Staff wages

homeinbali

hermit

I have read previous posts concerning staff wages but cannot find anything on cook/chef wages. The minimum wage suggests around 900,000 a month but for what type of job is this? We currently hire a guy to keep an "eye" on things at this price and he has literally got way with doing nothing for nearly 2 years. (our fault)Shortly we will be advertising for a cook and I need to know what the current wages paid are, I know it may have something to do with experience, type of cooking, how many people, type of workplace so this is what we are looking forWestern and Asian cooking, nothing too fancy, able to make up menus, able to make up shopping lists or shop, only one other staff for assistance when needed, take orders and serve, know about food storage, quantities and presentation. Place is made up of 4 bungalows with seperate kitchen (being fitted out as I write) and dining area, currently no guests. It could be a while before actual guests are there to cook for and then could be intermittent depending on bookings. We, as I said, currently pay a guy to keep an eye on things, he's there everyday but has all the time off needed for ceremonies/family concerns and due to our fault/building has had no duties list or work times/hours, this has just changed and he will be earning his money now....we were happy paying him even when he had to rush off for this duty or ceremony or whatever and we will be just as happy for the cook/chef to have a similar deal when there are no guests to attend to.So how much to pay a cook/chef each day even though they may only work a month or so a year for one or two persons to begin with? They would be the one and only also, so hours will be long, probably boring, but they will be the head of the kitchen.[/QUOTE] You asked for our advice,so i will give you mine,and i am sorry if it is not what you want to hear.First of all,if i understand well,you want someone that is trained as a chef to work as a waiter.If i understand you well,the chef will be responsible for breakfast,lunch and dinner?You are not going to get a good performance of anyone in Bali unless you state very clearly function,workinghours and all other things that should be regulated.Saying that overtime will be compensated when it is quiet, will open the door for misunderstandings.There is a very strong demand for cooks at the moment,so i doubt that any cook that meets the criteria you mention,will agree to work as a waiter at the same time,or doing three meals a day. A minimum of 2,5 to 3 million is what you could expect to pay for a experienced cook.You might have to rethink your needs and who fits that best:instead of employing staff that you give a function,but is idle when there is no demand for his or her skills,fill your staff with people that are more multifunctional.You will probably get better results if you train someone according to your vision,than searching for a needle in a haystack.You are talking about a Chef,but maybe consider a Balinese lady that cooks well and can be taught in western cooking.Your guests will probably appreciate authentic cooking more than the bland restaurant/hotel food most professional cooks are trained in.If later on you have so much demand for a real Cook,search then.The experience of friends of mine with a very nice villa and excellent pay is that staff(and certainly cooks) tend to leave as soon as they are bored or can better themselves.If you want them to work -for instance- on Galungan and Kuningan if there are guests,you must make that clear from the start.Otherwise they will take it for granted they will not be working.Call a few agencies that provide staff ,who advertise in the Bali Advertiser ,and check the current salary rates;it depends also where you are,Seminyak being more expensive than Buleleng.Good luck,and make sure you have people around you that make you happy.

homeinbali

Thankyou Hermit for your honesty, understanding and for replying, if you don't ask the question you never know if there is an answer or not. I did try to put in all the relevant information and I think you got the gist of it, thanks again.As I said our current "guy" on the ground, has been with us for 2 years, he will shortly become our pool maintenance person, garden maintenance, transport advisor/driver, outdoors maintenance, daytime security and village mediator. As soon as construction is finished he will have a definitive job description/duties and hours. We have I believe a good relationship with him, he knows he is lucky to have a paid job in his village where he can still carry out his village duties, he is the son left in his family to do these duties and he has no say in the matter, he was born into this.His wife has been cooking for us each time we have stayed during construction once the first bungalow was completed. She is a good Balinese cook and our original intention was to do exactly what you suggested but after a months long stay I just can't see how I could train someone in skills that I don't have. She knows she has a job with us as room attendant/personal laundry/kitchen helper/food shopper and will have definitve times/hours of work, as will her husband, but also concedes she doesn't have the skills needed for westernized cooking.We are also hiring a night security person from the village once we have completed construction (August).We have tried to do as you say and agree having staff who are multi-functional are the best idea, staves off boredom for one thing and cuts down on our costs but cooking is such a responsible position. I will do as you say and look in the Bali advertiser etc. and ask at agencies. We will also take another look in the area we are in, 20 minutes from Ubud, actually Gianyar and ask our man on the ground for recommendations.Another suggestion we were given was to hire a villa type manager and wife/husband who cooks, we could still keep on our staff from the village, just finding the right couple, of course this would also help when/if we ever take guests in other than freeloading family!

hermit

[b]Staffing from scratch[/b]His wife has been cooking for us each time we have stayed during construction once the first bungalow was completed. She is a good Balinese cook and our original intention was to do exactly what you suggested but after a months long stay I just can't see how I could train someone in skills that I don't have. She knows she has a job with us as room attendant/personal laundry/kitchen helper/food shopper and will have definitve times/hours of work, as will her husband, but also concedes she doesn't have the skills needed for westernized cooking.Another suggestion we were given was to hire a villa type manager and wife/husband who cooks, we could still keep on our staff from the village, just finding the right couple, of course this would also help when/if we ever take guests in other than freeloading family![/QUOTE] That all makes sense!Having people from the village working there solves a lot of problems by themselves.You have not told however what your position in this scheme is.Will you be there permanently to supervise?What kind of guests are you targeting,how luxurious is your resort?If i understand your set-up,the breakfast would be your first concern as most people want to have that in the place where they stay.It should not be too difficult to train someone to do that.If Guests would like to have lunch and dinner at your place depends on the location:is it close to restaurants or in the middle of nowhere?The size of your place,(four bungalows means maximum eight guests?)will make it very difficult to establish a western menu for wich you can have all fresh ingredients in stock.If you can only offer food from the freezer that might not be what guests expect.I also doubt the profit of the kitchen would justify an expensive Chef.If you are near Gianyar city,there is an abundant supply of fresh fish nearby at the coast,so maybe focus on that for a beginning.Grilled ,really fresh, fish is something that is hard to get in most countries. Local ducks make a very good dish as well.Do you mind telling where exactly you are located?

spicyayam

I agree with everything Hermit has said and it's great advice. I think tourists coming to Bali want to try local food, so I wonder if you even need to bother making a western menu. Of course this could also depend on what level of guests you are marketing to. I would suggest keeping things as simple as possible with as much local ingredients as possible. If you can't find someone with the necessary skills, I would suggest finding someone who enjoys cooking and training them. If you can't train them, maybe you could find someone in your own country and give them a free holiday in turn for teaching your staff. Breakfast should be easy enough for anyone to manage. I think many restaurants catering to tourists here suffer the problem of trying to offer as many dishes as they can and in the end nothing really stands out. I would suggest creating a small menu and make sure you do everything well. If you want people to eat in your restaurant, you need to offer food that is better or different than what is available in nearby restaurants.

homeinbali

Thankyou again Hermit & now Spicyayam. Our position is to retire into the bungalows, maybe 5-6 years away from now, we were not going to build so soon but got carried away & before you know it, it's built. Maybe retirement will come sooner too! The bungalows are large, 1 king size bedroom & a lounge that can be used as a king size bedroom as well, bathroom & entry with mini kitchen/desk area, not luxurious, Balinese in design & build & dare I say it, quality but with western fittings. There is a seperate kitchen & dining area, a seperate laundry/staff room & of course a pool. So in reality guest numbers could be actually 4 in each bungalow (16) or even 6 (24) as the rooms are very large & can take a king size bed & a king size single in each room! Current guest list is all family & we do not have the permits (?) to take in guests as yet, that is something our nominee is reluctant to do at this early stage when we only have family in mind. We are so isolated that guests may never eventuate & that isn't something we initially envisaged anyway.We are currently looking at renting land for an internet wifi tower as we have been told that Telekom, Indosat etc. will not be growing into our area any time soon as the need is not there. There is not one computer in the village & the nearest internet cafe is 10 minutes away on scooter & is on phoneline. This is the last spot for internet.We are in a small village 15 minutes on scooter from the center of Gianyar, only local type shops, no restaurants unless we travel to Ubud 25 minutes away on scooter. It is very quiet & peaceful, no other Westerners around & we are still quite a curiosity with the village, who do appear to not mind having us there as we are employing some of the village, we used all builders from within the village, only the pool building was outsourced. We have been included in village ceremonies & I mean that in that we were asked if we would like to contribute to the village new temple ceremonies, we researched & asked what was appropriate & a goat was donated. That's actually another job we employ someone for, each day a lady goes & puts offerings on our temple on our property, she won't take it as employment so we say it is a gift to her for her family to use as she wishes.So we are really looking at catering for family at present. I think after reading your posts I maybe over thinking it a bit by trying to offer the family what they can get in Kuta & the like. The kids that don't/won't eat Balinese will have to get over it until we train our friend up, I like the idea of offering someone a holiday in return for training & yes breakfast would be the first meal to be trained in.As for our exact location I wasn't sure if I could say, I don't want to appear to be advertising, but then most of you already live there or are about to anyway....Banjar Bon Nyuh, Desa Petak, Gianyar.

gilbert de jong

We are currently looking at renting land for an internet wifi tower as we have been told that Telekom, Indosat etc. will not be growing into our area any time soon as the need is not there. [/QUOTE] About the looking/needing/searching for a cook, I agree with Spicy, Hermit has given good advice and spicy too.Just in your last post, this was surprising to me...If I understand right, you are going to rent land and then build an internet wifi tower?Could you be a little more specific, before I might jump to the wrong conclusion..

homeinbali

[b]Wifi tower[/b]Hi Gilbert,Yes you are right, we have no internet connection where we are & no hope of the authorities putting it in as there is no need in the area as yet. We can get a phoneline but it is not capable of internet. The company Blueline have been out & quoted on building a wifi tower, 26 meter tall, once installed we then sign up to one of their internet plans.We can get internet on our i-phones, expensive and intermittent & we can't always open posts, photos.To use the land we have where we have built will use up the available area for a later larger home for us to retire into & would be in the way of the views. We have a few options close by & are currently enquiring about rental of the land for the tower to built on. Rice will not be grown but potatoes in the one piece that is a current rice field. The other piece is unused land, the owner living away in Singaraga actually, the area has trees/jungles to one side so will deflect the look of the tower without causing damage to it if a tree was to fall. Rental of the land is the only option as budget doesn't allow us to buy another plot of land yet. Rental agreement would have to be for many years due to the cost of the tower & drawn up by a lawyer.Do you think we have been told lies about the coming of internet to this area? Do you have any insider knowledge? I do worry that once we have paid out this money, built this unsightly tower that those that decide will then get internet into the area. It is the same sort of internet tower that was built at Ubud Hanging Gardens Resort so that they could get internet.

gilbert de jong

yeah, I was affraid I did understand right...If you can use your mobile-phone for accesing the internet, there's no need to go and rent land and build a tower of 26meters tall. There should be a much cheaper way, in fact I am positive that there is.I am no computer/inernet connection wizard, but the whole land and tower deal it sounds a bit fishy.You could get a much smaller 'installation' for home-use, maybe something like this (see attachment)works great for me at my place, btw at my place I can't even get a normal phonelineIf it's coverage you're worried about you can buy 2,3,4,like these and have them linked to each other. I just have one and works in a 40/50 meter distance.You can go a step beyond this simple thing, like a home antenna (2 meters tall) wich would increase receiving the signal from the provider (telkomsel/indosat/etc..)

spicyayam

Current guest list is all family & we do not have the permits (?) to take in guests as yet, that is something our nominee is reluctant to do at this early stage when we only have family in mind. We are so isolated that guests may never eventuate & that isn't something we initially envisaged anyway.[/QUOTE] Do you want to run your place as a business? If so, I would be trying to organize the permits as soon as possible. Why would you wait? Even a small place there will be plenty of costs to keep the place properly maintained and having paying guests I believe would keep your staff motivated, not to mention the ability to earn extra money from tips and providing additional services. Don't worry that you are isolated. If you are in a quiet and beautiful location, you can use that to your advantage. Many people coming to Bali are looking for these kinds of places. You just need to spend some time building a website and then getting some good online reviews on sites like Tripadvisor. Since you are isolated, the restaurant will be important. As long as you keep your prices fair, people won't mind eating all of their meals there, or you could even make some kind of all-inclusive package. I think it would be best to employ all of your staff locally and train them. You could employ a chef for a month or 2 to come and make the menu and train your staff. Employing a local family and providing with accommodation is another possible idea. You don't want to rush into something though and get thr wrong people. I don't know about the internet, but I would ask as many companies as possible and see what they can come up with.

ronb

Yes you are right, we have no internet connection where we are & no hope of the authorities putting it in as there is no need in the area as yet. We can get a phoneline but it is not capable of internet. The company Blueline have been out & quoted on building a wifi tower, 26 meter tall, once installed we then sign up to one of their internet plans.We can get internet on our i-phones, expensive and intermittent & we can't always open posts, photos..................[/QUOTE] It sounds like you are quite remote - I am not sure where you are. The options you mention1. Telkom - their service (product name is Speedy) is ADSL over the fixed phone lines. For it to be available you need to be reasonably close to the telephone exchange (say 8 Km or less), a good quality fixed phone line, and fairly modern equipment in the local exchange that will support ADSL. Maybe your exchange has old equipment and Telkom have no plans to upgrade at present.2. One of the mobile phone networks. Your iPhones work so you have mobile networks available, but the poor Internet service you mention suggests that your local phone towers are only providing 2G services - not 3G which improves Internet access be a huge degree. Once again, the mobile phone provider may have no upgrade plans - most their upgrade plans are directed to the larger towns where the number of mobile phone users is growing. The photo Gilbert provided is I think a gadget that gets it's internet access from a mobile network, and then provides wireless access for a few devices within your house. Recently in another thread Lou mentioned such a device - search for E585. But unless you can ascertain that one of the mobile phone networks has 3G in your area - this thing won't help. There are several networks so you need to check them all.3. Blueline or another Internet provider like Spicelink in Lovina. They have Internet access at the central points through one of the phone companies - could be just Telkom Speedy, or if they are big - something else. They then connect customers by line-of-sight radio links. They will have a tall tower centrally and then work out what is needed at your location to connect to their central tower. A 26 metre tower is tall, and presumably expensive, suggesting you are far from, or perhaps partly hidden from, the nearest Blueline tower. If you can find another provider with a tower closer to you, you may get away with a much smaller tower.One other option is connection via satellite. One provider in the Lovina area was using this - it is fairly expensive to setup so not attractive for an individual user. There is some info at [url=http://www.expat.or.id/info/internetaccess.html]Internet Access Options in Indonesia[/url] and they say it is fast meaning you can get high download speeds, but don't say that there is a delay - about 1/3 sec which is the time it takes to get a signal from the ground to the satellite and then back to the ground. For interactive activities like Skype or Internet banking this delay can be annoying. This expat.or.id link also has a link to Inmarsat - one of the companies providing this kind of service.Hope this helps in your search.

Peter Ka

Presumably Homeinbali's place is below the surrounding area. Result is poor coverage for any wireless service. To get internet service from any ISP, be it GlobalXtreme, Blueline, Channel11, etc, the antenna needs to be on a mast. Very common. I am afraid Homeinbali has no choice. 3G internet from Smart, XL, Telkomsel will never work at the place unless they build a tower within 500m.

homeinbali

[b]Cook/Internet[/b]You guys are all great, thankyou for your advice. Our problems aren't resolved yet but I have taken your advice on board and something will work out.The internet is a problem, we are approximately 10 kilometres away from the nearest tower, a huge red and white ugly thing, no other towers around, we believe it is Telkom. We will look into the cost of satellite, the quote we have for the tower is just under 11 million rupiahs, but then we will have land rental costs and provider plan costs on top of that, and if the tower is blueline you have to have blueline's plans. Thanks Ron for your input. Peter you are right we are quite remote....at first we thought Blueline were going to use our tower for others but apparently it doesn't work like that.....shame we could have rented it back to them!I like the idea of keeping the staff within the village and will seriously look at training our current cook and maybe one other from the village so that they can share the job, timeoff etc.. She is quite young with one child and I expect more children will be planned for the future. The idea of bringing someone in to do the training is a better option than me trying to teach something I know little about, my 20 yr.old suggested asking Gordon Ramsay what he was up to in his holidays! I think Jamie Oliver's basic cooking would be a better option and easier on the ears!As for the permits we will also look into these, exactly what is it that we would need and what costs?, the lawyer did mention it all when we were purchasing the land but we weren't really thinking of it as a business back then. I think our nominee worries too much about our budget and is trying to keep the costs down for us as he knew we would have a lot of things to build, purchase and worry about. "Squeeze the budget" is one of his favourite sayings!

matsaleh

hermit

Personally, I don't necessarily agree it's a good idea to employ people from your own village/banjar/desa.If, for instance, you have a problem with one of the staff and you decide they're not suitable for the job and have to let them go, then you [I]may[/I] have a problem with the entire village. Just my opinion though.[/QUOTE] Yes,you are right,it is like tight-rope -walking.But if you build a new house in a small village like that you surely will have a problem with the whole village if you do NOT hire anyone from there.

zoyra

You guys are all great, thankyou for your advice. Our problems aren't resolved yet but I have taken your advice on board and something will work out.I like the idea of keeping the staff within the village and will seriously look at training our current cook and maybe one other from the village so that they can share the job, timeoff etc.. She is quite young with one child and I expect more children will be planned for the future. The idea of bringing someone in to do the training is a better option than me trying to teach something I know little about, my 20 yr.old suggested asking Gordon Ramsay what he was up to in his holidays! I think Jamie Oliver's basic cooking would be a better option and easier on the ears![/QUOTE] Hi, maybe I can help you with training/teaching your current cook. Am a fan of Jamie and I think the recipes from ministry of food is a good start. PM me if you are interested, and we can take it from there. Btw, I live in Ubud area and looking to do something useful:)

homeinbali

Hi, maybe I can help you with training/teaching your current cook. Am a fan of Jamie and I think the recipes from ministry of food is a good start. PM me if you are interested, and we can take it from there. Btw, I live in Ubud area and looking to do something useful:)[/QUOTE] Hoping you received my personal message to you.

zoyra

Hoping you received my personal message to you.[/QUOTE] got it and am in the midst of replying. Thanks