mimpimanis
I dont know about The Gilis but I do know in Kuta (Lombok) there is an effort to clean up. Locals and tourists alike. Infact there are two Canadian girls that have been in jail, for about 5 months now, awaiting trial.
KaBIm
"As far as I know, they will (if not done already) go after them.As far as I know, they will (if not done already) go after them."Ive got news for you Ka Bim... they won't. You have as much chance of getting busted on Gili T as you have of winning Tatslotto!!Ever been there? It's location makes it just about impossible for anyone, Indonesian official no matter how official, to go unnoticed by locals. Like all drug infested locations across the world, the supply goes underground when any suspicious dudes arrive. How stupid do you think Indonesian dealers are? Next one - how many busts occur there? Makes you wonder sometimes just WHO is running the show out there on that small chain of islands i spose.Check it out for yourself next time you head to Nth West Lombok - it's choca block! Pot heads galore - no cops. Been that way for years."usually do a great job" - you gotta be kidding right? :shock:[/quote]Quite funny to read...Thanks for the laugh :D FYI:[url="http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/04/13/issues-two-canadians-remain-police-custody039.html"]http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009 ... dy039.html[/url][url="http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/04/01/two-arrested-canadians-remain-police-custody.html"]http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009 ... stody.html[/url][url="http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2006/09/09/briton-arrested-buying-drugs.html"]http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2006 ... drugs.html[/url]It has just took me 2 minutes to dig it out...
gilbert de jong
Hello y'all,To start of on a funny note....Ok they smoked the stuff but didnt bill clinton admit to having a puff ![/quote] Yeah he did, but he said he didn't inhale :wink: :lol: .Kabim wrote in his first post here about a guy that got caught at the airport with 4 kg of hash, and doing a lifesentence for it, he was what is called a mule..and a small fish (guppie). Being a foreigner is why it has been covered by the media so extensive. Same goes for the other people he mentions.As far as I know, they will (if not done already) go after them. BNN (Badan Narkotika Nasional) usually do a great job and it has means (material and financial) that most of the other sections of the police just don't have. It is quite easy for them to catch fishes (small or big) all over Indonesia.[/quote] hihihi, wonder who provides them with their resources, to catch those little fishies :wink: .It's all about keeping up apearances to the outside world, if you (no one in particular) understand what I mean?As for going after the sellers a personal story...A Balinese friend of mine, convicted for 3 years because having 10 grams of 'buds' (not budweiser :lol: ) was initialy not arrested but beaten to a pulp for info where he bought it, he gave up the name and adress of the low-level dealer who got busted too, because of that. So if they (the police) have info they will pursue that. Don't know about the gilli island, but as small as those Islands are, business can't be big :lol: .But higher up the ladder then the 'Mule' or little house dealer it will rarely go, big fish are more affraid of being eaten by a bigger fish then the police.How stupid do you think Indonesian dealers are? [/quote] hmmm, very stupid.Makes you wonder sometimes just WHO is running the show out there on that small chain of islands i spose.[/quote] Not only those little Islands.Is it because drug cases often have no clear cut victim and/or perpetrator as do murder cases?[/quote] I am wondering how they would handle a murder in the drugs-scene :lol: :lol: . Just joking Markit...wanted to end the way I begun this post, on a happy note...Friendly greetings, Gilbert.
Dasha
Didn't think it was a laughing matter. Two in jail in Indonesia for drugs... what's the laugh?Point is ...to say that someone is going to clean up the drug mess out on the Gilis is ridiculous. And to say some big-time official from the government will do something about is just as ludicrous. Quote again "I am always amazed to read very negative input based on assumptions by people with no or poor knowledge of the Indonesian judicial system."I am always amazed at people who know very little about regions in Indonesia.If you asked who are the BNN (Badan Narkotika Nasional) to any dealer out there, they would simply laugh at you.And regarding your 3 links... are you for real? There are kilos of dope on tap ( not quality funnily enough).. and the best the so called BNN (Badan Narkotika Nasional) can do is a few grams huh? Come on man . West Nusa Tengara is not Gili Trawangan either.Sorry Mimp you are right - you don't know about what is going on up North. Maybe you should vist now and again too!Like I say, ever been there KB?Sorry KaBim you are out of your depth on this one. Might want to just focus on things Baliwise hey? For which you will have no argument here.Hope that helps. :D
KaBIm
Kabim wrote in his first post here about a guy that got caught at the airport with 4 kg of hash, and doing a lifesentence for it, he was what is called a mule..and a small fish (guppie). Being a foreigner is why it has been covered by the media so extensive. Same goes for the other people he mentions.[/quote]7 of the 9 ossies arrested in the Bali 9 where nothing more than mules, IMHO. However the french guy was not. He was, let's say, a small entrepreneur expecting do make some extra bucks back from a trip to India.However, I definitively agree with you about the relation you made in between extensive coverage and being a foreigner.It also helps some, in this country, who like to make believe that the drug problem come from outsiders.As for going after the sellers a personal story... So if they (the police) have info they will pursue that.[/quote]Exactly my point.But higher up the ladder then the 'Mule' or little house dealer it will rarely go, big fish are more affraid of being eaten by a bigger fish then the police.[/quote]Everyweek or so, mules get busted at soekarno hatta. Though I agree with you, sometimes the big fishes get away, it is not rare that they finally get caught. Quite a few high profile cases involving international ring got dismantled in the past few years. Aside of it, I believe that many get "protected" due to the level of corruption to be found in the indonesian police.When I was stressing the fact that "BNN usually do a great job", I was talking about their ability to strike when they have informations. They are quick, certainly not without brutality, to obtain confessions and proofs.
KaBIm
Point is ...to say that someone is going to clean up the drug mess out on the Gilis is ridiculous. [/quote]Did I say so? Why do you talk about Gili? The two swedes got caught in Bali after having bought 20 joints in Kuta Lombok. I still don't understand why you seem to persist on talking about Gili... If you asked who are the BNN (Badan Narkotika Nasional) to any dealer out there, they would simply laugh at you.[/quote]I believe you have done the experience... :D I would like you to tell m if they still laugh when they get caught... Just wondering. :roll: West Nusa Tengara is not Gili Trawangan either.[/quote]It's not, you're right... as well as Gili is not the topic of the OP or the thread...
Dasha
The men told officials they had bought 20 marijuana cigarettes for Rp. 400,000 (US$36) on Gili island, near Lombok from a tour guide.gotta follow the thread young man! :D
KaBIm
Check your source, sayang:[url="http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009"]http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009[/url] ... ssion.htmlHead of drug division Sr. Comr. Kokot Indarto said the suspects, Kjell Avald Holst, 25, and Karl John Bronell, 26, told police they spent the first week in Lombok Island, West Nusa Tenggara, and bought 20 marijuana cigarettes from a stranger in Kuta beach.Antara, Detik and Kompas report the same story... :wink: But thanks to call me young man... :DThis post will end my participation in this thread.
gilbert de jong
Dasha...maybe you should get some anti-slip tiles for the bathroom :lol: :lol: .Kabim, any person transporting dope on his body or luggage is a mule, and is being used by the middle-management to get product from place A to B. just as an example...sometimes on the same plane are two mules, person one carries 1 kilo and the other 5 kilo...a phonecall is made to the authorities complete with name and seatnumber of person 1, whilest in the confusion of arresting person 1, person 2 is hardly checked cause the lack of attention at that moment. Somewhat the same with sea-freight containers, one shipment is given up for the other to pass through.Add to that fact the corruption level in Indonesia, the many seaports, i'm sure it can be very lucrative, however I wouldn't wanted to get caught with my pants down, and I make enough money in a varely 'legal' way. Although it's 'legal' back in Holland, one does have to get in to the country in a non-legal way :roll: .It amazes me that they still use the airports instead of the fisherboats that can make offshore meetings, if you know what I mean?To end it on a happy note again,,,Dasha asked "what's the laugh" Exactly that and for those two stupid tourist....smoking in a hotelroom, and then get caught, too stupid or just too stoned...either way, it's funny.
Dasha
That's cool KaBim - good luck there on the drugs crusade, but i don't agree that the cops at any level do a good job on it here in Indo. Probably anywhere for that matter!Money and corruption rule unfortunately. It's just a shame that 2 young men have to do this kind of time for something very silly. And I know rules are rules ... but it is a such a shame.cheers mateDasha :D
mimpimanis
As I said and as you can see in the comments on that link the two Canadian girls were also caught in Kuta, Lombok. Questions are being asked why the people selling the drugs arent arrested? We dont know that they aren't.... it wouldnt be making the Jakarta post. Maybe they are stings... who knows. It happens elsewhere. I was just watching "Cops" last week with the american police setting up stings selling drugs and arresting buyers....Bottom line is if you take the chances you might get caught! Be prepared to pay the price if you do.
DorisDazed
[i][b]Kabim[/b][/i][i]Oops...just saw you've had enough to say in this thread. I'm posting my bit regardless.[/i]..Anyone proven guilty of growing, cultivating, having in stock, possessing, keeping or controlling narcotics belonging to category 1 (Golongan 1) is liable to a penal sanction up to IDR 500 millions and/or up to ten years in jail..[/quote]Is there a [u]Category 2[/u] in [u]Golongan 1[/u]? What does "golongan" mean, exactly? My dictionary reckons it means "1 group 2 class", which does very little in aiding my understanding. So, are there more than one "golongans"? If one represents two classes, two might represent four classes, (or more). I guess at least one of them includes bigger penalties such as jail sentences [b]in excess of ten years[/b] (like "life", for example), or death. With the "and/or" part, and if some poor bugger gets 10+ years [b]and[/b] the money fine, is it more than IDR 500 millions? Does somebody on death row get a discount? If not, does their family have to pay, or what?I thought it's also a crime here not to report information about somebody allegedly using or being involved with illegal substances. That sounds like a potentially tricky money spinner to me, redolent with possibilities.Notions of, and attempts by governments to curb drug trafficking and usage are cloaked in hypocrisy. The drugs that actually kill most people every year are legal ones, such as alcohol and nicotine, (add caffeine addiction, too). Far more than [b]all[/b] the "illegal" ones combined! Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Why is this so? Somebody must be making something out of demonising certain substances and not others.The biggest illegal opium plantations in the world these days are in countries like Afghanistan. Heroin is made from opium. These drugs are expensive to buy because they're illegal (which drives the prices up). The illegal drug trade is a multi-billion dollar business. Maybe all the fuss about Afghanistan is fundamentally related to who controls the profits from the opium there. Corrupt people in power occur everywhere. Every country in the world's got them. Some are better at hiding and getting away with it than others.Can you imagine what kind of financial strain would result if Indonesia banned smoking cigarettes? We all know that smoking is bad for us with multiple health risks and costs involved. The lost revenue from smokers would probably cripple the entire economy. Legalising, or decriminalsing marijuana would cut into the profits of current cigarette manufacturers, (at least initially). It's a double-edged sword.Two young Swedish guys have been busted. Big deal. Maybe they're stupid in the first place. If not stupid, very foolish. And now it's a matter of "do the 'crime', do the time". Bad luck happens but it's no excuse to be unaware of, and flippant about the laws of the country you're in.As someone said above, why aren't we hearing more about the suppliers and sellers getting busted? There was a case a while ago of a high-ranking police official in Java being arrested for drug dealing. What ever happened to him? Maybe he was innocent or maybe he got the ultimate "double discount".[i]But in the end, what would a dumb broad like me know, any way?[/i] :(
KaBIm
Is there a [u]Category 2[/u] in [u]Golongan 1[/u]? What does "golongan" mean, exactly? My dictionary reckons it means "1 group 2 class", which does very little in aiding my understanding. So, are there more than one "golongans"? If one represents two classes, two might represent four classes, (or more). [/quote]"Golongan" literally means Category. Narcotics, under Indonesian law are classified in three different "Golongan" named Golongan 1, Golongan 2, Golongan 3. There is penally no subdivision in each "golongan".Golongan 1 includes for example raw opium, coca leaves, cocain, cannabis plant and any product containing Tetrahydrocannabinol and all isomers including all chemical stereo forms, and heroin. For any of us westerners, this classification may sound odd because we are used to make a distinction in between al these products and we consider that THC related products are far less dangerous than heroin or coke for example. Indonesian's penal system does not differentiate them. In case of a conviction of [u]Importing[/u], [u]exporting[/u], [u]offering for sale[/u], buying, delivering narcotics included in the Golongan 1 the penalty that one could receive is the death penalty or life sentence or imprisonment of not more than 20 years and a fine of not more than IDR 1.000.000.000 (traduction of the article 82, verse 1, letter a. of the law on narcotics). The article 78 (the 2 swedes qualify for it) is tailored for people who are not involved in trafficking, which explains the "maximum of ten years sentence", while a proven conviction of trafficking could lead to the death penalty, depending on quantities and circumstances.Does somebody on death row get a discount? If not, does their family have to pay, or what?[/quote]No discount. Only presidential pardon could save anyone from the execution of a death sentence. So far it (presidential pardon) never happened in Indonesia for any crime related to narcotics, committed by foreigner or indonesian alike. Life term does not even qualify you for the grace program either. Only "minor" sentences could be reduced a little with the grace system, but it is usually a few days of grace per year accorded to a prisonner and here again, a narcotic conviction does not help to get a sentence reduced. Anyway, I guess that a week or so of reduction per year is no real big deal when you have 20 years to serve.Indonesia has in a recent past executed foreigners who were on death row for drug offenses. So did Malaysia, Singapura and VietNam. Asia is not exactly a safe heaven for this type of offense and those who would, in a public forum, write stupid statement such as "You have as much chance of getting busted on Gili T as you have of winning Tatslotto" are plain irresponsable. Hence my unwillingness to participate in the thread. I wonder how it would be interpreted by some young un' enjoying to smoke a joint and planning a trip to Bali or Lombok... Does it mean "if I smoke a joint in Gili, I have no chance to be busted"? I am afraid that it is not the right signal to convey to potential readers... and I am afraid that this is the kind of statement that leaded the two swedes where they are presently.As someone said above, why aren't we hearing more about the suppliers and sellers getting busted?[/quote]The national and regional press in Bahasa Indonesia, is usually well doted with reports of Korupsi and Narkoba cases if you have an interest in it. If you go to any major tribunal in Indonesia, I would be very surprised that you can not find 1 case per day being judged. Not reading it in the limited press in english does not mean that there is no case. My point is not to say that Indonesia is handling correctly the problem. It is just to say that if one does not speak bahasa indonesia, one's vision may well be trunkated.Anyway, I hope the above explanation concerning "Golongan" helps to clarify the distinction (or the lack of distinction) made in between drugs.
KaBIm
Kabim, any person transporting dope on his body or luggage is a mule, and is being used by the middle-management to get product from place A to B. just as an example...sometimes on the same plane are two mules, person one carries 1 kilo and the other 5 kilo...a phonecall is made to the authorities complete with name and seatnumber of person 1, whilest in the confusion of arresting person 1, person 2 is hardly checked cause the lack of attention at that moment. Somewhat the same with sea-freight containers, one shipment is given up for the other to pass through.[/quote]I have spent a few months living in Colombia some 15 or 20 years ago. This nasty technic has been used by the Colombian cartels with a lot of success for years. They sacrified a few mules with "small" quantities, while the big stuff was conveyed by another passenger/ship/plane. I do believe that the Colombians were the first to use and sacrify mules just for the sake of trafficking.
mimpimanis
As someone said above, why aren't we hearing more about the suppliers and sellers getting busted? [/quote]I asked Made today and apparently three locals have been arrested in Kuta in recent months and are currently in jail.
mat
Couple of things have changed in Bali over 40 years that have changed or inforced higher penalties on drug use. The main one is the Australian goverment realising all those years ago that Bali was used as a major drug route to Australia. So they asked the help [with the obvious financial support] of the Indonesian police to clamp down on the trade. It has made them popular with foreign goverments drug agencies ...more money. [sounds synical putting all down to cash but, isn't that what makes the world go round?]and because of that...The police who knew very little of this new and financialy rewarding crime, learnt about it and of course profited from bringing the lawbreaker to justice. That is without the obvious chances for the corrupt to make very large sums of money.There are native Balinese in prison that I know of been caught dealing and never gone to trial,. The only thing that happens is the huge release fine slowly comes down as the months pass.As said before, The only sensible thing to do in any country is...know and obey the law. Bali is better than drugs, why spoil the perfect high?
