Ross
Hi guys:
I'll try again after one false start!
Greatly enjoy your feedback and opinions from afar.
Q: Thinking of buying land in Bali. What is the gang's opinion about the prospects for land investments: holding its value or collapsing? Crystal ball time please.
Q2: What about the political risks, adverse changes in:
1. Visa restrictions.
2. Foreseeable changes in foreign land ownership
3. Political/policy changes affecting expats, residency, etc. Becoming more or less liberal?
Q3: How foolproof do you think are the contracts/attorney arrangements which we will have to make with a local "partner". Any instances of things turning to custard on such contracts?
Q4. What are the risks of giving personal information on this forum. One wonders paranoically.
Q5: Any tips or leads as to private villas to rent in beaut. spots for a month-or-so's reconnaissance?
Have had a love affair with Bali since our first trip in 1977 to Kuta village. Reidrubber Restaurant was our fave hangout when there were about 6 to choose from, and losmen cost 400 rps per night. Cows pulling wooden ploughs in Kuta, no private cars, a few motor bikes, mushrooms for lunch, and everyone wnted to BUY our watch, jeans and transistor radio. Plus ca change.......Last trip in '96, losing touch.... Terima something...
Cheers,
Ross
Ross
[b]property outlook[/b]
Thanks Bert. you're a liitle beaut, mate.
By way of objective data; does any one know if there is a register of property sales history and valuation records in Bali as in NZ and Oz (terranet)?
If so, is it accessible on the Net?
Any other such info or research re price inflation or trends? Is there a Real Estate Institute of Bali? Private Valuers or consultancies?
Re EF site safety and privacy, I was referring more to the intentions of the readers, rather than the writer. Our purity is unquestionably immaculate and unimpugnable in every way. It's everyone else that worries us. Big Brother knows it all. Does no one else worry about this? Am I all alone in my neurosis? Pass the Prozac.
Cheerio
Ross
Bert Vierstra
[quote]Q: Thinking of buying land in Bali. What is the gang's opinion about the prospects for land investments: holding its value or collapsing? Crystal ball time please. [/quote]
Land prices in Bali always go up. Whatever the situation may be.
[quote]Q2: What about the political risks, adverse changes in:
1. Visa restrictions.
2. Foreseeable changes in foreign land ownership
3. Political/policy changes affecting expats, residency, etc. Becoming more or less liberal? [/quote]
1. Visa restrictions like the VOA may influence tourism, but I don't think they will change anything for longer term type of visas. 2. There are rumours about changing ownership laws for foreigners, but there is nothing really changed. There are some exemption rules for certain areas of Indonesia, where foreigeners can own appartements and such. 3. In the 2 years that I have been on Bali; I can live the life I want.
[quote]Q3: How foolproof do you think are the contracts/attorney arrangements which we will have to make with a local "partner". Any instances of things turning to custard on such contracts? [/quote]
As fool proof as your knowledge. Turn to a well known company with lots of expat business.
[quote]Q4. What are the risks of giving personal information on this forum. One wonders paranoically. [/quote]
Don't mention anything that would be illegal in Indonesia, or better don't do 8)
[quote]Q5: Any tips or leads as to private villas to rent in beaut. spots for a month-or-so's reconnaissance? [/quote]
Yes. 8)
Bert Vierstra
In every region there is an office, can't remember the name now (kadaster in dutch) where landownership is stored. To get information there its very handy to be or speak balinese. There is no digital version of it, thus no internet research. Friends who I work with have a special guy who does research on titles, ownership, sizes and such if we find something interesting. There is no independent real estate ageny, we are all cowboys. ;)
Private Valuers or consultancies?
Ask around. 10 times. Each of the 10 should not know you've asked someone else. Ask me.
If you think you've paid the right price have the prozac ready. No really, for evey part of Bali, there are 'going' prices, it takes some time to find out. Get as close to the real owners as you can, don't go for 'my nephew knows someone that knows'. If you don't use someone that does it for you it can be hard.
tapped on my pda, in Kuta, where we showed someone villa plans for land he bought in canggu.
Roy
As an alternative to land purchasing, have you considered long term leasing? From my own personal point of view, I am happy that it is very difficult for foreigners to “own” land in Bali. Under Indonesian law, only Indonesian citizens can have a freehold title (Hak Milik).
It’s bad enough that so much of Bali has been sold off to Jakarta based investors. Moreover, the Balinese themselves are becoming acutely aware that the more they “sell off” their land, the more they sell off their culture. Being married to a Balinese, and with three sons, I have a vested interest in not seeing this happen.
I’m not trying to moralize this topic, but I don’t want me, or my family to wake up in twenty years and see Bali turned into another Disney World.
Ross
[quote]
Bert:
Right on the nail again,matey. Someone said "90% preparation; 5% perspiration". He was clearly innumerate. I will work through a short list of the usual suspects, as per.
For us, the acronymicly illiterate, kindly elucidate "pda".
Roy:
Your comments greatly appreciated. We have been progressively horrified at the "development" of Bali since our first 3-month stay in 1977, and in particular the major buy-up of beachfront by outsiders during the late 80's. We loved those wooden ploughs in Kuta. Inappropriate development "kills the goose that laid the golden egg" (forgive the cliche). Tourist development seems to be intrinsically self-destructive over time. Since the 80's we have done nothing but seek to escape this development, and every visit we retreat further towards the fringes. Now with the near-saturation of the place with western culture, we wonder if there is any fringe left. More like a new hybrid with good and bad development like everywhere else, and the heightened need to zero in on, and find one's own special place. Disneyfication is a global thing, even here in the last outpost of the Pacific, with ostentatious "theme" houses of the rich and famous, (Tuscany, anyone? a little Provence, perhaps? Spanish? the "industrial' look?) obliterating the coastal landscapes. Perhaps wealth and taste are mutually exclusive. Big money looks for big things in which to express itself.
The remedies unfortunately lie in those demons, regulation and control; that means "planning rules", environmental impact assessments, or "Resource Management" law, to prevent the excesses of development. This necessary evil is however only possible in an honest totally non-corrupt society, or it opens up a bureacratic feeding frenzy. India and Bali would be fascinating cases, if such regulations were ever enforced! Money makes a strong argument. An industry of consultants sprouts up. Everyone becomes an expert. Everyone watches everyone else. Environmental vigilantism everywhere. That's where it's gotta go. Fasten your safety belts.
Decades of trying to integrate business with the indigenous culture, adapting and trading local/ethnic products to the home market have been fun (and sometimes profitable), but where did those export profits end up?Cultures move on, adapt and sadly dilute beyond recognition. My present fantasy is to again meld our interests with that of the local workforce to do something of authenticity and integrity. That's about as good as it gets.
Who let me loose on this thing.
What dya reckon, Py? Give us a blast.
Cheers
Ross.
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Roy
You wanna blast? OK, how about you answer my question...have YOU considered a lease?
Your post is more than interesting, it is extremely practical. It is also clear, in my mind anyway, that Bali is still only a dream for you.
I don't mean to "knock" on you in any way. But it does seem to me that you have missed the point.
The point is, Bali is not about us, rather the opposite. Bali is about Bali, and the ones that make it here understand this with utter clarity.
You wrote, "the remedies unfortunately lie in those demons, regulation and control; that means "planning rules", environmental impact assessments, or "Resource."
Bullshit! The remedies lie within the Balinese people, and quite frankly, for those like you who think otherwise, well, you are about to have a very rude awakening.
The recently completed elections have just proven, more than I could ever say, how the "winds of change" are upon us. Bali is not about to fall into the "global thing" nor is it about to be swallowed up by Disney or anyone else.
When you write:
"Cultures move on, adapt and sadly dilute beyond recognition," I can assure you that will never happen here on Bali.
I suggest a good read, it's the latest by Urs Ramseyer, titled BALI, LIVING IN TWO WORLDS. Give it a "go" and maybe your ideas and opinions may change. Any way, "good on you" for your thoughts, even though I personally felt them best for the mandi.
