vcmulliss
Iam curious where do you find land available and who does it belong too, there seems to be many pitfalls to buying land and building everything i read seems to indicate you can, but it seems a lot of expats seem to have away around this how secure is that, i have read some horror stories, and who do you trust, with your money i would like a small plot so i could have a pool, ( not olympic size) and maybe a 10 mtr square house open plan, and it has to be timber (is this possible) i have already decided on my plan and would dearly love to implement my ideas just plain and simple thats me.I dont understand the money so could you please help me aussie dollars1. Approx price of land or what some of you have paid just a average i like the area towards sanur2. Just a rough guess if possible to build a timber house i have seen some expats have build houses worth 250,000.00 up to 350,000.oo which is to me over the top for bali or is this the reality of costs. Or is bali only for the super rich3. Is it better just to buy, is that safe 4. Is having a baliness son in law easier for me5. Can i take my pets with me?????? Bird dog 3 cats6. My personal items approx 500kgs 7. Just a little bit of help would settle my mind about a few things i just dont want to be ripped off and do wrong to anyone else thanks vera
ronb
..................................................I dont understand the money so could you please help me aussie dollars1. Approx price of land or what some of you have paid just a average i like the area towards sanur[/quote]I pass on this one. How long is a piece of string?2. Just a rough guess if possible to build a timber house i have seen some expats have build houses worth 250,000.00 up to 350,000.oo which is to me over the top for bali or is this the reality of costs. Or is bali only for the super rich[/quote]Again I pass on giving price estimates. But in general, buildiing costs are lower in Bali because labour is cheaper. And I wonder why you want timber. Look around Bali and you will see that most buildings have re-inforced concrete pillars and beams as the frame with red brick or concrete brick walls to fill in, then rendered. These constructions work well, last well, are overwhelmingly the local choice, so why not go with the flow.3. Is it better just to buy, is that safe [/quote]My opinion - yes. Saves hassles on issues like getting building permits, getting electricity connected, getting a water supply etc. You can buy then spend a bit on renovation.4. Is having a baliness son in law easier for me[/quote]If you trust him and if his advice is good, then he can be helpful.5. Can i take my pets with me?????? Bird dog 3 cats[/quote]Dogs - not legally. Search the forum on this topic - there is info on the legal situation, and what other options there are.6. My personal items approx 500kgs[/quote]No big problem. Go to the Indonesian Consulate before you send them and get the inventory list stamped as personal effects. 7. Just a little bit of help would settle my mind about a few things i just dont want to be ripped off and do wrong to anyone else thanks vera[/QUOTE]
vcmulliss
thanks rob. the information was very helpful sorry about the duplication post iam still on my L-Plates with the forum, i will rethink the house and look around when i come over no doubt i have lots of homework to do, but iam very excited about my future in Bali
Rambutmerah
Have you thought of renting a small house to start with? That's what I would do myself. Save you a lot of problems and give you time to look around for "your" place in the sun. There are lots of houses to rent and I don't mean the fancy villas but a reasonably nice local house.
hermit
Good information about what a house should cost(and not what is asked for it now)is the must-read column "fixed Abode"in the Bali Adveriser,wich you can read online. [url]www.baliadvertiser.bizz[/url] So far there are 3 articles on the subject,The prize of Paradise,What a load of Bulls,and Dribblus Lucrere.In the articles it is described in detail how costs of building should be calculated,and why many people pay about double for that.Very enlightening.
Barekarma
Hi Vera,As a expat resident here, I would support the suggestion that you first rent a furnished place in the area you would like to live, and then look round. I would also recommend that you hire a driver who knows the area. Finding places can be very difficult, as the use of numbers are a new-ish concept. For example, my road has 3 houses all numbered "7" and one house numbered "888". Currently, there are only 20 houses along our road. Also, driving here can induce terror into the most experienced Westerner. Once you let people here know you are looking for either land or a house, then you are likely to find you are shown all sorts of places. Take it slowly, and don't rush. Enjoy the options and take lots of photos if you can. They certainly help at the end of a day viewing properties, working out which one property was which.Good luck.Barekarma
vcmulliss
WOW what a read proceed with caution, will come over september for 3 weeks then come home and go back for 3 months rent and look around,i at least renting you can get the feel of things. THANKS HEAPS VERA
gilbert de jong
Good information about what a house should cost(and not what is asked for it now)is the must-read column "fixed Abode"in the Bali Adveriser,wich you can read online. [url]www.baliadvertiser.bizz[/url] So far there are 3 articles on the subject,The prize of Paradise,What a load of Bulls,and Dribblus Lucrere.In the articles it is described in detail how costs of building should be calculated,and why many people pay about double for that.Very enlightening.[/QUOTE]considering the source (mr.fixit) I would read and think twice before taking anything serious what's written in those articles.
vcmulliss
thanks gilberti read and read all the forums, some are very dated and i suppose us newbies ask the same old questions but i suppose things change a lot there, iam so excited to start me new life iam like a sponge soaking up everything i can read, my biggest problem is i trust everyone and its my life savings iam investing in this new venture housing seems to be my biggest concern, just something very simple with a pool cant wait to come over in september, thanks for the tip
gilbert de jong
no worries vcmullis, you're welcome...remember, it's just my opinion although several forummembers share my thoughts about this mr.fixit.honestly sometimes it's hard to answer the same questions over and over, but then again everybodies situation and/or question (in detail) will differ from others.so if people take the time to explain a bit behind the why/when/where/who, for sure I will take the time to respond :)first thing you really need to change (IMHO) do not trust just everybody, I am not trying to scare you or putt you off in any way okay...but it's so easy to "fall' for the balinese smiles, and you will not be the first who comes here with their life-savings just to be chewed up and spit out by Bali.so here goes by the numbers : 1: prices vary alot in Sanur (not much help there, sorry)2: Bali is certainly not only for the rich/superrich, ofcourse it will take money to build something..but one can easily build something for a whole lot less then the numbers you mention. It all depends on materials you choose to use.3: buying or building...there are alot of pro's and contra's for both options. if you find a piece of land that you like/love so much you want to live there, and there is no house.... what are you going to do? or if you find a house that totally is the way you want it, on a location you want...what are you going to do? What I mean to say is Don't commit on forehand to either buy or build, leave both options open. As for how safe is buying : it depends on your own common sense and who helps you to cross the 'T' and dot the 'I'4: having a balinese son in law, that could make a lot of things easier...5: like ronb says, pets is a no-no...but as Indonesian don't like saying no, there is a way, but it's expensive.6: see ronb comment.personal tip..come here and book/stay at a hotel or guesthouse, from there start your search for a longer term rental house.
hermit
considering the source (mr.fixit) I would read and think twice before taking anything serious what's written in those articles.[/QUOTE]I guess you read the articles before posting,so please tell us what is not right in what he has written.He only confirmed what my experience is about what things should be costing and what is asked in the market nowadays.There are undeniable facts in those articles,and no profit for mr.fixit to write them.
vcmulliss
HERMITare you refering to me or gilbert??? i asked a few questions and got honest replies i dont know who mr fixit is so i dont have any opinion on the article i wouldnt know what was right or wrong i troll the archives every day a lot of the postings are old but i still read them, i expect i will soon find out how things really work in bali i dont care how much it costs to live there we all have to pay wether in bali or aussie my main concern is the money i look on the internet at prices and think how much is that, no doubt i will soon learn,i just find it strange all the forums say no westerner can own land but they do, even though my daughter is married to a balinese, he is not street wise about land and housing because he lives in a village, and the land is there's
Rambutmerah
It's right what you read, westeners CAN'T own land or property in Indonesia. Westeners must have an Indonesian sponsor/nominee. The Indonesians name will be registrered as the owner on the certificate. Can be very tricky and many people has been had big time. Most important that you yourself keep all the paperwork and use a reputable Notari for the deal. If you'r not very careful you might end up loosing your money and property. Happens all the time and you have nothing to put against it.
hermit
HERMIT,are you refering to me or gilbert??? [/QUOTE]I included a quote of Gilberts post,so maybe that was adressed to him,dont you think?
gilbert de jong
maybe I should have worded it different, but I was a bit lazy...I should have written : some of what he writes is like 'kicking in a door that is open' or in other words pretty obvious, and people who would need that kind of 'advice' should not start building at all...some other things are just plain stupid, stupid and wrong or stupid because there's a difference in theory and practice (wich amazingly he seems not to realize).below just a small copy-paste of the "dribblus lucere' article...I think people can judge them self wich is just obvious and wich is like heFor your entertainment :) 1. Design the building completely before you start. 2. Make sure EVERYTHING is included and is fully described in the contract documents both in the drawings and the Bill of Quantities. Do not forget to include the costs of the building permit, the connection to the national PLN supply, water connection, etc. 3. Avoid making changes after construction has started. Variations should only be in exceptional circumstances 4. Get an independent fully comprehensive Bill of Quantities prepared by someone who is not going to bid for the job. This will make sure everything is included, will tell you how much the construction should cost and will also allow you to go through the itemised list and reduce costs by cutting out or reducing excessively expensive items.5. Get fixed price quotations for the work and hold the builder to them. Negotiate the contracts yourself.6. Make sure that the payment schedule is set in such a way that you have not paid too much up front or at each stage of progress.7. Get an independent progress assessment done before making progress payments. I have come across plenty of people who had a 60% completed house having already paid out 80% of the money and the builder has gone off to visit a distant relative who is seriously ill and won't be back anytime soon.8. Buy expensive items such as air conditioners yourself to avoid commissions paid to intermediaries.let me bounce the ball back to you hermit...what is iyho an undeniable fact? oh and please don't go to the explanation of architects costs (hahaha), just a short and simple fact wich is not obvious ;)
hermit
maybe I should have worded it different, but I was a bit lazy...I should have written : some of what he writes is like 'kicking in a door that is open' or in other words pretty obvious, and people who would need that kind of 'advice' should not start building at all...some other things are just plain stupid, stupid and wrong or stupid because there's a difference in theory and practice (wich amazingly he seems not to realize).below just a small copy-paste of the "dribblus lucere' article...I think people can judge them self wich is just obvious and wich is like heFor your entertainment :) 1. Design the building completely before you start. 2. Make sure EVERYTHING is included and is fully described in the contract documents both in the drawings and the Bill of Quantities. Do not forget to include the costs of the building permit, the connection to the national PLN supply, water connection, etc. 3. Avoid making changes after construction has started. Variations should only be in exceptional circumstances 4. Get an independent fully comprehensive Bill of Quantities prepared by someone who is not going to bid for the job. This will make sure everything is included, will tell you how much the construction should cost and will also allow you to go through the itemised list and reduce costs by cutting out or reducing excessively expensive items.5. Get fixed price quotations for the work and hold the builder to them. Negotiate the contracts yourself.6. Make sure that the payment schedule is set in such a way that you have not paid too much up front or at each stage of progress.7. Get an independent progress assessment done before making progress payments. I have come across plenty of people who had a 60% completed house having already paid out 80% of the money and the builder has gone off to visit a distant relative who is seriously ill and won't be back anytime soon.8. Buy expensive items such as air conditioners yourself to avoid commissions paid to intermediaries.let me bounce the ball back to you hermit...what is iyho an undeniable fact? oh and please don't go to the explanation of architects costs (hahaha), just a short and simple fact wich is not obvious ;)[/QUOTE]"and people who would need that kind of 'advice' should not start building at all..."Who are you to decide who should be building or not in Bali?This forum is intended to help those people who have no clue yet and help them to avoid making the mistakes that are still being made all the time.The above are warnings for prospective builders.Important,even if they seem useless to you.None of them is nonsense.Even is there only one item in it someone still would not know,it is still valuable.The undeniable facts are in the other articles about how prices are calculated,the breakdown of architects costs and the detailed costs of all other items.It surely is a big help for people who have no experience at all building in Bali to calculate what a house should really cost.Anyway,while slandering the author of the articles,please elucidate us on what is the base of your mistrust.It is cheap to just say things like:"oh,you know what he is like".If you have no solid story to corroborate your views you better shut up and stop confusing people who are seeking information here.
balibule
I'm building right now. I have no experience whatsoever. I have a contractor I trust (or at least I hope so). I have been reading a lot of Mr Fixit articles and I agree some of it is just common sense. However, it is nice to be reminded of it, as, although it is common sense, that doesn't always mean you had already thought of that (if you know what I mean). There's also a lot of new interesting information that is of good value to me personally. So I am happy to have access to all that information from which some applies to my project now and some not. I have to say though that at least 50% of an article is just boring and the interesting part usually starts somewhere halfway.
gilbert de jong
@hermit : is it so hard to just read what I write??? FYI, I'm not deciding who should or should not build on Bali or wherever...If one lacks common sense it's better (cheaper) to buy instead of build and not only on Bali.IMHO, like I wrote before "it's just my opinion" and as last time I checked having an opinion and voicing that opinion is still allowed (isn't it?) you don't have to agree with, because that's your opinion and right.If someone lacks the common sense (things described in other post) he/she will be better of both financial and healthwise, to not build themself but buy/lease something that's already there.Architects costs : like everything on Bali it's nego2, if buying sandals, or a villa, or a car or hiring an architect.His example of grohe ..who knows, maybe the customer specifically asked for that? so the 15jt price difference could be totally beside the point, right? Like I wanted in my house TOTO toilets and baths and sinks, ofcourse it can be cheaper when using american standard for example...Know what I mean?The 10 upto 20% architectscosts, yes if he actually does everything, and when I say everything I mean everything.10% (or more) just for drawings, like I said use common sense.About the taking it serious or not and think twice about it....someone who has a business in renovating/fixing stuff, starts helping people to make quality builds..by doing that wouldn't he put him self out of business? Scaring people is also a way to sell stuff...whatever one is selling.So like I said before, and I keep repeating myself, use your own common sense whatever he/she or I write for that matter.
