ronb
[b]Why are somoe Bali districts poorer?[/b]
MiSO wrote
Btw Markit,maybe I should go to Ahmed and region for awhile to see myself, but what I don't understand is, yes it's a poor area (I heard). But are there self supporting projects? E.g. Region Gianyar (UBud, Celuk etc) is full of crafting possibilities, it is -the- most active area of Bali in making and ordering. I don't see why people over there couldn't be trained to do the same. Is it the distance? Too far a way from airport, post offices and other facilities?
Historically, the areas of Bali that were agriculturally better (particularly with rice) have been more wealthy. East of Agung there is a bit of a rain shadow, and the slopes are not so friendly to terracing. While now the economy may be driven more by tourism - it seems that the districts that have been poor in the past are still poor.
Markit
Oh my fecking Jeddi, what is wrong with you people? On the worst day I ever had (beggar-wise) in Bali I ran into about 5 of them. Now if you were to give each of them 1000 whole Rupiahs that would amount to an amazing 45 cent US. If that is going to break your bank or ruin their moral upbringing then it/they wasn't worth a shite in the first place.
In Bombay they have career beggars and these guys (except the crippled) are worth every penny you give them - did anybody ever run into the "shit on your shoe" scam? He offers to clean it off, after secretly placing it there himself. Magic!
MiSO wrote
Btw Markit,maybe I should go to Ahmed and region for awhile to see myself, but what I don't understand is, yes it's a poor area (I heard). But are there self supporting projects? E.g. Region Gianyar (UBud, Celuk etc) is full of crafting possibilities, it is -the- most active area of Bali in making and ordering. I don't see why people over there couldn't be trained to do the same. Is it the distance? Too far a way from airport, post offices and other facilities?
Sure i guess they could be trained by "somebody" but like I keep saying here "Somebody" is us - are you offering?
ronb wroteHistorically, the areas of Bali that were agriculturally better (particularly with rice) have been more wealthy. East of Agung there is a bit of a rain shadow, and the slopes are not so friendly to terracing. While now the economy may be driven more by tourism - it seems that the districts that have been poor in the past are still poor.
Nail on the Head there Ron - also some geological information - the east of the island was cut off from the rest of Bali through lava flows from the last big eruption in ....sry....68 or 73 I'm not sure which. But it had an enormous effect here that the locals on the other side of the flow suddenly couldn't get their goodies or themselves to market any more with the expected consequences....
triggywiggy
MiSO wroteThanks for your explanation, Ron.
I already did a lot of this, Markit. But yeah, ideas keep on rolling. I like to hand over the implementation- part though. Or do you like to 'sponsor' me, while I 'sponsor' them? :icon_e_smile:
You also said, "what is 1000 rups...". You are right, it's nothing, but it is not always, most of the time not, about the money...
BTW. renting a child to beg is 10.000 Rupiah per day.
i dont understand what you are on about are you one of those fakers
Blondie
I give money to old people. and usually around 20 or 50,000.. something that will impact them
I ignore the kids holding babies and the women doing the same at intersections on Sunset Rd... It makes my stomach hurt to see them, but they are everywhere and it is organised, and no matter how much theyre given, they will be back tomorrow for that very reason... the organisation. It isnt our responsibilty to support that organisation and by giving to it, we do support it's continuation.
Balinese have their own system. Anyone dealing with a banjar and beyond knows that. Bali needs to deal with this
I once stopped and bought some cooked local food and bottles of Aqua to a group of them and got the look of disgust because they couldnt take that back to their handlers at the end of the day, so... Im done with that
But the elderly, who you dont see often with their hands out, always get something substantial from me... just by their age, they've earned something easy and Im happy to give it
N
MiSO
ronb wroteHistorically, the areas of Bali that were agriculturally better (particularly with rice) have been more wealthy. East of Agung there is a bit of a rain shadow, and the slopes are not so friendly to terracing. While now the economy may be driven more by tourism - it seems that the districts that have been poor in the past are still poor.
Thanks for your explanation, Ron.
Markit wrote
Sure i guess they could be trained by "somebody" but like I keep saying here "Somebody" is us - are you offering?
.
I already did a lot of this, Markit. But yeah, ideas keep on rolling. I like to hand over the implementation- part though. Or do you like to 'sponsor' me, while I 'sponsor' them? :icon_e_smile:
You also said, "what is 1000 rups...". You are right, it's nothing, but it is not always, most of the time not, about the money...
BTW. renting a child to beg is 10.000 Rupiah per day.
MiSO
Blondie wroteI give money to old people. and usually around 20 or 50,000.. something that will impact them
I ignore the kids holding babies and the women doing the same at intersections on Sunset Rd... It makes my stomach hurt to see them, but they are everywhere and it is organised, and no matter how much theyre given, they will be back tomorrow for that very reason... the organisation. It isnt our responsibilty to support that organisation and by giving to it, we do support it's continuation.
Balinese have their own system. Anyone dealing with a banjar and beyond knows that. Bali needs to deal with this
I once stopped and bought some cooked local food and bottles of Aqua to a group of them and got the look of disgust because they couldnt take that back to their handlers at the end of the day, so... Im done with that
But the elderly, who you dont see often with their hands out, always get something substantial from me... just by their age, they've earned something easy and Im happy to give it
N
It's true you know. I learned so many things about this subject today (it kept me busy)
A lady told me that even if you'd offer them education, they' d refuse it. Begging is what they want to do.
Twiggy, read Markit's post in whole, I cut only 1 sentence of the text he posted.
The question is: what is poverty? Poverty in Europe is different from poverty in Indonesia. Walking on barefoot, is that poverty?
Not having a mobile is that poverty? Dying from hunger...yeah...no discussion possible.
bolli
I give if and when I feel like it.
triggywiggy
bolli wroteI give if and when I feel like it.
I will to lol if they look poor
gingerkiss
If I want to help the poor usually I hand out money to the one who working collecting rubbish at 0ne aclock in the morning, you often see them pushing their vehicle with loads of rubbish.I do rather hand out my money to them than the beggar.
Bower
In all my travels i try hard not to assist a growing begging economy.
Its not all about cash. I have purchased a bycycle in Cambodia for a fisherwoman, cost $25 US.
One years school fees in Ghana £50.00. A set of English school books and a mobile phone in Burma £30.00
One generous purchase to make a real difference to someone needy.
Markit
Good for you mate - that's the way to do it if you have the time and inclination - but you have to be very careful what you do.
Knew of a poor fishing family in Sri Lanka - the boy was "adopted" by westerners that sent him money and paid for education. Upon next visit found that Papa had quit fishing and was now living well on sons "donations". Needless to say son didn't get much out of it. All bought presents had been sold for money.
It aint easy being good :icon_evil:
soontobeexpat
I do my own charitable things in Bali so I dont really get invlved with th orphanges.. however I always get a doggy bag on the way out and manage to find someone to give it to.... A TJ's meal made one man cry, a Chi Chis meal had me spat on by a woman w/ kid and demand money
springer2003
Bower wroteIn all my travels i try hard not to assist a growing begging economy.
Its not all about cash. I have purchased a bycycle in Cambodia for a fisherwoman, cost $25 US.
One years school fees in Ghana £50.00. A set of English school books and a mobile phone in Burma £30.00
One generous purchase to make a real difference to someone needy.
I have the misfortune of catching with those lady beggars who rent kids for a day. Its deplorable the idea of renting a child/baby and then standing next to the lights or walking to the tourist area in the heat. Any one wants to have a look they have timings into legian st at about 1540 hours and back aroung 1830 hours. Clearly the social department in Bali are far better off financially then lets say West Timor and giving money only encourages this behaviour with some getting aggressive. The old saying give a person food and he will be hungry tomorrow, give him a job and he will never be hungry:icon_e_ugeek:
buaya
most if not all of those kids you see on the streets are more or less owned by some fagin-like character, and any money you give them goes directly to him. so i don't give any money, ever - it just encourages mr. fagin to buy a couple more kids, put em on the streets at 3am, and up his profits.
on the other hand, i often used to carry around small toys in my car (little 10 packs of knockoff hotwheels cars, plastic barbie jewelry and cheap dolls for the girls, etc) stuff that has zero resale value but the kids love em. i'd stop at a light, give a little toy to one of the kids, and suddenly all 6 kids working the light will run up as fast as they can, with huge grins on their faces, especially after i give one to all of them. i sold my car though, and they've cut down on the traffic light kids lately (good for the bali govt!) so i rarely get to do this any more.
as for the kuta kids, every once in a while if a kid approaches me and is polite, i'll take em straight into the nearest circle k and buy em a milk and a candy bar. again, nothing for fagin and the kids seem to appreciate it, though they usually continue to ask for cash the whole time. i usually get a thanks and ceccitation of begging once they've got the milk and candy in hand.
be careful though, in true oliver twist style a lot of those bali street kids have a reputation for a bit of pick pocketing as well.
anyway there are loads of orphanages in bali, i try to give a million or two to one of them every year, i think it's a better way to help at the end of the day.
Ilovetravel
I am often in the same dilemma. waiting for someone sharing his/her experience.
celia
I nearly got caught out, in Padangbai...my Javanese partner & I were eating at a small warung, & were approached by an elderly guy wanting money...
He was dressed in dirty rags, & had filthy bandages on his legs & hands...
My man offered him a meal, but he said he had eaten that day but needed money for food tomorrow.
As I was rummaging about in my bag, looking for some money to give , my man suddenly told him to go away...
I was horrified with his attitude, until he told me that he had noticed that one of the hand bandages had slipped, & the old devil's fingers were dripping with gold! LMAO:icon_biggrin:
celia
One of our neighbours (who became a very good friend) had a foodcart at the beach in Kuta....I would give him money each week, for him to feed anyone that he felt really needed it....some nights he would feed no one, & other times two or three , in a night...
It involved a degree of trust in his honesty, but I never felt ripped off by him.......for me this was a good way of giving, without me having to decide on the genuineness of the recipient...
mat
celia wroteOne of our neighbours (who became a very good friend) had a foodcart at the beach in Kuta....I would give him money each week, for him to feed anyone that he felt really needed it....some nights he would feed no one, & other times two or three , in a night...
It involved a degree of trust in his honesty, but I never felt ripped off by him.......for me this was a good way of giving, without me having to decide on the genuineness of the recipient...
Excellent way of helping. 'Sponsor a Bakso man".
Markit
Thanks Celia - I will remember that, marvelous idea.
arch7
It´s difficult situation, because as the OP said [I]¨what if they just fake being poor¨[/I], anyway, beggers are global now, you can be in Switzerland or Indonesia, and it´s a difficult situation when you see them helpless but you fear that if you give to one, you will be surrended by more..
