Markit
Seems to me the best warning system might be a blue-tooth sender ($5 from Amazon) handed out to all divers on the boat that's linked to a mobile phone (App anyone) in the captain's pocket. Any blue-tooth sender gets too far away from the phone and an alarms sounds on the phone.
But what do I know?
Joe Writeson
davita wrotebtw...I don't even have a smartphone...mine is a $5 Nokia without a camera...it does have a radio but sadly I lost the earphone.:icon_e_sad:
...me too... it even has this amazing facility where you press numbers on the front and actually [I]speak to people[/I] with a similar device ...
davita
[COLOR="#FF0000"][/COLOR]
...me too... it even has this amazing facility where you press numbers on the front and actually [COLOR="#FF0000"]speak to people[/COLOR] with a similar device ...
Cum on joe...you're kidding me...you can SPEAK to people with your gadget:confused:.
Mine still has this ....
http://www.bl.uk/learning/images/whywrite/morse-large.jpg stuck to the back as a reminder of the message I want to send...but it is a bit faded.
davita
After a search I think some smarter people than me are onto something. Could this APP be applied to a scuba-diving operation?....
https://www.life360.com/family-locator/
balibule
davita wroteI wasn't suggesting it cannot be done in Bali but at the minimum would require 2 specialized units...one for the diver and one for the boat.
You only need one unit and even if the boat doesn't have VHF you can still push the red button and send out and alert message and your GPS position to any location within 4,000 Square Miles. And if your boat doesn't have VHF you could still try channel 16. And it is waterproof to 100+ meters.
Not perfect but better than nothing.
Bringing a cellphone on a dive could be an idea but then you'd need to have a cellphone signal which isn't always evident in the middle of the ocean. Let alone operating a cellphone while being in the ocean. You would have to take it out of the hardcase to use the phone.
davita
balibule wrote1. You only need one unit and even if the boat doesn't have VHF you can still push the red button and send out and alert message and your GPS position to any location within 4,000 Square Miles. And if your boat doesn't have VHF you could still try channel 16. And it is waterproof to 100+ meters.
Not perfect but better than nothing.
2. Bringing a cellphone on a dive could be an idea but then you'd need to have a cellphone signal which isn't always evident in the middle of the ocean. Let alone operating a cellphone while being in the ocean. You would have to take it out of the hardcase to use the phone.
1. I was envisaging divers around the reefs of Nusa Penida..the Gilis etc. Not a lot of good if you need to transmit an emergency DSC signal and the only boat that can receive the info is 1,000 miles away.
Ch16 is a VHF channel and only those listening on that channel can receive. The Search & Rescue people and craft with VHF should always listen out on CH16.....but do they?
A (waterproofed) walkie-talkie to the dive boat would be as useful...but the same limitation as the VHF would apply....neither are GPS locator equipped.
2. Again I was thinking of divers close to but unseen from the dive-boat....not in the middle of the ocean. Of course cellphones also only work above the water and would need to connect to another cellphone on board the dive-boat....not perfect either, but could be cheap as nearly everyone, 'cept me, already has a smartphone.
An APP is all that is needed to send the caller's GPS position to another cellphone on the dive-boat. The Captain could then maneuver his dive-boat, using his own smartphone GPS, to execute a rescue.
I'm constantly amazed how people can manipulate cellphones while doing other things...like riding a scooter, smoking a cigarette and talking on the phone all simultaneously....I dont think scuba-divers, treading water, would find removing the phone from a waterproof cover and pressing a button too onerous. I read that some smartphones are even waterproof, to a degree.
btw...I don't even have a smartphone...mine is a $5 Nokia without a camera...it does have a radio but sadly I lost the earphone.:icon_e_sad:
davita
I understood, from the reports, that drifting too far underwater then popping up and not seeing the dive-boat is the problem, and can be worse in bad weather. In that case it seems to me that a communicator (VHF, walkie-talkie, blue-tooth, normal cellphone, etc) would have much better value if it had a navigation feature like GPS....to locate the diver.
Balibules recommended unit has that feature but can only communicate the info to another unit with the same features.
Most smartphones have GPS and, with an APP that someone should innovate, could communicate the diver's location to another smartphone within calling range. With both smartphones lat/long info available.....navigation and rescue could be achieved without seeing the diver.....even in the dark.
In the Pacific Northwest I often practiced navigating my boat blind, except for GPS, to within the boat's length of where I wanted to be.
balibule
yes, a cell phone could work if you can keep it dry while floating on the surface. I guess you'd be screwed if there is heavy rain and high waves. You would need to loose the boat in perfect ocean conditions with little waves, no rain and nearby land so you have a signal.
I wonder why the Nautilus Lifeline hasn't build in a cell phone in their unit. Can't be so difficult unless there's no point in having it.
Smoke
There are probably a few different ways to track . I have gps tracking in my cars .It can locate my car and also disable the fuel so car dies till i allow it to function again . I am sure there are other types of GPS loction devices available . and yes even for the scooters ! my cars cost me 25,000 rupiah a month for service !
davita
My interest in this subject is being piqued.
I was sitting with my in laws in the parked car and my wife was at an ATM.
I was talking to b-in-law this subject when he showed me our position lat/long on his iphone..."That's what I'm talking about!" I exclaimed. "How can you tell my wife this over in the ATM cubicle?" He took a photo of our data and called my wife's iphone and sms'd to her.
My wife returned, wondering what this data page on her phone meant, as she hadn't a clue about its meaning....something like "WTF!" was heard.
Seems to me that a smart guy could easily progam an APP that could take the pic and synch 2 phone #'s so that a 1 button touch could transmit from a lost diver to a boat captain this location info.
All it would then need is a zip-lock type bag that can withstand the diving depths and require a 1 button push thru' the transparent bag to send a cell message.
The only cost would be a download APP and an appropriate ziplock bag.
balibule
davita wroteThe only cost would be a download APP and an appropriate ziplock bag.
Ziplock bag won't work unless it's for snorkeling only. There are a few hardcases for touchscreen phones so maybe that could work.
You'd still have an issue with connectivity.
balibule
Anyways .. a phone, gps, Nautilus, pigeon, fax machine ... . Any of these would have been better than nothing. Must be terrifying to be floating in the ocean for this long now.
matsaleh
So[FONT=Arial][COLOR=#002060]m[/COLOR][/FONT]e good news. Update on the original post:
[SIZE=2]Four of seven missing Japanese divers found alive in Bali: police[/SIZE]
Four of seven missing Japanese divers found alive in Bali: police | The Japan Times
hermit
[QUOTE]
My thinking is maybe a similar 'system' of communicating could be innovated using common smartphones, which are readily available, and therefore be inexpensive.[/QUOTE]
Maybe i am bodoh,but does that need a signal?On open sea there probably is no signal.
In that case it would be false security.
Joe Writeson
Bottom line is Divers should receive training in safety and operational procedures, they should be made aware of local conditions, currents, weather forecast etc. plus back up plans for emergency situations. The sort of thing that all professional outfits do as part of their package.
Experienced divers will know this and be suspicious of any dive shop not offering the services.
However 'baby divers' will just want to 'get in the water' rather than waste their precious holiday time 'at school' ...sometimes without realising just how little of their precious time they have left...
It all comes down to monitoring and moderating the activity ... and I doubt seriously if that will ever happen.
Joe Writeson
Double sealing clear plastic camera bags would keep the device dry, but as said, the signal would be a problem.
Limitations of bags about 50mtrs, reasonable enough for most recreational divers.
Moving slightly upmarket there are transponders and receivers available, but at a cost. The signalling device is tiny and the diver just clips it somewhere on their harness with a carabiner.
The receiver can pinpoint the diver's GPS position or when used with the right software and laptop can be superimposed on a displayed on a grid ranging in size from 3x3 mtrs to 1000 x 1000.
Expensive to buy but once purchased and set up a dive operator can guarantee to know where their subsea charges are at any given time.
Not exactly the kind of set-up you would expect to find on a five meter fishing boat converted to a SCUBA outfit though.
These is also a system that comes complete with transponders, monitoring devices, waterproof carrying case that even doubles as a floatation liferaft with built in SOS EPRIB all cables and long life batteries.
Mesotech from Canada.
Original system complete cost about USD9,500...how much is a life worth?
davita
balibule wroteZiplock bag won't work unless it's for snorkeling only. There are a few hardcases for touchscreen phones so maybe that could work.
You'd still have an issue with connectivity.
As I said I know nothing about diving. Do they go to great depths around Bali?
This is from a forum I searched and was written in 2009...."Just for fun, we took a few old cell phones on dives to see what would happen. We used ziplock baggies and a water tight housing for others. The "baggies" kept them dry, but the lcd screens imploded around 40ft..lol. The watertight camera-housing worked well. BTW. We lost cell service around 35ft, so be sure to make all your calls before that depth. Texting worked the best."
Smartphones have advanced since then so I think my idea is more feasible than I originally thought. Also, where are we talking about...I've seen people on ferries and fishing boats between Bali and Penida and Lombok on the phone all the time. No guarantee on signal of course..heck, I sometimes cannot get a signal from my bedroom but, my concept could save lives and it's cheap.
There are many DSC VHF on the market as well as the one balibule shows but the limitation here in Bali is cost, as it needs a DSC VHF receiver to get the signal for navigation purpose. In N. America, where I think must be the major market for that expensive equipment, nearly all boats out on the water are already equipped with DSC VHF......I had 2 on my boat and they were connected to my nav plotters so, if anyone was in distress, not only did it automatically call on my radio it pinpointed the location on my chart plotter.
But this is expensive equipment so I cannot visualize much use in RI.
balibule
Bali Rescue (BARES) are volunteers. I think Bali also has professionally, paid SAR team.
BARES people all carry radio's with them and although I am not familiar with the types of radios I would be surprised if they couldn't pick-up an emergency call.
balibule
davita wroteAs I said I know nothing about diving. Do they go to great depths around Bali?
You'd need a hardcase. A soft case would crush the camera. A dive on Crystal Bay to see the Mola2 is to about 25 - 35 meters but I have been deeper. That's about 3.5 to 4.5 bar of pressure (50-65psi).
I once had a diver who had a camera in one of those ziplock bags that was rated to 10 meters. He took it down deeper to have a look how the ziplock bag would hold. What happened is that because of the pressure all buttons got pushed inwards. That was a one time use camera. If you'd go to 25-35 meters I think you need a hardcase camera to withstand the pressure.
The Nautilus is USD 299 which is about the price of a cell phone and way cheaper than the USD 9,500 system Joe quotes. The Nautilus is already in use by several dive operations that cruise the remote parts of Indonesia.
Either way, very good to hear that they have been found back alive!
davita
I seem to be getting rather negative responses to my idea.
1. Hermit #36...of course a cellphone signal would be needed. In the area of diving, in and around Bali, is it 'impossible ' to get a signal? My experience is that people talk on phones on ferries between the islands all the time, so some cell signals and internet must be available...at least some of the time.
2. balibule #37...I'm not advocating a fail-free system..simply a possible cheap alternative to nothing.... or something very expensive. Most divers, I suggest, already have smartphones..so there is no extra cost.
The Nautilus needs someone similarly equipped to receive the DSC VHF message. Therefore, if you say it is in use in Indonesia then the 'system' cost must be way higher than US$299. That is the cost for one unit. If one diver has one unit...as in ghostbusters..."who yu gonna call?"
As I said, diving is something I know nothing but we have just had a dinner party and one guest is a PADI holder. He says that his licence is to 130ft. and no ziplock bag would withstand that pressure. I therefore accept that such a simple idea as mine may not be suitable for the professional. He also said many divers coming to Bali are novice, and never go anywhere near that depth.
Nevertheless, I wonder if those Japanese survivors experience could have been ameliorated if one had taken a smartphone in some modified ziplock, which survived the dive they contemplated, so they could have sent their GPS position to the rescue people...or anyone who could help. They went diving at 1pm on Friday and never re-appeared. They were reported missing at 7pm on Friday. They were discovered this afternoon (Monday) on a reef close to Nusa Penida shore....wow! if only they had a cellphone!!!
I recall our esteemed member markit, on another thread, tell a harrowing tale of his Xing between the Gili's and Amed. This brings my mind to....could a smartphone, wrapped in a ziplock, with a 1 touch APP to SOS Search and Rescue...in case of ferry incident/boat sinking/fishing accident......work?
