Markit
Even with my somewhat jaundiced view of things I read the most recent article from Bali Discovery News with I have to admit - shock!If you believe the figures listed there Sanglah Hospital averages 150 road accident victims per day of which the figures say 22% die! This makes a running total of: 33 a day!231 a week!924 a month!and to top it all off 11,088 a year!!!Seems to me that before this forum's participants take up arms about dogs or plastic it might be a good idea to teach these people some road sense? Any ideas how to do that with a group of people that so strongly believe in karma that they don't even bother looking at oncoming traffic when entering a road?I have made it a point to make every Balinese that gets in my car wear the seat belt - they generally have no idea how it works! Would quite happily sit there, sans belt, with small child balanced on knee. When I point out that any of 1000 other idiots on the road could cause me to brake/stop quite suddenly with the result that small child is now raspberry jelly, they smile apologetically in that wonderful Balinese way as if to say - "Bule, they will never understand". At which point I slam on the brakes and produce raspberry jelly - no, not really but I would love to!
soontobeexpat
this is such a syupid question but are deaths in the vllages of indonesia recorded the same way in a western country?
mat
I think about this almost every day. It's one of the few things that truly depresses me.Sometimes I think of producing a booklet [like the UK highway code, but] with pictures one with the big red gross under it [wrong] and one with the green tick [right]. There is a list of about 10 basic things that could be illustrated like this. Including, Don't drive on the wrong side of the road into onco0meing traffic, keep to the left when entering side roads from a major one [don't use the same side of the road as emerging traffic], don't drive without lights at night, don't pull out of side roads without looking, don't go at traffic light when they are red. use your indicators, etc..... The questions are, how could a large print run be financed and if it was, would the Indonesians read it? Even a TV advertising campaign could help. What about the schools, surely they have a part to play? How about introducing a basic test or even getting the police to get involved in stopping obvious dangerous drivers?Like the saying goes you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.Sad so many lives could be saved with simple instruction on road safety.And sadly I fear that there are a lot more deaths than are recorded at the hospital.
soontobeexpat
I think about this almost every day. It's one of the few things that truly depresses me.Sometimes I think of producing a booklet [like the UK highway code, but] with pictures one with the big red gross under it [wrong] and one with the green tick [right]. There is a list of about 10 basic things that could be illustrated like this. Including, Don't drive on the wrong side of the road into onco0meing traffic, keep to the left when entering side roads from a major one [don't use the same side of the road as emerging traffic], don't drive without lights at night, don't pull out of side roads without looking, don't go at traffic light when they are red. use your indicators, etc..... The questions are, how could a large print run be financed and if it was, would the Indonesians read it? Even a TV advertising campaign could help. What about the schools, surely they have a part to play? How about introducing a basic test or even getting the police to get involved in stopping obvious dangerous drivers?Like the saying goes you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink.Sad so many lives could be saved with simple instruction on road safety.And sadly I fear that there are a lot more deaths than are recorded at the hospital.[/QUOTE] Theres this clip for the song Aku Sayang Ibu (kids song) where the little kids are standing on the back of the motorbike and I think 1 child is driving a motorbike, anyway the passengers (7 - 11 yo) and dancing, standing up and not wearing helmets. If anyone wants anything to change I think updating kids programs to reinforce road and POOL safety would be a huge one. We were looking after my boyfriends nephew for the day in Bali, he wanted to go swimming but couldnt swim. No floaties so we got him a tube ring thing, no sunscreen "because his skin is dark it doesnt burn like your bule skin", the uncles were meant to be watching him but off theyd go to get a beer and come back play on there phones. Give him some beer... Sukur is running around the pool edge on slippery tiles, they find it hilarious even as he slipped, banged his head and fell in the water. He wasnt injured but Im not sure thats the point.. So mat, I encourage your ideas but please also include water safety toooo!!! haha
JohnnyCool
[I]Markit:[/I][I]...it might be a good idea to teach these people some road sense?... Any ideas how to do that with a group of people that so strongly believe in karma that they don't even bother looking at oncoming traffic when entering a road?[/I][/QUOTE]Who would do the teaching? It's their island/country and we are "guests". And don't forget those figures from Sanglah hospital are for [B]one[/B] hospital.Karma-talk aside, one of the main reasons people drive/ride like maniacs here is that they usually get away with it. The police generally do nothing. Seriously hefty (and rigidly enforced) fines [I]might[/I] make a difference. Not just fines - confiscate vehicles on the spot. [I](Birth of a new industry.)[/I] Especially when extremely young children are involved.Maybe the police should shoot anybody that goes through a red light, or drives on the "wrong" side of the road. Those who exceed the "speed limit" should be chased, arraigned and taught a big lesson. Not simply ignored. "Lessons" become meaningful where it hits the pockets hardest. Repeat offenders could be chained and exhibited in shopping malls. Extra income could be generated by selling rotten tomatoes, mangoes, durians, whatever to throw at them.I believe what is not grasped by many is that driving around like a bat out of hell is dangerous. (Danger is a relative term, of course.) Some form of public humiliation as a consequence, coupled with significant out-of-the-pocket expenses would send a more concrete message than trying to teach children (or their parents) silly folk songs.[I]soontobeexpat:[/I][I]this is such a s[U][B]t[/B][/U]upid question but are deaths in the vllages of indonesia recorded the same way in a western country? [/I][/QUOTE]No, they're not. Not by a long mile...:icon_evil:
Markit
One idea that I personally found effective in Thailand several years ago when the road deaths thru tuk-tuks (3 wheeled taxis) was skyrocketing was the displaying of graphic, closeup photos of tuk-tuk accidents and particularly the results on the passengers - bloody and horrific. Various store fronts on very busy intersections where chosen as display areas so that the most people were exposed to them - kind of like the pictures of cancer victims on cigarette packages.I say "personally effective" because I have no idea if the campaign was effective in terms of slowing the over all death rate by tuk- tuk or was just ignored. For Bali I imagine something on the order of large placards displayed at intersections showing mangled bikes and riders and a cautionary tale written underneath. On the lines of "This family was going the wrong way and didn't see the truck, and won't ever see one again...".
springer2003
Some of those death figures are skewed (my opinion), certainly is alot of low speed impacts involving motorcycles. The overall country figure with a population of over 340 million is deaths of 82 per day (30k per year), figures are increased with passengers on trucks and buses. The state of road infrastructure is one of the main cause and off course purchasing of licenses without testing.:icon_mrgreen:[url=http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/11/06/traffic-accidents-claim-82-lives-day.html]Traffic accidents claim 82 lives per day | The Jakarta Post[/url]
mat
Even my wife [who is Balinese] is amazed at the amount of drivers with no lights at night. So it's not just a culture thing. Locals think it crazy too!
tintin
[b]Driving in bali[/b]I guess it's time again for some advice.:icon_lol:This article appeared on November 4, 1988, in the San Francisco Chronicle, and was written by JON CARROLL . HOW TO DRIVE IN BALI. Here is an actual true fact you may wish to wrap in a handkerchief and put in your sock drawer until needed: if you drive like an American in Bali, you will die like pig fossil. Truly. To operate a motor vehicle in Indonesia, you must understand the transportation gestalt in an entirely different way. Definitions that you thought were above redefinition will immediately be redefined. Please pay attention. -THE ROAD. Includes not only the paved portion of the highway, but also what we might call "the verge," "the curb," "the sidewalk," "the front yard,' "the roadside restaurant," and "the monastery" The paved portion of the roadway is generally one lane wide. Not one lane in each direction: one lane. -RESPECT. All animals are granted the greatest respect in Bali. It is presumed that being highly evolved creatures, chickens and dogs and the like know how to sidestep a Mitsubishi going 78 mph on a for-shrouded road during a national religious holiday. -This same position of honor is granted to small children, cripples, men with 30 pounds of hay on their heads, unattended oxcarts and elderly women in mystic trances. Slowing or swerving to avoid these beings would cause them dishonor. -DISHONOR. Getting from morning to evening while remaining in the same incarnation. -LANES. These colorful white and yellow markings wish a hearty "Selamat datang" (Welcome) to every traveler. They have no other function. -PASSING. The national sport of Bali. Observant motorists may encounter the vertical triple (passing three vehicles in one acceleratory movement,) the horizontal triple ( passing a vehicle that itself is in the process of passing a vehicle,) or even the rare double-double (passing a vehicle at precisely the same time that another vehicle, coming in the other direction, is also engaged in the act of passing.) -TAILGATING. What to do when not passing. -BEING PASSED. An insult not to be endured. The greater the differential between your vehicle (say, a broken tricycle) and the passing vehicle (say, a Boeing 747,) the greater the potential loss of prestige. The owner of the less powerful vehicle must always do everything in his/her power to thwart the attempt to overtake. -SEATBELTS. Absolutely unnecessary. Not only are they not worn, they are not even provided. Passengers are fully protected by the horn (see below) -LIGHTS. Rapidly blinking the headlights can mean many things, including "OK to pass now," " dangerous to pass now," or "may you find the thread of gold in the linen of existence." It takes years, sometimes entire lifetimes, to learn this subtle and intriguing intuitive nonverbal communication skill. Generally, however, you have about three seconds. -THE HORN. When sounded loudly and frequently, the horn sets up an invisible energy barrier protecting the vehicle and its inhabitants from all harm. The faster the vehicle is going, the better the horn works. This is the central concept of Indonesian motoring. -ACCIDENTS. Rare. Usually the result of a malfunctioning horn.
tintin
Even my wife [who is Balinese] is amazed at the amount of drivers with no lights at night. So it's not just a culture thing. Locals think it crazy too![/QUOTE]I've been told by many Balinese that the reason is so that they wont use up their batteries:icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes:
soontobeexpat
I guess it's time again for some advice.:icon_lol:This article appeared on November 4, 1988, in the San Francisco Chronicle, and was written by JON CARROLL . HOW TO DRIVE IN BALI. Here is an actual true fact you may wish to wrap in a handkerchief and put in your sock drawer until needed: if you drive like an American in Bali, you will die like pig fossil. Truly. To operate a motor vehicle in Indonesia, you must understand the transportation gestalt in an entirely different way. Definitions that you thought were above redefinition will immediately be redefined. Please pay attention. -THE ROAD. Includes not only the paved portion of the highway, but also what we might call "the verge," "the curb," "the sidewalk," "the front yard,' "the roadside restaurant," and "the monastery" The paved portion of the roadway is generally one lane wide. Not one lane in each direction: one lane. -RESPECT. All animals are granted the greatest respect in Bali. It is presumed that being highly evolved creatures, chickens and dogs and the like know how to sidestep a Mitsubishi going 78 mph on a for-shrouded road during a national religious holiday. -This same position of honor is granted to small children, cripples, men with 30 pounds of hay on their heads, unattended oxcarts and elderly women in mystic trances. Slowing or swerving to avoid these beings would cause them dishonor. -DISHONOR. Getting from morning to evening while remaining in the same incarnation. -LANES. These colorful white and yellow markings wish a hearty "Selamat datang" (Welcome) to every traveler. They have no other function. -PASSING. The national sport of Bali. Observant motorists may encounter the vertical triple (passing three vehicles in one acceleratory movement,) the horizontal triple ( passing a vehicle that itself is in the process of passing a vehicle,) or even the rare double-double (passing a vehicle at precisely the same time that another vehicle, coming in the other direction, is also engaged in the act of passing.) -TAILGATING. What to do when not passing. -BEING PASSED. An insult not to be endured. The greater the differential between your vehicle (say, a broken tricycle) and the passing vehicle (say, a Boeing 747,) the greater the potential loss of prestige. The owner of the less powerful vehicle must always do everything in his/her power to thwart the attempt to overtake. -SEATBELTS. Absolutely unnecessary. Not only are they not worn, they are not even provided. Passengers are fully protected by the horn (see below) -LIGHTS. Rapidly blinking the headlights can mean many things, including "OK to pass now," " dangerous to pass now," or "may you find the thread of gold in the linen of existence." It takes years, sometimes entire lifetimes, to learn this subtle and intriguing intuitive nonverbal communication skill. Generally, however, you have about three seconds. -THE HORN. When sounded loudly and frequently, the horn sets up an invisible energy barrier protecting the vehicle and its inhabitants from all harm. The faster the vehicle is going, the better the horn works. This is the central concept of Indonesian motoring. -ACCIDENTS. Rare. Usually the result of a malfunctioning horn.[/QUOTE] You raised a point of the flashing headlights. I have driven many times and yet to have an accident (TOUCH WOOD) have a general unerstanding of the road.. chaos Im not going to say rules... However Ive never understood the high beaming.. In Aus this means police are up the road. What does it mean in Bali when you are driving a normal speed, have your headlights on at night and watching the roaD and they flash there lights??Ohhh also! Ive left it too late to get an int. driving license in Perth it slipped my mind and it wont happen now. A Bar in Kuta does however make an English Int Driving Licenses for 150000 IDR and of course they are fraudulent. Would it be worth getting one to stop the bribes I have to pay if caught driving w/o a license? Does anyone know if they do any legit checks/the penalty for having this document? or more to the point would YOU do it?
mat
You raised a point of the flashing headlights. I have driven many times and yet to have an accident (TOUCH WOOD) have a general unerstanding of the road.. chaos Im not going to say rules... However Ive never understood the high beaming.. In Aus this means police are up the road. What does it mean in Bali when you are driving a normal speed, have your headlights on at night and watching the roaD and they flash there lights??Ohhh also! Ive left it too late to get an int. driving license in Perth it slipped my mind and it wont happen now. A Bar in Kuta however does make an English Int Driving Licenses for 150000 IDR and of course they are fraudulent. Would it be worth getting one to stop the bribes I have to pay if caught driving w/o a license? Does anyone know if they do any legit checks/the penalty for having this document? or more to the point would YOU do it?[/QUOTE]The flashing of headlights means that they are coming through whatever [ get out of the way]I've heard of and seen the 'international drivers license' you mention. They are good and look just like mine [which is original] I don't see how you can tell the difference.
JohnnyCool
[I]Ohhh also! Ive left it too late to get an int. driving license in Perth it slipped my mind and it wont happen now. A Bar in Kuta does however make an English Int Driving Licenses for 150000 IDR and of course they are fraudulent. Would it be worth getting one to stop the bribes I have to pay if caught driving w/o a license? Does anyone know if they do any legit checks/the penalty for having this document? or more to the point would YOU do it? [/I][/QUOTE]A fake International Driving Permit for Rp 150,000? Why would you bother? And don't forget that if you do get involved in an "accident", you'll be found out. Imagine trying to talk (or buy) your way out of a serious one. And forget all about any travel insurance claim (if you have insurance).The Royal Automobile Club of WA has a website. So long as you have a current driver's licence (anywhere in Australia), you can apply for an IDP - print out the application form and fax/mail it to Perth. The last time I did this it cost about AUD 30 (cheaper than other auto clubs like NSW, Victoria). The IDP arrived in less than two weeks.DON'T do it (ie, rely on a fake IDP). Just [B]not[/B] worth the aggravation/consequences. For about AUD 12 more than the rip-offs at the "bar in Kuta" want to charge you, you can have a totally legal one. I know which way I'd jump...
soontobeexpat
A fake International Driving Permit for Rp 150,000? Why would you bother? And don't forget that if you do get involved in an "accident", you'll be found out. Imagine trying to talk (or buy) your way out of a serious one. And forget all about any travel insurance claim (if you have insurance).The Royal Automobile Club of WA has a website. So long as you have a current driver's licence (anywhere in Australia), you can apply for an IDP - print out the application form and fax/mail it to Perth. The last time I did this it cost about AUD 30 (cheaper than other auto clubs like NSW, Victoria). The IDP arrived in less than two weeks.DON'T do it (ie, rely on a fake IDP). Just [B]not[/B] worth the aggravation/consequences. For about AUD 12 more than the rip-offs at the "bar in Kuta" want to charge you, you can have a totally legal one. I know which way I'd jump...[/QUOTE] Thanks Johnny, that was the answer I was looking for. I asked friends but they did the default answer of "no problem.. The police can never know"As I say time has run out for me to get one by the time I leave however I will go get one I think and get someone to post it over/
Vin
Thanks Johnny, that was the answer I was looking for. I asked friends but they did the default answer of "no problem.. The police can never know"As I say time has run out for me to get one by the time I leave however I will go get one I think and get someone to post it over/[/QUOTE] Its time to change your... so called FRIENDS.
Markit
Well worth a tired smile, thank you Daniel. Problem is, that it is actually not a joke.
JohnnyCool
[I]I asked friends but they did the default answer of "no problem.. The police can never know"[/I][/QUOTE]A few things. 1) Like [B]Vin[/B] implicated above: Be very careful who you think your friends are and what you believe they tell you to be true.2) Get those friends to re-charge the batteries in their brains (assuming they have "brains").3) Read replies to your posts more carefully.[I]As I say time has run out for me to get one by the time I leave however I will go get one I think and get someone to post it over[/I][/QUOTE]If you go and get one personally (an IDP) in Perth, it should take less than 15 minutes. No need to get anyone to send it to you by post. Even if you don't, [B]you can get one when you're in Bali [/B](through RACWA's website).:icon_cry:
soontobeexpat
A few things. 1) Like [B]Vin[/B] implicated above: Be very careful who you think your friends are and what you believe they tell you to be true.2) Get those friends to re-charge the batteries in their brains (assuming they have "brains").3) Read replies to your posts more carefully.If you go and get one personally (an IDP) in Perth, it should take less than 15 minutes. No need to get anyone to send it to you by post. Even if you don't, [B]you can get one when you're in Bali [/B](through RACWA's website).:icon_cry:[/QUOTE] Thank you for your advice on my friends.. I tend to take advice from them with a grain of salt however being local sometimes I put a little too much faith in them [I]knowing what they are talking about[/I].Ill definitely look int the RAC thing, I spoke to RAC and they said a 21 day posting time frame Ill call back and double check this
SamD
The flashing of headlights means that they are coming through whatever [ get out of the way]I've heard of and seen the 'international drivers license' you mention. They are good and look just like mine [which is original] I don't see how you can tell the difference.[/QUOTE] That's right. Very confusing for an Aussie if you are not used to it. In Aus, when you flash your lights at someone it usually means you are being polite and giving way. In Bali, exactly the opposite. Like many things in Bali, I suppose.
ronb
This makes a running total of: 33 a day!231 a week!924 a month!and to top it all off 11,088 a year!!![/QUOTE]You are right - the figures seems bogus. Elsewhere, including an older Bali Discovery report[url=http://www.balidiscovery.com/messages/message.asp?Id=4574]Bali News: The Deadly Toll on Bali's Roads[/url]suggest the annual number of traffic accident deaths in Bali is around 1,000. You can find other sites comparing death rates in different countries - and they tend to agree that this figure somewhere around 1,000 is where it's at.So one possibility is that the report from Sangleh hospital got the 22% figure wrong, and maybe it is only 2.2% of traffic accident patients that die. Then it would all make more sense.When you consider how people with cuts, abrasions and broken bones will turn up at the hospitals, but are nowhere near death - then the 22% figure would seem too high.
