The Marginalization of Bali's Farmers

Markit

Whooooaaaa there Bessi!! Come on back to Earth there. None of this is going to happen except in some alternate Universe. Remember Timor? They didn't even have any money or decent industry so Java aint going to let Bali go any easier, now will it?

cabaicabai

Markit wroteWhooooaaaa there Bessi!! Come on back to Earth there. None of this is going to happen except in some alternate Universe. Remember Timor? They didn't even have any money or decent industry so Java aint going to let Bali go any easier, now will it?

I agree it's never going to happen. On East Timor you're dead wrong, it has tens of billions of dollars of natural resources. The sunrise gas field alone is estimated at $50B. That's why the the largest business in Indonesia (the tni) wreaked revenge on them. They won't let Bali go because it is also extremely valuable but more importantly in the middle of the archipelago.

cabaicabai

hahaha yes you know because the Balinese you have spoken to represent all Balinese. Not stung by the tni reference at all I guess. Oh and building western villas all over the countryside further marginalises farmers which is the original point of this thread, not a big leap. And finally your generally low opinion of the Javanese says more about you than them I'd say. Friendly greetings cabaicabai

cabaicabai

" wrote javanese of islam faith and I'm just stating facts here buddy no personal opinion" you wouldn't know a fact if you tripped over one (imho) Only a bigot would characterise all Javanese Muslims in the way you have. Disgusting.

gilbert de jong

oops I just tripped, fact...reading and understanding are two seperate things...wich you both do not seem to master :icon_lol:

cabaicabai

Far far better than you "buddy". You seem to think that corruption and abuses by tni/kopassus only happen outside Bali. There are Balinese who know better than you. Get a clue.

gilbert de jong

well your posts and comments would suggest otherwise...you go left, i answer left..for communication to be succesfull it would help if you then also again would go left...but you choose to change the essence of the thread, going all over the place except answering a simple question... then trying to make it personal...no problem here, the forum needs some humor and you're doing a good job providing a hell of a lotta laughs :icon_lol: keep it coming...maybe this is an expression you might recognize ROTFL

matsaleh

Pak Panundiana Khun of APINDO has approached Balidiscovery.com "to correct any misunderstanding resulting from the original Beritabali.com article" and the remarks attributed to him. From Bali News: Cultivating Good Relations

[SIZE=4]"Cultivating Good Relations[/SIZE] APINDO Chairman Panundiana Khun Clarifies Comments to Press on Bali's Agricultural Sector. (2/26/2011) A recent article on Balidiscovery.com [The Marginalization of Bali's Farmers] encapsulated a report carried in the Indonesian language press at Beritabali.com [Industri Pertanian Tak Cocok di Bali] That original report contained statements attributed to Mr. Panundiana Khun, the Chairman of Indonesian Entrepreneurs Association (APINDO), stating that due to the diversion of land use away from agricultural pursuits, Bali no longer represented a suitable location for agricultural activities. The original article continued, saying that Mr. Kuhn felt the government should migrate Balinese farmers to Kalimantan where arable land was both abundant and cheap. Balidiscovery.com stands by the essence of its rendering of the original Indonesian article into English. Panundiana Khun Responds Panundiana Khun has written to Balidiscovery.com wishing to correct any misunderstanding resulting from the original Beritabali.com article published under the title "The Agricultural Industry is No Longer Appropriate for Bali" and the subsequent report on this website. Kuhn has written his clarification in the form a response to the question: Why are there no investors in Bali in the fields of agro-industry, farming, plantations and livestock? A free translation of Kuhn's response to his self-posed question follows: "We reply that it is because the price of land is too expensive. Almost all investors who come to Bali are interested in investing in the tourism sector, such as hotels, restaurants, travel agents. spas, villas, condotels, tourism inns, restaurants (sic) shops, malls, gift shops, entertainment, karaoke and alike which share the character of being capital intensive. Large agro-industry investors will invest in Kalimantan, Papua, and Sumatra . Maybe in such areas investors can establish sugar cane or palm oil plantations, wet field rice planting and alike. These are the areas appropriate for large (agricultural) investors." "It is totally incorrect to say that I said the Balinese must transmigrate to Kalimantan. Balinese farmers who still want to farm should plant, raise livestock and cultivate." "Transmigration is actually a volunteer programs and is not compulsory. For people working from the land with no land but who still wish to plant, raise livestock and cultivate, there (transmigration areas) they will obtain land that is larger and more expansive. There (also) they will progress and achieve better personal welfare. This program (transmigration) is a government program to improve the welfare of poor people." "In the published news it was as if the Balinese should transmigrate to Kalimantan. This is not correct. In that news was also stated 'Bali is not appropriate for agriculture.' This also is not correct. The (published) news "Agriculture is to act as the complement of tourism" is also not correct. In fact, tourism and agriculture share a complementary synergy and a complementary mutual need for each other." Balidiscovery.com thanks Mr. Panudiana Kuhn for taking the time to clarify this comments."

cabaicabai

No you claim the other person can't communicate when you have no answer. It's a common ploy in debating when you're losing. Transparent and amusing. And oh you made it personal when you made the ridiculous claim that the people YOU speak to don't care so who cares? if you don't think it's worth discussing, go and talk about visas, your dog's vet or your house on another thread. Don't attempt to speak for all Balinese.

gilbert de jong

losing?didnt know it was aven a contest? but ok, what is it that you want me to answer? just read back the post you've made...and don't go editing your post now hey :icon_lol:

gilbert de jong

cabaicabai wroteI see so you think is a social issue that has relevance but ordinary Indonesians (according to you) don't care about rampant corruption and human rights violations by the tni and kopassus. Blinkers. :icon_rolleyes: Oh and building villas for westerners all over the countryside isn't helping.

I don't think...I know! Just ask any balinese you meet on the street yourself (as I did), you will get an answer somewhat like " oia, aku ngak tahu, apalagi jauh sekali ya, udah susah cari makan aja, masa aku mau ikut urusan yang gak ada pengaruh aku" translated something like " oh? I don't know, and its pretty far away too. already hard finding food, you think I care about a place far away wich has no influence on me" So the relevance of it is non existent to Balinese people. Now if you want to add the people from Java to the equation, wich most of them are of Islam faith....they seem to be far more worried about some dangdut singer who shakes her ass, or some semi-nude pics of a Indonesian model/actress, or some singer videotaping his sexual escapades... So you tell me who really cares???other then obviously you ofcourse... Finally, I do not see how the western villa's on Bali relate to the TNI or the kopassus

cabaicabai

you can't follow? give up it's beyond you.

gilbert de jong

cabaicabai wrotehahaha yes you know because the Balinese you have spoken to represent all Balinese. Not stung by the tni reference at all I guess. Oh and building western villas all over the countryside further marginalises farmers which is the original point of this thread, not a big leap And finally your generally low opinion of the Javanese says more about you than them I'd say Friendly greetings cabaicabai

[COLOR="red"]if one talks to 10 people, and they all answer the same, good bet that the next ten also answer the same, when more people being asked, the chances of an opposite answer to all the other answers increases, pretty basic...yes ?? :icon_e_ugeek:[/COLOR] .[COLOR="red"]hahaha...pretty big leap, imho[/COLOR] .[COLOR="red"] again reading is very hard it seems, I wrote javanese of islam faith and I'm just stating facts here buddy no personal opinion..just turn on your radio or TV...you won't see any javanese islam on the barricades fighting for humanrights, because to preoccupied by other insignificant things(as described in prev.post), but at least they try to change/fight something wich they have control over...well somewhat..Now Imagine they would care and go the lengths to organise and arrange a demo for the problem in timur, who nows what might happen...but again they won't, and you know why...They don't care[/COLOR]

gilbert de jong

yeah...It's me who can't follow, not that strange considering you keep editing your posts :icon_rolleyes: FYI, other members can't follow you too but they choose to not engage in a verbal,not leading anywhere, timewaisting discussion,...because they DO NOT CARE :icon_lol: Me...I had hope to shine a light into that dark dark chamber filled with grey braincells, but you're right, it's beyond me how someone can be so ignorant,borderline mental, and since it's beyond my control to enwisen you, I give up...:icon_lol: And yes I would rather help someone find a vet, make visa's more understandable, or the IMB for that matter, then to discuss some TNI/Kopassus conspiracy dated way bak from 2002/2003 :icon_rolleyes: goodluck, dan jangan lupa ya.....hati baik,mikir baik,mulut baik :icon_lol:

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