Adam
:shock: In shooting down your completely incorrect comment "The world is full of people, unfortunately, that don't earn much money - some of the poorest people on the planet are in Africa. Hear of any suicide bombings come out of there? Any? One?" with a Google search that took all of about 5 seconds (and that was just the tip of the iceberg) to prove untrue, I'm the one that has an intelligence problem? Gee whiz....but never mind, it's kinda what we've come to expect.Yes, pure monetary poverty doesn't immediately create terrorism but it certainly sows the seed for it. If your a dirt poor and uneducated youngster from the backlots of Jawa Tengah, have little exposure to the 'bigger picture' of the world and have a corrupting influence on the sidelines offering help and advice (e.g Bashir) who you gunna believe? Of course it makes it easy to believe that the westerner is the devil when they have so little yet any exposure they have to us is displaying extravagance and greed. When people are desperate they do desperate things. And I think Gilbert hits the nail on the head why whats occuring in Indonesia is: Money is what makes the wheels turn, and alot of money is coming to Indonesia through the mosques. Bingo. Indo is still in the early years of a democracy and I believe there is a certain oil producing country trying desperately to get their grubby influence increased throughout the country. Who's the easiest to convert? The poor. How many suicide bombers do you see from affluent backgrounds or countries? None, I'm guessing. Indonesian's aren't stupid people and given western opportunities and a chance to break out of the poverty cycle, the 'religious fanatacism' you seem to be so paranoid of, would certainly disappear (of course with the exception of the mung beans that occur in any human population, e.g. Scientologists).But no, keep 'em poor hey. Then there's plenty of 'little brown people' eager to change Mr Average's diaper for peanuts, right :?:
Markit
Well just looky there! No need to search the world for the real answers to terrorism in the world today. Just log on to your friendly neighbourhood Expat forum and find out that Africa is a hot-bed of Fundamentalist terrorism all looking to just earn minimum wage!I don't think we are going to agree on this so lets just let it fade quietly into the sunset and hope that we won't have to witness too many more acts of idiocy perpetrated against innocents by people that know not what they are doing.I will go so far and agree that poverty is a component of the problem but by far not even the most important part, in my belief. There are just too many poor people on the planet that simply don't resort to bombing or any other form of demonstration to achieve their desired goals.I always try to bear in mind that however poor the poorest are in today's world, 100 years ago they would have been considered middle class, on a dietary and health level, if not monetarily.And we "rich" Bule are poor as church mice in comparison to the truly wealthy that make up the rich lists of so many countries in the west. Shouldn't we be terrorizing them? Who was it that said we should all eat the rich? Go in peace, but go!Markit
goldminer
The latest bombings in Jakarta are a tragedy for Indonesia and for freedom in the world.Just last month on the night before returning to Oz from a relaxing holiday in Java and bali, my wife, rugrat and I had dinner at the Marriot Hotel, in the same room that was bombed. It shows just how vulnerable we all are. The security on entering the hotel was first class, some of the best i have seen, however it seems to be that the terrorist had access or help from with in. There is no way that i can see explosives being brought through the front door.I also seem to remember having an argument with Roy, regarding the travel warnings issued by the Oz govt in regards to Indonesia and Bali. Seems Roy was wrong!
JohnnyCool
An observation (or two).I've been reading an old hard-copy of "[i]The World Almanac and Book of Facts[/i]" (1988). It has an interesting section called "[i]Nations of the World[/i]", with brief summaries on all countries. All kinds of data such as age distribution of populations, languages, religions, industries, transport (how many motor vehicles, TVs/radios, doctors,hospitals), life expectancy at birth, infant mortality, education (literacy, schools, school attendance), defence expenditure, per capta income, etc.One thing that struck me was the education figures for predominately Moslem countries compared to non-Moslem countries. Most countries with "Islam" as their main religion seemed to be "impoverished" in most of the other indices. Even the "richest" ones.Some examples: [b]Saudi Arabia[/b] (99% Moslem), scored a literacy rate of 50% for men (1986 figures), infant mortality of 100 per 1,000 live births, defense 29.6% of government budget (1983), per capita income $11,500 (1979).[b]Indonesia[/b] (90% Moslem): literacy 72%, infant mortality 90.3, defense 2.8% (1983), per capita income $560 (1982).[b]Afghanistan[/b] (80% Sunni, 20% Shi'a): literacy 10%, infant mortality ?, defense 3% (1984), per capita income $168 (1978).[b]Iran[/b] (93% Shi'a Moslem): literacy 48%, infant mortality 112, defense 5% (1983), per capita income $2,170 (1977).[b]Pakistan[/b] (97% Moslem): literacy 26% (1985), infant mortality 125 (1985), defense 5.4% (1983), per capita income $364 (1984).Note that even though those figures are from 21 years ago, (or more), they still portray an interesting snapshot, of sorts. I don't have current statistics for an immediate comparison. It's not my job to perform detailed statistical analyses. These are simply observations of mine to be taken as just that. I can't scientifically prove any "connections" between all the possible variables. To do so would require years of research, funding. And maybe someone already has.Poverty and level of education go hand in hand. No money = no school. No school = a population that lacks secular "knowledge", or, poor ability to argue, judge, compare, consider, debate, question, whatever regime the population is under. Think for itself, in other words.The question of what/who constitues a "terrorist" has a myriad of answers. George W. Bush Jr springs to mind immediately and it looks like he got away with it. Unhappily, many powerful nations and governments continue to abuse their own citizens' human rights, and those of their neighbouring countries. No shortage of examples here - China, India, Israel, Russia, etc. Add a plethora of smaller countries such as Burma, North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Turkey, Fiji...many more in Africa, South America.Job opportunities for "suicide bombers" continue to rise.Sad but true. 8)
