launch a website aimed at the room-rental tourist market when in reality it was just a different looking (but pretty) GUI.Back to the drawing-board: Best think of something entirely unique, that people actually NEED and will keep returning to that doesn't exist yet... rather than reinventing the wheel.

Bali Blue

A good challenge SHoggard and you've actually made me feel positive as opposed to negative !! My target area is specific and I have done my research in terms of competitor sites, talking to numerous hotels and many tourists. Feedback has been very positive and confirms my own views of need. Agoda don't have all the hotels and neither do Asia Rooms or even Booking.com - a lot but not all and I can get around 5% of the booking with no leg work etc on my part to sign places up. I'm not looking to make a living, it's just something to keep me occupied and give me a bit extra in the Bintang fund! So to my BIG question, are you saying I don't need a CV if I have a web-based business or if I do then the business is 'running a website'? Surely I'd have to say what the website does and then someone calls it a 'travel agency' ...

SHoggard

A CV... do you mean a Curriculum Vitae??? Jez I can't imagine having to trot my CV out every time I want to speak to someone!"[I]5% of the booking with no leg work etc on my part to sign places up[/I]" hmmm, you don't have a website or anything yet, and you're confident of that, good! No legwork, build it & they'll come... ok"[I]Surely I'd have to say what the website does and then someone calls it a 'travel agency'[/I]Isn't that the 1st line of your Business Plan: [I]Lesson 101: Define your business in less than 15 words [/I]

Bali Blue

joji gulapetis

Problem with a CV (even though it is much easier to set up and run) is that if the CV goes into debt, you are personally responsible for that debt, and they can take your personal assets to repay the CV debt, whereas in a PT they can only take the assets of the PT company to cover any company debts.

Fred2

I'm not sure but are the travel agency license only restricted in Bali?? The base company is UD (one Indonesian), CV company (two Indonesian) If it is internet based do you need a license?

spicyayam

I would suggest getting your business going before you start a CV. I think you need to spend a bit more time brainstorming ideas. Are you saying the travel agency licence is 100,000,000 rupiah? About $10,000? Travel agents as a business are slowly dying in most countries. I could see them lasting a bit longer in Bali because of the tourism and the fact many people don't have credit cards. Agoda are very good at what they do and I wouldn't try to compete with them. I would sign up to their affiliate program, a much easier way to make money IMO. You just need to develop a website that gets good traffic that is related in some ways to travel/hotels. It doesn't just have to be about Bali. You might get somewhere with villa owners that don't have the time or know-how to do online marketing.

SHoggard

As a foreigner can you actually start a CV? I've never heard of it - though I've only been looking in the context of property

spicyayam

As a foreigner can you actually start a CV? I've never heard of it - though I've only been looking in the context of property[/QUOTE]No, but the OP said his wife was Indonesian. They aren't too expensive to set up, but you do need to make monthly reports even if you aren't making any money.

SHoggard

Ah then he needs to read the threads on property ownership (a company is a property) pre-nup or at the very least have a POA ... but seriously as a website hosted offshore & if he's going to make buckets of dosh from agoda...why bother with a local registration?But I agree with Matsaleh - concept needs some more brainstorming I'm also puzzled by the "I can get 5%"..... 5% of what?The hotel rooms in Bali? Agoda's market share? Bali Travel related Internet traffic?

spicyayam

A pre-nup shouldn't be required for a company, only for property. In their affiliate program Agoda pays 35% of their comission at the lowest range. [URL]https://partners.agoda.com/partner_faq.html#html17[/URL] So the more bookings you can get, the greater the percentage. I think it works out roughly 5% of the value of the total booking.

SHoggard

A pre-nup shouldn't be required for a company, only for property. [/QUOTE]Very true spicy, but as I said 'a company is a property' - consider all the threads warning not to use your Indonesian spouse as nominee without a pre-nup, in case the marriage goes sour.So consider what happens in the case of a CV held in the wife's name, he's loose everything, status in Indonesia, home, family..... AND his business!Anyway, the case is moot... he's already married, so presumably no PRE-nup

Fred2

Very true spicy, but as I said 'a company is a property' - consider all the threads warning not to use your Indonesian spouse as nominee without a pre-nup, in case the marriage goes sour.So consider what happens in the case of a CV held in the wife's name, he's loose everything, status in Indonesia, home, family..... AND his business!Anyway, the case is moot... he's already married, so presumably no PRE-nup[/QUOTE]Im not sure what your on about SHoggard, a CV is not property & you cannot use your spouse as a nominee, if you have a prenup she can hold the title in her name. A CV is two Indonesian 50/50 & if your marriage goes south (less then 10yrs)you lose everything including your Kitas & if she knows you have property with a nominee you will lose that too.

SHoggard

Fred, I didn't say a CV was a property - I said a Company is a property - not in the form of land, house etc but in the form of an asset.- The OP (as a foreigner) seems to think he has a viable business idea- He seems to think that he needs his business registered as some form of legal entity in Indonesia- He seems to think a CV is a good corporate vehicle to use to register the business (dispite being told foreigners can't start CVs) - This decision appears primarily based on the cost of registering a PT - His wife (an Indonesian) can enter into a CV (with another Indonesian) - SO the OP would technically be using his wife as a nomineeAt no time have I agreed with any of his thinking up to this point...... But, in order to protect his ASSet in the event of the marriage going belly-up, I recommended that he have either a POA or Pre-nup in place, much like those who use nominees to give some access to freehold land (yes, I know you don't have faith in that system).Personally, I don't see the basic business concept as he described to be viable, or registering what he has in mind being nessicary, or the CV as being a wise choice of business vehicle.....but, IF that's his plan - then he'd better protect his ASSet.

Fred2

Like everyone I hope our marriage won't go belly up. But like some that have they walk away with nothing. I think you are right in that the op should keep the internet booking site as just that. He's wife could start a UD/CV company to do the leg work around the hotels or what ever. I have no idea if it would make money, thats something only the op can work out. I know that my wife's CV company in Surabaya did not cost that much & we have every certificate you could ask for. When I ask Immigration about me at my wife's workplace & talking to customers it not a problem, just no TV commercials :calm:. Let hope what ever the op dose, he happy like use:eagerness: