Sosbud vs Retired Visa

sailor4915

Hi all, I have been studying the differences between these 2 types of visas. Each has their benifits and drawbacks. It seems the only downside to the retired visa is the agent sponsor requirement (they can set/change the price for initial visa application and yearly renewal). Let me pose a question...what is to prevent your Sosbud visa sponsor, from becoming one of these agents (starting a CV or UD small business) and then sponsoring my retired visa (as well as being a paid sponsor for others seeking a retired visa)? Semms to kill 2 birds with one stone (good for me and an income for the sponsor). Any comments greatly appreciated.

spicyayam

I believe that agents need to have a PT now to sponsor people. Also not easy to get set up as an agent unless of course you have good contacts in immigration. If your agent puts up the prices to fast you can always just find another sponsor. There are many benefits to having a KITAS like being able to open a bank account etc. Social visa might appear cheaper but with the price of extensions, visa runs and of course your time, if you can get the retirement visa I would say go for that.

ronb

sailor4915 wrote ........................ It seems the only downside to the retired visa is the agent sponsor requirement (they can set/change the price for initial visa application and yearly renewal). ................

While I hear that the prices charged for sosbud by some agents have been going up - as far as I can see the prices for retirement visa have come down a bit over the last 5 years. I am not sure exactly why, but probably over that time more agents have got into retirement visas, so maybe its just the competition.

Fred2

sailor4915 wroteHi all, I have been studying the differences between these 2 types of visas. Each has their benifits and drawbacks. It seems the only downside to the retired visa is the agent sponsor requirement (they can set/change the price for initial visa application and yearly renewal). Let me pose a question...what is to prevent your Sosbud visa sponsor, from becoming one of these agents (starting a CV or UD small business) and then sponsoring my retired visa (as well as being a paid sponsor for others seeking a retired visa)? Semms to kill 2 birds with one stone (good for me and an income for the sponsor). Any comments greatly appreciated.

Visa agents with the right license are the only people that can sponsor retirement visa. So not all agents can be a sponsor. With the change in Immigration law sobud visa will be harder to get, Immigration have already started doing checks on sponsors & visa holders, including interviews.

gilbert de jong

the suggested downside.."they can set/change the price for initial visa application and yearly renewal" -No they can't. and it's not an agent who's sponsoring a retirement visa, it's the company he/she works for...and like Fred2 wrote, only those who are licensed by the indonesia government (jakarta) can do so. and like spicy wrote, only company's with a PT status can be issued these licenses. so for a sosbud-sponsor to become a licensed PT visa agency is quite a bit of work, and takes quite a bit of money. just a little math...basic cost for sosbud 400.000...4 extensions at 500.000 is already 2,4jt fly out and back 1,5jt (cheap, no accomodation/food/etcetc)... and again the 2,4jt for 6 months...4,8jt + 1,5jt = 6,3jt a year retirement-KITAS..5,5jt

sailor4915

Well, that answers that. Thanks for all the responses. The agent that I emailed (in Bali) charged $750 US all in. I thought that was a bit steep. 5,5jt sounds better, but over the 5 years, that is still 27,5jt...no small price. I guess the idea is to shop around.

gilbert de jong

cheaper then 5,5 jt...would be a hard thing to find.. and after 2 years of having a retirement Kitas, you could apply for a KITAP wich will be valid for 5 years... meaning, 11 jt for the first 2 years, then aprox 8 jt for the conversion to KITAP...that comes down to 19jt for 7 years :icon_wink:

phil170258

and remember kitas gives you other money-saving advantages eg cheaper price at hospitals

pollyanna

sailor4915 wroteWell, that answers that. Thanks for all the responses. The agent that I emailed (in Bali) charged $750 US all in. I thought that was a bit steep. 5,5jt sounds better, but over the 5 years, that is still 27,5jt...no small price. I guess the idea is to shop around.

In the beginning it seemed high to me also but I look at the KITAS fee as the way I pay taxes in this country although admittedly the services are slack or even non-existent in Indonesia.

gilitea

pollyanna wroteIn the beginning it seemed high to me also but I look at the KITAS fee as the way I pay taxes in this country although admittedly the services are slack or even non-existent in Indonesia.

sorry i don't understand, why do you feel the need to pay tax if you are not earning a wage in indonesia?

gilbert de jong

she doesn't pay tax nor the need to pay tax, she pays kitas fee's...and it's a yearly payment, same as taxes..that's all (i think) I do wonder what/wich services do you mean with "services are slack or even non existent"?

pollyanna

gilitea wrotesorry i don't understand, why do you feel the need to pay tax if you are not earning a wage in indonesia?

I’m not saying I feel the need to pay tax, just that I view the KITAS as a form of tax payment. But to answer the question a little further, I do take advantage of the government services available such as driving on public roads. Past the roads I can’t think of what the government provides, especially when compared with other countries I’ve lived in where we had libraries, medical care, fire service, police services, etc.

ronb

gilitea wrotesorry i don't understand, why do you feel the need to pay tax if you are not earning a wage in indonesia?

We all use the infrastructure like roads, airports and inter-island ferries. We all use, or benefit from subsidized fuel, and many benefit from subsidized electricity. And I think most of us want to see government expenditure on education, health, police and welfare continue to increase even if we are not direct users of these services. So why would you think that income tax from wage earners is the only sensible way to fund all this government spending?

hermit

gilbert de jong wrotecheaper then 5,5 jt...would be a hard thing to find.. and after 2 years of having a retirement Kitas, you could apply for a KITAP wich will be valid for 5 years... meaning, 11 jt for the first 2 years, then aprox 8 jt for the conversion to KITAP...that comes down to 19jt for 7 years :icon_wink:

Sorry to contradict you Gilbert,for the Retirement Kitap,wich is still dependent on the licensed sponsor,the prices vary around 30 juta. If you have an agent that charges 8 juta for the Kitap,i would be glad to meet him.

gilbert de jong

no worries ronB, Bali Ide did it for my mam... I said to them, what's the point of converting to a KITAP if you guys (well it was a woman) just do 5 x 5,5jt.. You don't have to do paperwork each year, therefor your 'costs' go down... and I am sure we can come to an arrangement or I will shop around for another agent to do my future paperwork, my mams and other friends that I have brought to you over the last couple of years without asking for some kind of commission from you..."silent for a moment"..and out came the figure of 8jt :highly_amused:

gilitea

I understand now, basically you see the cost of the KITAS as form of revenue raising to help pay for infrastructure and public services which, you are quite right, we all use here.

sailor4915

I can see your point too, IF the fees for the retired visa (and KITAS) actually went to the government. As far as I can see they go to a PT company and I doubt any of them are building any roads. :)

pollyanna

sailor4915 wroteI can see your point too, IF the fees for the retired visa (and KITAS) actually went to the government. As far as I can see they go to a PT company and I doubt any of them are building any roads. :)

Yes, I’m aware that my KITAS agent gets part of the money as commission for his work and time. I don’t know how much of it goes directly to the government but I’ll bet Fred2 can tell us.

hermit

[b]Discount[/b]

gilbert de jong wroteno worries ronB, Bali Ide did it for my mam... I said to them, what's the point of converting to a KITAP if you guys (well it was a woman) just do 5 x 5,5jt.. You don't have to do paperwork each year, therefor your 'costs' go down... and I am sure we can come to an arrangement or I will shop around for another agent to do my future paperwork, my mams and other friends that I have brought to you over the last couple of years without asking for some kind of commission from you..."silent for a moment"..and out came the figure of 8jt :highly_amused:

Yes Gilbert,that is a discount that makes sense,and it is proof most of the money goes to the agent. Once more it convinces me it would be a wise thing to start an expat pressuregroup to deal with greedy people like this. How does EXPAT UNITED sounds? BTW,i am Hermit,not RonB.

Fred2

pollyanna wroteYes, I’m aware that my KITAS agent gets part of the money as commission for his work and time. I don’t know how much of it goes directly to the government but I’ll bet Fred2 can tell us.

I will check next week but last time I looked a retirement visa was under 1jt. Its good to see people funding visa agents. I think there are a few agents lurking around the forum, maybe they can tell us how the money is split up??????????