StuckInNYC
Hi All,I've been lurking around here a while as I slowly but surely work towards making my move to Bali a reality. Before I ask for advice, I figure I should share my story so you all have some context:I'm 25 years old and currently reside in New York City. About three years ago I met an Indonesian girl in NYC and we really hit it off. About 3 months after we began dating, her visa was due to expire and it looked like we might be forced apart. Not being the type to give up easily (especially when it comes to love), I looked into various options to get her permanent residency in the USA so we could stay together. After ruling out everything but marriage, I took a huge chance and, despite advise to the contrary from family and friends, married her at city hall and began the US Greencard process. Fast forward to today and we're still happily together. What started as a marriage for logistical reasons has been slowly blossoming into "the real deal". In January of 2008, my wife and I visited Indonesia together to meet her family (she had not been home in more than 7 years). Her family was delightful and they arranged the trip of a lifetime for us in which we visited many unbelievable places in Indonesia, including Bali. While the entire country fascinated me, something about Bali resonated like nothing else. I have never really felt like I "belonged" in the US despite being spending my entire life here. I often feel like an outsider, looking in and often not liking what I see. From the minute I got off the plane in Denpasar, I was completely overwhelmed by the allure of Bali and it's boundless sensory wonders. I suppose I'm not alone in this as I've heard of many other cases of "Bali Head" or "Bali Syndrome", but because I initially embarked on the trip with little knowledge of Bali and few expectations, I think I was hit especially hard. I promised myself I would go back soon and in the ~15 months since I've been back in the US, I simply haven't been able to get Bali out of my brain.Unfortunately, I haven't been able to make it back due to business obligations and financial constraints here in the US. I own two businesses; a technology consulting firm that has several monetized web properties as subsidiaries, and a clothing line that is a joint venture with my wife. My technology business does reasonably well ($100,000USD+/yr for the past 6 years), but every penny I saved from it (less than you'd expect due to NYC's insanely high cost of living) was invested into the clothing startup. The business has grown nicely but the fashion industry in the US has been basically wiped out as the economy has deteriorated. As it stands now our savings are virtually non-existent and we have around $60,000 in debt to pay down. These depressing circumstances, combined with our mutual desire to "escape" the grind of New York, have us seriously considering a move (or partial move such as 6 months of the year) to Bali. The clothing business could actually benefit from the lower cost of skilled labor (and access to exotic fabrics and materials). My technology business would surely take a hit as I would lose proximity to many valuable clients, but I expect that I could maintain at least $4,000/mo. of steady income, potentially more than double that once I got established. About $1,500/mo. of this would need to go to debt payments.This brings me to my immediate question at hand...If we did relocate to Bali for at least 6-months, what sort of lifestyle could we expect to live if our net income from month to month averaged around $4k - $5k USD? What sorts of initial expenses should we plan for other than airfare, visa expenses, and enough money for 2-3 months of food, rent, etc? I can obviously think of many of the basics, but I figured I'd poll the forum in case anyone has additional insights or is aware of costs not immediately apparent. Basically, we want to make the move as soon as possible but we also want to have enough of a buffer that we can sustain a slow month or two at first and then have a reasonably comfortable existence thereafter. Given the research I've done and other posts I've read, it seems to me that $4k+/mo. should be sufficient for comfortable existence in Bali but a lot of my budgeting has been based on "bule prices" for housing, food, etc. I'm hoping some folks who've lived in Bali for a while can give me more realistic estimates of what to expect and plan for. We'd like to be located in a nice spot close to the action but not smack in the middle of it, maybe Sanur or Seminyak. Thanks in advance to anyone who can find the time to reply. I envy all of you folks who are currently enjoying the beautiful Bali climate and delicious cuisines. Hopefully, we'll soon be joining your ranks!
calitobali
$3-5k will be way more than sufficient, it's almost funny that you are asking this question with those figures.Personally, I live in Bali on around $500 USD per month, but I live in an Indonesian kos and eat warung food everyday. At your minimum of $3,000 you could have a really nice place, and tons of extra money left over for eating out and clubbing etc.
sander
Hey hey, I lived in bali (2004 ~ 2006) with an income of 350 EURO per month (excluding rent of the house) together with my wife.
Bert Vierstra
8k per year?Yes its possible...
StuckInNYC
Thanks much for the replies folks, I guess I'm a bit jaded from NYC living expenses in assuming a much higher baseline cost for Bali than what you all are saying. To put things in perspective, our bill for a modest 1 bedroom apartment in Manhattan is $2,500USD monthly and that's considered a great deal. By the time one ads utilities, tv/internet, two mobile phones, food, transportation, two health insurance plans (insanely over priced in the US), two gym memberships, etc we're talking about being on the hook for $6,000/mo.+ just to survive. When I look around outside and it's cold, dirty, and over-crowded with angry people grinding away, I constantly think to myself "what the heck am I doing here when I could be enjoying the sun in Bali, working on a humane schedule, eating delicious food, and having all kinds of lovely adventures." I'm sure it won't all be quite so rosy as that, but I'm also pretty darn sure it will be much better aligned with us than NYC.I think one challenge is that I'm searching for housing online from within the US. Given what's been written here, most of the prices I've come accross must be "westerner vacation prices" rather than "Bali resident prices". Does anyone have any good resources or links they can point me towards for figuring out a true monthly budget for Bali once one is established there a bit long term. I really have no idea what sort of home we could afford to rent. When I look online at villas and "resort homes" in the key areas of the island, the prices are always fairly high (over $2,000/mo). These aren't super extravagant places either, just the only long-term rentals I've been able to get information about online. Ideally, we'd like some modern comforts, most importantly always-on broadband internet (crucial for my business), AC, and at least basic international TV, but we don't expect to be living "high in the hog".Also, does anyone have leads on cheap airfare? I may need to fly to and from NYC once every 2-3 months or so for business, which would certainly bump up the average monthly cost of living.Basically, I'm looking for tips on how to accelerate the transition process of going from outsiders paying Bule tourist rates to locals establishing a home on the island. I understand this is probably something that happens naturally once we take the plunge, but advice (or links to other good posts and resources on the topic) would be appreciated.These boards are fabulous. It's been lovely to read about everyone's adventures in other threads.
spicyayam
As I have read here and many other forums. The best way to find property is to walk around the neighborhood where you want to live. Ask in local businesses if they know of anything available. Best just to stay in a hotel for a while, have a bit of a holiday travel around the island and then make a decision. You might be able to get an idea of living costs here:[url="http://www.nomad4ever.com/2008/03/17/cost-of-living-chart-bali-in-rupiah-dollar-and-euro/"]http://www.nomad4ever.com/2008/03/17/co ... -and-euro/[/url]
StuckInNYC
Thanks Spicyayam, I actually just discovered the nomad4ever blog and have read through most of the articles there - great site!
Anton
Calitobali wrote Personally, I live in Bali on around $500 USD per month[/quote]Muraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah sekaliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii :shock: Come on now Calitobali are you pulling my leg :P Whats your secret hihihihi how do you manage on makan warung ? Wow Calitobali thats interesting i would like to know more stories i bet you have a few good ones to tell maybe you could share with us how you live on this small sum please :mrgreen:
Jimbo
Anton sometimes you suprise me with your thinking. Many Indoniasian families live on much less than that. I own my own house but easily live well on a thousand dollars a month. Even if you rent a well furnished luxury house and have servants you can live like a king on 2-3 thousand dollars a month.500 will give you a modest living for 2 people. I really think that you need to spend some time in Indonesia
StuckInNYC
Hi Jimbo,Thanks for adding your voice to the thread. Do you have any examples of where I could find such a well-furnished luxury house that aligned with a budget of $2-3k/mo? I'm looking online from the US and I'm seeing crazy prizes for even modest villas ($100+ per NIGHT!). At that price I might as well just move into the Bali Hyatt! Clearly these sites are targeting the short-term tourist rather than the long-term resident. What about Health Insurance and health care costs in Indonesia? I plan to train Muay Thai while in Bali which, for those who don't know, is an aggressive form of full-contact kickboxing. Given this and the general sorts of outdoor adventuring I like to do, I obviously want to be sure that if I get injured I can get proper care and not break the bank.What about broadband internet access? I've heard it can be expensive (as much as $500/mo. for a quality dedicated line). How is the quality of lower priced options?I realize there are some articles on these topics but most are several years old and a lot can change in that time (especially regarding internet connections and the like).Overall, I'm feeling very optimistic about the quality of life we can expect on $3-$5k USD/mo. in Bali, given the replies in this thread. I don't exaggerate when I say that such an income would put you on the borderline of poverty in Manhattan. How is it that so much of the world hasn't figured out the insanity of this fact? Hopefully it stays that way :wink:
Markit
Ok, I ran into a guy here that swore up and down that he needed $3K/month to live well and I countered by asking why he didn't quit his $2K/month coke habit :lol: All joking aside you can live quite well on $1000/ month, really well on $2000 and damn near buy the place on $4000. I would suggest that you go to Ubud and rent a house (just up from the palace in the center) 3 bed, 2 bath daily maid and all mod cons for around $700/month. If you want you can get a cook/driver/handyman/security for another $150 - 200/month. In Ubud you are central in Bali and can take your time to investigate the rest of the island - everything is only about max 2 hours away.How do you get the house? Go to Ubud and look on the bulletin boards by the bookstore on the main road - lots advertised or look online in the Bali Advertiser. Or just drive through the countryside and keep an eye peeled for signs hanging outside villas - there are lots.Oh if you have any space left over in your luggage pack it full of wooden puzzles for the kids at Kupu Kupu charity. [url="http://www.yamp.com/kupukupu/history.htm"]http://www.yamp.com/kupukupu/history.htm[/url]
Anton
Jimbo wrote Anton sometimes you suprise me with your thinking[/quote]Well jimbo i am aware that many indonesians live on much less than the US500 mentioned though i havent met any expats living on that sum, as you said you own your own house and live on US1000 per month but calitobali even has to pay his rent out of the above sum thats what makes it so interesting :? I know you've travel indonesia well but some of us would like to read about these interesting stories so jimbo come on spill the beans and give us some insight on living on a shoe string :P Nantiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
gilbert de jong
Hi Anton..Calitobali wrote he lives in a "kos", renting a roomin a kos goes usualy per year and will cost between 100 - 200 USD per year. Warung food, is just as tasty and sometimes even better then the food you get in a restaurant, and lot's cheaper..for example 'Bakso' (sort of bouillon with small balls,egg and mie, add nasi putih will cost about 5000-5500 rupiah. Sate kambing (goat) with the Gule (soup) and Nasi putih, will be about 20.000 in a rumah Makan. An Icetea will set you back another 1500 rupiah. I have met some foreigners living on a tight budget, but to be honest with a 'little' bit more money in your pocket Bali is alot more fun. I am not saying calitobali is not having fun on the island!!I agree with Markit..Ubud is a good 'base' to explore the whole Island, and the place he mentioned seems to be a very good deal.Jimbo...are you now working again or not??Friendly greetings....Gilbert. PS: Welcome NYC :)
mimpimanis
(Gilbert's post went in while I was tryping up mine so I have duplicated some info)calitobali even has to pay his rent out of the above sum thats what makes it so interesting [/quote]Calitobali lives in a Kos. You can get rooms in a local Kos for as little as Rp300,000 per month. So his rent maybe doesnt eat up as much of his $500 as you would think.Cali east in warungs but you can eat even cheaper than that if you shop in the pasar and cook local food. Rp10,000 would buy us enough tempe, tofu and veggies for a day. I have had to live like that before. Now I dont have to and I chose not to but it can be done.
StuckInNYC
Markit,This is exactly the sort of advice I've been hoping to get - many thanks!What about broadband internet... are all major areas created equal in this department or is there a particular "sweetspot" where one can get good service at a reasonable rate?Ok, I ran into a guy here that swore up and down that he needed $3K/month to live well and I countered by asking why he didn't quit his $2K/month coke habit :lol: All joking aside you can live quite well on $1000/ month, really well on $2000 and damn near buy the place on $4000. I would suggest that you go to Ubud and rent a house (just up from the palace in the center) 3 bed, 2 bath daily maid and all mod cons for around $700/month. If you want you can get a cook/driver/handyman/security for another $150 - 200/month. In Ubud you are central in Bali and can take your time to investigate the rest of the island - everything is only about max 2 hours away.How do you get the house? Go to Ubud and look on the bulletin boards by the bookstore on the main road - lots advertised or look online in the Bali Advertiser. Or just drive through the countryside and keep an eye peeled for signs hanging outside villas - there are lots.Oh if you have any space left over in your luggage pack it full of wooden puzzles for the kids at Kupu Kupu charity. [url="http://www.yamp.com/kupukupu/history.htm"]http://www.yamp.com/kupukupu/history.htm[/url][/quote]
calitobali
To answer all the questions about how I live so cheaply, yes I live in a kos, but it's a very nice kos, brand new actually, I was the first tenant in this particular room. It is on the second floor, so there aren't people all over the place popping their heads in like a normal kos. It also includes an actual kitchen which is rare for a kos. The price is rp 800,000 per month, but the other unit's that come with AC are around rp 1.3 million because of the electricity. I just use a fan, it keeps me cool enough now that I have adjusted, and I'm never too hot when I'm out and about, which should answer your question from the other thread Anton.I eat at warungs for rp 5,000 - 10,000 a meal per person or my girlfriend cooks for me which is even cheaper as we shop at the local vegetable and fruit markets. Speaking Bahasa Indonesia is a MAJOR help in keeping your cost of living down, I am not often overcharged for anything anymore. Saya nawar sampai dapat harganya yang paling murah, tapi bukan di warung-warung, (tidak sopan begitu) cuma di tempat-tempat yang boleh nawar. Translation: I bargain until I get the cheapest price possible, but not in warungs (that's not polite), only in places that it's allowed.I tend to try to limit my spending to about rp 100,000 a day which includes food and it generally works out pretty well. Whatever I don't spend out of that 100,000 in a day I put aside for a couple nights of partying on the weekend etc.I will admit some months i do use more than the $500, but not much so. I originally came here to start up some business with a friend, but Bali just wasn't for him, so he went home, and I stayed since I fell in love with this place. Also, I'm only 21, so I would say I'm living fairly well. My kos is nicer than the place I was renting in California and about 8 times cheaper. Given the economy as well in America my $500 a month in Bali affords me a much nicer lifestyle than the $3,000 i was making in Los Angeles.Oh ya, Anton it is it really nessecary to drag out every Indonesain word that you sayyyyyyyyyyy?
Cory
Hey StuckInNyc,Wanted to offer some advise on your question regarding leads for cheap airfare...Funny, my husband and I also live in nyc, and are stuck at the moment too, lol. We are planning our move for May of 2010, mainly because our first child is due in December, and its also how a few other things work out for us to be able to move. We are going to Bali for 2 weeks in May, to do a bit more investigating, relax, and see our friends.Anyhoo, we would like to regularly come back to the US at least once a year which has lead me on the investigation of the most economical way to do that. Here is what I have come up with (I also work in the travel business) :) Cheapest airfare is generally on Korean Air from JFK and also has a decent normal connection in Seoul, Korea. Need to book "Q" class to get the cheapest fare, so if its not available on a certain day you can usually move your days around a bit and find the fare, which generally all year round goes between $1500 - $1600 (roundtrip including taxes) as low as $1350 during our winter months when it rains more in Bali. Sometimes I have seen Cathay Pacific and Malaysia have airfare for $1100 - $1200, generally would have a double connection. If for some reason the Koran Air isnt available, I found this route, more of a pain so only for desperate situations. This wouldnt be so bad if you didnt have to change airport in London.1. Fly AirAsia from Bali to Kuala Lumpur. Approx $35 - $50 when you get the best fare.2. Fly AirAsia from Kuala Lumpur to London (STN airport) Here you would have to transfer to Heathrow airport, frequent buses make the 90 - 120 min journey. Approx $250 - $350, again getting the lowest fare.3. Fly Heathrow to JFK. This fare can range anywhere from $450 - $750.So comes out to about $750 per way if you get all fares at their lowest point. This route has an advantage that Korean Air doesnt, if you dont know when your coming back, this can be booked as a one way fare. Korean needs to be booked roundtrip because one way will run around $1000. Lastly, if you wanted to guess your return date back to the US, then needed to change for some reason, they would charge $75 per ticket, plus any difference in fare.Lastly, sometimes China Air and Cathay Pacific have good one-way fares.Hope that helps and good luck to you, would be fun to get together and exchange ideas if you like. We work midtown east and live ues.Cory
spicyayam
I was surprised when I hit Indonesia (Medan) recently by how cheap everything was. I stayed in a kos and it was better than a lot of hotels I have stayed in. I got sick of eating out of the time and my girlfriend cooked for me also and it cost almost nothing. There's a big advantage staying out of tourist areas. If you come here just for a short time on holiday people will charge you whatever they think they can get out of you. I used to live in Tokyo which is also a very expensive place to live (maybe not like NYC) and I sometimes felt I was just working to pay for my rent. Then there was all my bills and the money I spent going out drinking to relieve the stress from working.I quit my job and started traveling in SE Asia and spent a fraction of what I used to spend in Japan. Even though I was making good money there, I was spending even more. By moving to Bali you can cut out of all of the clutter in your life: expensive mobile phones, pay tv, gym memberships, expensive entertainment etc etc and live a nice simpler life for a fraction of what you are used to and be better much better off for it.
Anton
Calitobali wrote Oh ya, Anton it is it really nessecary to drag out every Indonesain word that you sayyyyyyyyyyy?[/quote] Does'nt really matter either way to me but if you choose to read my posts then except its entirety i promise i wont force you to read them :P Gil wrote Warung food, is just as tasty and sometimes even better then the food you get in a restaurant,[/quote]Gil i agree warung food can be great though ive had a few bad experiences :roll: when i thought i was going to die :shock: but sure if your in a place long enough you will find the safe ones & that little menu you described is already making me hungry :wink: I was talking to this young backpacker in bali yrs ago and i mentioned how i bought a bottle of water from a warung and the water was in one of those sealed bottles but it turned out that the seal had been tampered with and refilled with i guess tap water anyway i got sick :cry: anyway this backpacker tells me he always drinks from the tap and has never been sick :? Mims wrote Calitobali lives in a Kos. You can get rooms in a local Kos for as little as Rp300,000 per month. So his rent maybe doesnt eat up as much of his $500 as you would think.[/quote]Mims i knew kostan were cheap but not that cheap and by the sounds of it calitobali has a real good deal,my future trip to jkt will see me living in a cost but prices start at Rp2'750'000 per month also with a kitchen & A/C etc and i consider that cheap. Cory wrote Fly AirAsia from Kuala Lumpur to London (STN airport) Here you would have to transfer to Heathrow airport, frequent buses make the 90 - 120 min journey. Approx $250 - $350, again getting the lowest fare.[/quote]Cory ive been looking at that fare to london but wondering if when i try to book say in 3 months time if i can rely on that price as i havent seen anything as cheap as that,ive got my fingers crossed that there will get some good deals over the next 3-4 months :mrgreen: Spicyayam wrote By moving to Bali you can cut out of all of the clutter in your life: expensive mobile phones, pay tv, gym memberships, expensive entertainment etc etc and live a nice simpler life for a fraction of what you are used to and be better much better off for it.[/quote]Totally agree on that one ditch the baggage and learn to live the old fashioned way ie minus the BS :idea: Nantiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii :mrgreen:
Jimbo
Anton.Living cheaply in Indonesia is easy if you change your mindset from being a westerner. What you need to do first is get out of staying in expensive hotels, learn some of the language and travel around the islands. Even Bali has its areas to visit that show the true Bali rather than the tourist areas.Experience the country and you will answer your own questions. Take a few risks without being stupid and you will love what you find. I never drink bottled water for example. Why? because no one drinks water from the tap. It is all boiled whereever I have been. You also need to get used to local bacteria and after a few days this will happen. Drinking pure water all the time lowers your resistance to such normal bacteria and you then get sick.As for cost and living on the cheap (I dont) look at previous posts on cost of living here of which there are many. You can live in a Kos or have a five bedroom villa with 5 servants and a swimming pool.3000 dollars a month will get you the latter if you shop around. What the original poster saw was holiday villas to rent. I have a 5 bedroom house but no pool or garden to speak of. It cost me 50,000 to buy and decorate and and 10,000 more to furnish to a reasonable standard. When I am there food, utilities, transport etc for up to 6 people costs me no more than 12-15 million Rps a month max.
