Markit
As I'm 2 sheets into the bottle of Glen Morangie and reading 3 or 4 threads at the same time it occurred to me that I hadn't actually understood above half of each thread. Now many will say this has to do with the finest export of Scotland (behind Haggis) but I think it had more to do with the fact that many or the western contributors (most of us) are trying their hand at the Indonesian (for the real hard-core, Balinesian) language. This demo of language abilities may be fantastically cool but doesn't aid the main purpose of this forum which is mutual understanding. Being able to share ideas and impressions is fantastic but only if [b]I[/b] understand what [b]YOU[/b] are saying. Now saying hello, goodbye or the various greetings that Indonesian has to offer is lovely and gives a real feeling of being there. But if you want to get deeper into any subject, well. Bahasa Indonesia, may I respectfully submit may not work here - except, of course, for Indonesians :? who are not very well represented here and have a whole country where they [u]can[/u] be understood.Can I ask (humbly) that the incredibly intelligent contributors to this wonderful forum restrict themselves to English, German, French or Spanish? Please?
KaBIm
Though I understand your concern, Markit, I am gonna give you a personal example. I am not a native english speaker as you may have noticed in many of my posts :oops: However, I speak on a daily basis my local dialect and bahasa Indonesia, because I love it, but also because I have no other choice :roll: . Where I live, no-one understands or speaks English, apart the basic "hellobulewhatsyournameIloveyoumister". Therefore, bahasa indonesia became little by little my first language and is the language I use with my kids and wife. Expressing myself in english is a [u]real[/u] pain, and forces me to do much more effort than expressing myself in my local dialect or bahasa indonesia (both are very closely related). I have then the choice of mixing english and a little of bahasa indonesia, in order to make it easier for me to express myself, or not to bother to post. Readers have the choice of making a little effort to understand, or not to bother to read.If you explain something a bit technical, you can not skip bahasa indonesia. Some words are loosing in translation, or sometimes the translator is not good enough in english (which is my case) to express the exact meaning of the word. Providing the original version in Bahasa Indonesia, allows any readers to do their own research or to correct a translation. To continue on my personal example, when and if something is unclear in one of my post, I will always take time to re-explain it if asked.Note that I believe that when one decides to live in a country as a guest, one may do a bit of effort to understand the language spoken in the country. :) I believe that Bali has a few schools for those who would developp an interest in the language in order to ensure a succesfull adaptation.Alternatively, if we trade some of your Glenmorangie, I'd be glad to give you a translation of any ununderstood words/expressions you may come accross. :wink:
Anton
Markit wrote Now many will say this has to do with the finest export of Scotland (behind Haggis) [/quote]Eh the only reason whisky was invented was to hide the taste of the haggis :mrgreen: Bit of a nip in the air dont you think :lol: Nantiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii[/code]
Markit
Ha ha very good, you can call my poor old mother nasty names, dispute my gender choices or pick on the best woman in the world (BWW) but do not, I repeat, do not say anything bad about Glen Morangie! It's what's kept my marriage together, smoothed lifes bumps and kept me out of prison (for want of using harder substances). About using foreign tongues on the forum. I totally agree we should all take a firm hold of the language of our chosen home or target home and the sooner the better. Butt, and I'm told it's a large one, if you want people to understand what you are saying, which I presume is the point of all this, then you must make some changes to your output. KaBIm in looking over your posts I can't help the feeling that there aint much out there that you can't adequately describe in your near to perfect English - if you only wanted to :)
Thorsten
Gee Markit,not in my worst nightmare I was dreaming of we could have anything in common and now this! :shock:[attachment=0:2oadb2vb]DSC_0172+b.jpg[/attachment:2oadb2vb]
Markit
As the saying goes "Don't [b]ASSUME[/b] anything, it makes an [b]ASS[/b] out of[b] U[/b] and [b]ME[/b]" Other than the saying looking nice it's a load of old bullshit.Germans know their engineering and their drink - always did enjoy a beer going down the autobahn :lol:
gilbert de jong
Hi Markit,I agree, sometimes it's hard to understand 'WHAT' someone means, or 'HOW' someone means what they are saying. People tend to jump to conclusions(also in real-life) or make assumptions based on what they think the other means. I try to be open-minded and if I dont understand something, I ask. Other people maybe think asking is a sign of stupidity, but I disagree with that. Without asking it's a lot harder to learn something. The following line is something I read somewhere, and I don't know if it is a saying but I thought It's funny......"As light travels faster then sound, some people may seem bright...till they start to talk."I don't mean someone in particular, just wanted to share and be happy :) .Friendly greetings....Gilbert.
Markit
Righty ho Gil. As most of us seem to have trouble understanding each other in our own mother tongues what can we expect from liberally combining them with foreign sayings :lol: My father always used to say "it's better to be silent and thought stupid, than to speak, and remove all doubt" :lol: Sayings are wonderful, particularly from foreign languages - they mean a great deal, [u]but only in the language they are spoken in[/u]. My favourite example was one from German: Da legt der hunt begraben. Direct translation: That's where the dog is buried. It doesn't mean shit in English but to a German they will understand that that is where the meaning of whatever you have been discussing is - the main point.So all you that want to use the odd Balinese saying be aware it probably don't mean shit in anything out of its context.
tintin
You have a point, Markit.My maternal grand mother always used to pepper her opinions with popular sayings, proverbs, etc, like any rural person did in her days. I remember one in particular that I tried using several times translated into English, and, believe me, it raised many eyebrows. Although from Aragon, she most often spoke in Catalan, and this particular saying was,"Hi ha un gos per a cada gossa."which translates into English something like"There is a dog for every dog (bitch)."I let you imagine the reaction among PC Americans... :lol:
JohnnyCool
As most of us seem to have trouble understanding each other in our own mother tongues what can we expect from liberally combining them with foreign sayings?[/quote]More confusion?What ever happened to Esperanto? I have never met a single person who can speak it.I came across this gem the other day, which is still bothering me:[b]"A forest without pigs is like a ballroom without women"[/b] :D
gilbert de jong
isnt esperanto a combination of spanish and portugese? Think that in south america you should find someone who speeks it...ola,tengo cerveza? With this you shouldnt go thirtsty,not in brasil and not in argentine :wink:
JohnnyCool
...isnt esperanto a combination of spanish and portugese?[/quote]Not exactly, but it has borrowed many words from predominantly Western European languages.It's often referred to as an [i]invented world language[/i] or an [i]auxiliary international language[/i]. There are plenty of internet sites dealing with it. :D
Markit
[b]"A forest without pigs is like a ballroom without women"[/b] :D[/quote][/quote]The real burning question is "what's a forest without women?"I be almost willing to be the saying comes from France - they love wild boar and ballroom dancing so easy... :lol:
JohnnyCool
No idea [b]where[/b] that saying comes from, but I take your point.So now you want to confuse me even more?The real burning question is "what's a forest without women?"[/quote]Does the forest have pigs in it?What's a woman without a forest?[i]A galaxy without a bush is like a karaoke bar run by Elvis on peanut butter.[/i][i]Peanut butter doesn't grow on trees in forests without sows.[/i][i]The Large Hadron Collider cost a lot of peanuts that don't grow in Switzerland.[/i][i]Two pigs, forced to collide at near the speed of light, couldn't care less if there were ballrooms or forests in the vicinity.[/i][i]A black hole is [b]not[/b] something you see in a piece of Swiss cheese. It's different.[/i] :mrgreen: :D
tintin
But the most burning question is: [b]what is a ballroom without pigs?[/b]
lumumba
This is it : :roll: :roll: My HogsJames BuchanSometimes, standing in the small wood that shields my house from the north, I whisper the word 'Pigs!' Within a second, bursting from the laurels, alert and obedient as no dog could be, comes a pair of Gloucester Old Spot gilts to nuzzle my hand. Or sometimes, if I am late with their afternoon bucket of scraps, they break out of their enclosure and hurtle across to bang their rumps against the kitchen door. As I contemplate these animals, my mind's eye fills with placid agricultural visions. More and extensive areas of the woods are cleared of brambles and brush. My cow begins to produce milk and the pigs take the surplus, like a Denmark in miniature; or they are turned out when the corn is cut to glean the spilled grain; or when the orchard is up, they manure the trees and eat the insect-tainted fruit. In this beautiful and frictionless economy (in the old Xenophontic or Aristotelian sense of household rather than state management, which is, properly, political economy), the pig is the heart and soul, the wild card, the blockbuster, the Maxim gun. [b]Indeed, to me a wood without pigs is like a ballroom without women.[/b][url="http://www.lrb.co.uk/v23/n20/james-buchan/my-hogs"]http://www.lrb.co.uk/v23/n20/james-buchan/my-hogs[/url]
JohnnyCool
what is a ballroom without pigs?[/quote]Maybe a dance venue where everybody can get stoned?Hey [b]lumumba[/b]Thanks for that link to [i]James Buchan[/i]. Fascinating stuff.I always suspected that I underestimated pigs, probably like most of us.A friend of mine kept a pig as a pet. Took it nearly everywhere with him. It was highly intelligent, as Tom kept telling me pigs are.Unfortunately, Tom was also schizophrenic. That didn't stop him from being an excellent musician, guitar maker, accomplished con man and expert in all things related to wood. I lost contact with Tom many years ago. Maybe he died. I lost a couple of electric guitars that he was fixing for me. Don't get me wrong, I loved the guy.I just hope that his pet pig didn't eat him one night. :lol:
Markit
It may be an allegory or have a moral point to it, I don't know but the pig story reminded me of orchard owners in the mid western states of the US. Once the apples were harvested they would then turn loose horses in the orchards to eat all the windfall apples on the ground and to then complete the chain they would turn loose pigs to eat the horse "apples". Guess who ate those pigs? They were special and only available to family and friends.
