SamD
the spock wroteHere we go, she said yes and now we have to organise the wedding next year.
We plan to get married in Australia then do a celebration in Bali with our families and friends.
She heads out to her kampung very soon to tell her parents she is going to have a different religion marriage and expects to be ostracised by her parents which is truly sad and also affects me.
Anyway if someone knows a solution to keep them happy avoiding the conversion which is out of question I would be glad to hear about it.
I thought I saw something when I was digging up in the forum about a "friend of islam" conversion but I can't get a hold of it.
Cheers.
It took her four months to make up her mind? Are you sure you want to go though with this? In my humble opinion you are storing up a lifetime of grief by your actions in refusing to do a 'paper conversion' to keep her family happy. It will haunt your relationship for ever. What a terrible way to start married life, by alienating your wife's family. Shame on you. What is wrong with converting? You say it is 'out of the question' but you don't say why. It will have no effect on your life whatsoever other than keep your wife happy. If you won't do that simple thing for your marriage, then God help you in the rest of your married life.
the spock
SamD wroteIt took her four months to make up her mind? Are you sure you want to go though with this? In my humble opinion you are storing up a lifetime of grief by your actions in refusing to do a 'paper conversion' to keep her family happy. It will haunt your relationship for ever. What a terrible way to start married life, by alienating your wife's family. Shame on you. What is wrong with converting? You say it is 'out of the question' but you don't say why. It will have no effect on your life whatsoever other than keep your wife happy. If you won't do that simple thing for your marriage, then God help you in the rest of your married life.
Hey Sam,
Not really appreciating the "shame on you" bit mate, certainly no need to be judgmental and obnoxious, internet is already full of it.
Different people, different choices.
I made these choices in line with my principles, it is what it is and I'm not here to discuss them anymore as I made up my mind about it, talked with mates & family already about it so pretty sure that won't change.
I'm here to take any tips of how it could work out better if there's a guy who managed to get it right somehow without converting, I heard the "friend of islam" ceremony somewhere but I can't find the reference.
Markit
Spock people come to this forum, as opposed to Farceboogy, because we generally tend to say it like it is and there is a backlog to prove it.
We can't stop you from doing something that we've already done or seen done that has proved to be stupid but we do tend to tell you how and why.
Lots and lots of people come to live in Bali and 90% of them have an awful experience and go back heart-broken, financially poorer and humble because they've started out wrong or come with false ideas and plans that are completely idiotic but "nice".
All the people that live here have seen em come and go and frankly we are pretty sick of the stupidity, hence the "judgmental" tone sometimes.
For what it's worth I agree with SamDs analysis %200 and hope your principles will help you when (not if) it all goes terribly wrong. You just don't understand what "family" here means.
Markit
As a "friend of Islam" I figure you'll fit right in "mate".
the spock
Markit wroteSpock people come to this forum, as opposed to Farceboogy, because we generally tend to say it like it is and there is a backlog to prove it.
We can't stop you from doing something that we've already done or seen done that has proved to be stupid but we do tend to tell you how and why.
Lots and lots of people come to live in Bali and 90% of them have an awful experience and go back heart-broken, financially poorer and humble because they've started out wrong or come with false ideas and plans that are completely idiotic but "nice".
All the people that live here have seen em come and go and frankly we are pretty sick of the stupidity, hence the "judgmental" tone sometimes.
For what it's worth I agree with SamDs analysis %200 and hope your principles will help you when (not if) it all goes terribly wrong. You just don't understand what "family" here means.
Hey mate,
It's no rocket science to figure out from the majority of posts you addressed to me on this thread and others that you behave like a smart a** most of the time & you must think you're the biggest dog out there and have seen & done everything and feel the need to tell me what to do because I just don't understand otherwise my life is over.
Classic on internet forums I should say and I may have acted like you back in the days when I was active on surfing forums and 15 years old.
You made valid points however the smart-a** attitude just doesn't work at all.
Please let me remind you that I reckon I'm tall enough to think and act by myself or take advice from friends or family but I take any advice as long as there are not judgmental or smart-a** especially on sensitive & personal stuff like that.
I stated before that we are obviously all different and what could work for you or Sam may not work for others like me so I'd suggest to agree to disagree then let others speak if they think they could be of any help advising especially on a"friend of islam" ceremony they might know of.
the spock
Found it!
"We experienced family pressure to make our marriage "syah" after returning from the US in 1997 and registering with the Catatan Sipil. My wife found a sort of kyai in her father's village who performed a ceremony that looked a lot like the standard Muslim ceremony I've seen at KUA two days ago (witness/wali, prayer, etc.) but without the buku nikah. In fact, the kyai and I and anyone in attendance who cared about accuracy knew that I was "declaring respect for Islam" but not converting. This may be enough for some families."
Getting Married in Indonesia - Information for Indonesian/Expat Couples
Anyone's done it here?
Nydave
Im married to Muslim Lady and I converted,however I have never heard of Friends of Islam,but I did come across an article by a German woman last year,her situation was one where both were different religions and wanted to marry,and they made it happen but they got married in Singapore,not in Indonesia,but to do so there was a certain amount of paper work that had to be obtained in Indonesia and I think also in Germany before the ceremony took place,she has a whole article about it online,from a-z explaining how to do it,i will try to find it again and send you the link,be patient sometimes takes me a couple of days ,
Nydave
Ok,i don't know how to attach the link so you will have to type it in your seaech box and you will find it,,Indonesian-mixed-marriages.BlogSpot.com,,,that's it,i have already checked it by searching the same way and it takes you right into it,hope it helps,its very informative,let me know how you get on with it,
the spock
Nydave wroteOk,i don't know how to attach the link so you will have to type it in your seaech box and you will find it,,Indonesian-mixed-marriages.BlogSpot.com,,,that's it,i have already checked it by searching the same way and it takes you right into it,hope it helps,its very informative,let me know how you get on with it,
awesome nydave i will look into it, many thanks
spicyayam
There is a group on FB called Kawin Campur and you could pose your question there also. In the end it will be up to your wife's family and presumably the mosque they belong to. Family and religion are two of the most important things to Indonesians, if you haven't already realized. Even though my wife and I were the same religion, there were still a lot of ceremonies and preparation that we went through to get married. It was a lot of effort at the time, but looking back on it now I am glad we went through it.
Markit
I repeat: you still don't understand the meaning of family here - but you are learning.
Looking back on the thread you apparently also don't understand the meaning of annoying the people who are trying to help you so: Have a nice life.
the spock
I have an update on what is definitely hard times but I can't say I haven't been warned.
Her parents want the kids we will have one day to have an Indonesian birth certificate so they still want me to convert although they initially stated that they first wanted me to do a paper conversion and a religious wedding in her village to save face within their community. At that time to answer to my fears of having my kids circumcised or excised out of my control while I'm working overseas they said that they won't interfere with whatever decisions our couple makes to raise our kids in Islam or not but hard to know if they will comply with this in 5 or 10 year's time.
Thing is we plan to move in to Australia and have babies there so I hope there is a way to translate the oz birth certificate to Indonesia so kids can go to school in Indonesia should we need to.
This is extremely complicated.
In short: can our kids have an Indonesian birth certificate if they are born overseas or in Indonesia without a same religion marriage certificate?
Fred2
Spock it is a lot easier just to spend 4hours & convert, Her parents can organise the wedding, it will only cost 3,000aud & everyone will be happy including yourself. Anything you want to do in Indonesia later will be easy, your in-laws will not bother you, they will ask your permission as you will be the head of the family. Your children will have both Australian & Indonesian passport until 18 yrs.
Have you been to your girlfriend family to ask if you can marry the daughter? just asking as there is a lot of things that us aussies don't understand about the Indonesian culture.
Mark
Fred2 wroteSpock it is a lot easier just to spend 4hours & convert, Her parents can organise the wedding, it will only cost 3,000aud & everyone will be happy including yourself. Anything you want to do in Indonesia later will be easy, your in-laws will not bother you, they will ask your permission as you will be the head of the family. Your children will have both Australian & Indonesian passport until 18 yrs.
Have you been to your girlfriend family to ask if you can marry the daughter? just asking as there is a lot of things that us aussies don't understand about the Indonesian culture.
This is good advice. Just take it easy and follow the path of least resistance. If her family likes you and you respect them all will be just fine.
Nydave
Given the parents latest request that you do a full conversion,what do you think you will do,sorry for such a direct question,but at the beginning of your posts you were completely against doing any type of conversion,so im just wondering if the latest request will sway your decision,whatever you deside to do I wish you the best, I realize that some of the comments and replies from some of the other members on here offended you,sure everyone is different,but many of those guys have a vast knowledge and experience of how things work in Indo,and they do tend to tell it as it is,they don't hold back,and I give them credit for that,there are too many people in this world that will tell you what they know you want to hear,its an easy out for most people in all situations,but these guys are not that type as im sure you have realised, because you are not getting the answers you want to hear you shouldn't get angry or offended,i think by doing so you stand a good chance of alienating yourself from people responding to you should you ever need advice in the future,
no.idea
the spock wroteHey mate,
I reckon I'm tall enough to think and act by myself.
Does that mean short arses like myself do not have the ability to think? No wonder I bugger up so many things. It is not my brain that is to blame it is my height.
I converted to Islam 13 years back, I still have the certificate. My wife calls me the "5 minute muslim". I have no interest in religion.
Converting just made life simple.
Markit
Of the 5000+ gods worshiped on the planet Earth I'm sure yours is the real one...
no.idea
Markit, you are the only god I believe in.
the spock
I finally gave up and accepted to do the ritual only in her hometown to please the parents.
Nothing official to sign or any buku to set up so I reckon we reached some common ground there to make everyone happy.
Nydave
Hey Spock good to hear from you,and happy to know that things are working out for you,best of luck,
