cabaicabai
There was an interesting article published in the Bali Times downplaying the importance of WiliLeaks here [url=http://www.thebalitimes.com/2010/12/13/wikileaks-are-wearisome-they-are-not-a-casus-belli/]WikiLeaks are Wearisome; They Are Not a Casus Belli[/url].Hector thinks WikiLeaks is "all a bit of a joke" that has no value beyond titillation. Just a few weeks later WikiLeaks reveals that Yudhoyono used Obama's visit as leverage to get the ban against Kopassus by the U.S. lifted.Kopassus have a long string of human right violations including on going murders and torture in West Papua. Yudhoyono has succeeded in having these violations sancioned by the U.S. to satisfy Obama's geopolitical interests.How long before the Indonesian people are sufficiently educated to realise that TNI and Kopassus are a bunch of dogs and are ripping them off blind and must be dismanteled to eradicate their endemic corruption?
ronb
Yudhoyono has succeeded in having these violations sancioned by the U.S. to satisfy Obama's geopolitical interests.[/QUOTE]This is a wild claim that I am sure you cannot substantiate. The Jakarta Globe said last JulyThe Obama administration said Thursday it would resume assistance to Indonesia's special forces, which had been barred from receiving U.S. military aid for more than a decade because of human-rights abuses.[/quote]It seems that any agreement between RI and US on this issue assumes that the human rights problems are now solved.The full text of the Jakarta Globe article is at[url=http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/23/world/la-fg-0723-indonesia-obama-20100723]U.S. to resume aid to Kopassus, Indonesia's controversial military forces - Los Angeles Times[/url]
cabaicabai
It's not a wild claim at all, it's been substantiated by the contents of secret diplomatic cables published by WikiLeaks.You believe Kopassus has been cleaned up? You must be joking. Yudhoyono committed to any soldiers convicted of human rights abuses being expelled from the military. The three soldiers who comitted torture in West Papua were not convicted of human rights abuses and were not expelled.The torture included "kicking one of the men, Tunaliwor Kiwo, in the face and chest, burning his face with a cigarette, and applying burning wood to his penis. The soldiers placed a knife to the neck of the other man, Telangga Gire, while threatening to kill him. Kiwo later described in a videotaped interview how the torture went on for three days. The soldiers beat him with their hands and sticks, crushed his toes with pliers, suffocated him with plastic bags, burnt his genitals and other body parts, cut his face and head and smeared the wounds with chilies."[url=http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/02/09/opinion-indonesian-military-gets-away-torture]Opinion: Indonesian military gets away with torture | Human Rights Watch[/url]
cabaicabai
"The cables, released by WikiLeaks exclusively to The Age, detail US concerns about Indonesia's failure to prosecute the military personnel responsible for murder and torture during the conflicts in East Timor and Aceh.But they also reveal that US diplomats in Jakarta believed that Mr Yudhoyono's demands should be met to ensure that Indonesia's military and security services would protect American interests in the region, including co-operation in the war on terror." "protect American interests in the region" = geopolitical interests[url=http://www.theage.com.au/world/obama-caved-in-on-kopassus-20101216-18zlh.html]Obama caved in on Kopassus[/url]
gilbert de jong
followed both links....alot of blablabla and really who cares :icon_rolleyes: or better said does it really have an impact on the every day indonesian we all meet in/on the streets??they don't know, don't have any reason to know...much more important to them is the ricing price of cabai then worldpolitics :icon_lol:
cabaicabai
So you speak for ordinary Indonesians do you? Those tni and kopassus businesses sucking the ordinary Indonesians dry doesn't help keep prices down that's for sure. What is an ordinary Indonesian in your mind? Of course it has an impact. I suppose you think West Papuans are all living in paradise while they're being raped and tortured? Maybe you just mix with people who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves. Birds of a feather and all that... "they don't know, don't have any reason to know" What all of them? Gee you've been busy talking to every person in Indonesia. Take a rest... lololol
gilbert de jong
cabai...reading is a hard thing to do, but please do try to keep up.:icon_lol:I am not saying and didn't say I was/am speaking for all ordinary indonesians... see the questionmark at the end of the sentence?? (again) But again who cares?? Obviously you do, but what are you gonna do about it? Realistically, you can't do anything about it. I have a simple 'rule' for myself, "if it's beyond my control to make a difference, I am not going to worry about it".. There are enough people who are willing to fight to make a difference, I am not like that...did enough fighting for a cause beyond my grasp of understanding why I should fight, but I did...that's what soldiers do, because maybe, just maybe there's something bigger going on beyond the knowledge of the ones in the field and it's not upto a soldier to question orders.As for the not giving a damn about anything just myself, yeah right :icon_rolleyes:....making a difference is what I do in my immediate surroundings, not for the 'thank you's' but it seems more logically to me...it makes a hell of alot more sense, then 'fighting' for a cause,without any chance of winning/.changing..goodluck on your crusade, you'll need it.Maybe those west-papuans who acording to you are living in a hell, can take advantage of that government migration plan to kalimantan???
cabaicabai
"they don't know, don't have any reason to know"yep Balinese are too simple minded to think about anything other than their immediate surroundings. And if they do they are on a crusade. Hang on, they're not the only ones. :icon_lol:"Maybe those west-papuans who acording to you are living in a hell, can take advantage of that government migration plan to kalimantan??? "According to me? You don't know it's too far away but you have the internet. What for though beats me.
gilbert de jong
as a balinese would say.....ngak nyambung:icon_lol:
