ronb
I don't have any deep understanding of Hindu beliefs, but as a simple observer from the outside you can see differences.
More than a year ago we stayed in Kuala Lumpur near a Hindu temple and also some Indian restaurants and shops. I was struck by how different it was compared with Bali. The music was completely different - Indian meditation music - so we got some CDs. The temple was not so open and the activity within is busy, noisy, lots of candles and incense, and TV monitors. The photo gives an impression.
[attachment=0:vqwij5i1]KL-temple-DSC00519.jpg[/attachment:vqwij5i1]
chilli
I would really like to understand Hindu as a religion.
i have spent many months in Bali and have just recently returned from south India,
(Kerala) with all their beautiful Hindu temples and customs also.
I am on this forum for simple pleasure and sharing of other cultures.
Is anyone interested in discussing this topic of Hindu ?
for example; are they the same Hindu gods in India and Bali ?
what is the difference between Bali Hindu and India ?
gilbert de jong
Tony
I'm with you Chilli. I'd like to learn more also. I met a couple from India recently and I mentioned that I spend a lot of time in Bali and was a committed ceremony "junkie". I was surprised when they responded "Bali... that's where they do Hinduism right.
I am only the most novice of novices when it comes to Agama Hindu Dharma, the Balinese version. I do know that it differs greatly from the practices of India in that Agama Hindu is liberally sprinkled with buddhism, animism and ancestor worship. There are no prohibitions against eating animals except within the priest castes.
There is an interesting online forum on the subject, though the most recent activity seems to have been a year ago. You might check it out here:
http://www.siddha.com.my/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000031.html
Hoping someone more knowledgeable will also chime in on this one.
dug
Well thanks to the U.S.A. to pressure the Colonial Powers give up their 'possessions' after WWII. Although many European powers where reluctant to give up their 'money makers' after the war,the choice was a good one. We like that about the U.S.A., although our continued quest to 'save the world' is not MY way of going about; the Marshall Plan was by and large a good plan!
Balinese Hindu is a amalgamation of Hindu,Buddhism and Animism.Mostly developed after the the defeat and flight of the Majapahit empire from Java to Bali in the 15th century.
chilli
I found this doing a history search on the net;
Bali is a republic located in the south-central portion of "Nusantara" (the Malayan Archipelago). This thus also situates it in insular Southeast Asia. In the late 1800s, it was eyed by the Netherish, who already had control of the islands of Sumatra and Java. The Balinese, seeing this as a threat, sent ambassadors to India to gain their protection. India was wary of starting trouble with the Netherish, but eventually it agreed to establish a protectorate over Bali. This gave India more sway over the Nusantara region, which was a priority if it wanted to assure access not only to Macronesia, but to Pacha, with which Indian trade was burgeoning at the time. India would soon sign a treaty with Netherland, expressly giving Netherish ships access to Bali's ports under Indian control, and promising peace between the nations. In 1948, soon after the Pan-Global War and the independence of the neighboring Netherish islands, Bali was given its independence.
Also;
That Balinese do not have statues of the God Shiva on their temples ????? (do they?)
and are not vegetarians like Indian Hindu.
chilli
thanks for all the links,
gilbert de jong
Hi chilli,
a couple of days ago I did a search on this forum, I don't know exactly what the thread headline was, but there was some interesting reading about the Hindu religion.
There(on that thread), was a discussion about the origines of the Bali Hinduism and when Hinduism found it's way to Bali. If I remember right... to the end of that thread it was a heated discussion between two members who are not around anymore. There was a member who said Hinduism founds it way to Bali some 2000/3000 years ago, and the other member said it found it's way to Bali in the 10 or 11 century AD. But before it turned into a "no I am right---No I am right" discussion, there was some good stuff. I'll try to find it again and will post a link to it later, If I can find it again, hihihihi.
I have read some books about the Bali history, but I have never read that Bali ports were under Indian control. What I've read is that the dutch (VOC) came over from Java I think, and there were some sea to sea battles between Dutch and brittish ships, between Dutch and French ships. The brits and french "lost" those skirmishes. Actually the Brittish guy, who the Dutch ran out of Indonesia founded the free-trade port Singapore back then. Where the french went I have no clue???
As for the Independence of Indonesia "given" to them by the Dutch, Let me say they(R.I.) got their Independence, because the Dutch government was blackmailed by the US. IWhat I mean by blackmailed is...if the Dutch didn't give Indonesia their Independence, NL wouldn't have gotten the Needed Marshall-help to rebuild NL after WW2. Also the date, 17 august 1945 is a date which can be debated..Since the dutch army sent 150.000 troops in the years '47 and '48 to the Indonesia. The Dutch considered this as in Internal dispute, because they saw Indonesia still their property/jurisdiction. The rest of the world didn't agree with that vision, or action that the Dutch took. Again the dutch government was pressured mainly by the US, to give up their colonies. The date they did this was 27 December 1949.
But not till the 50's the country was somewhat settled. NL was still present in the area, till 1962 when they(the Dutch) finally gave up New-Guinnea.
Sorry for the long story.and the offtopic, hihihi.
Okidoki, I'm going to search the archives now...for that link.
friendly greetings.......Gilbert.
gilbert de jong
Hi dug,
I totally agree with that the Marshall plan was a good plan, and helped rebuild many country's after WW2. I don't agree with your opinion, that it was a good choice to pressure some of the colonial powers to give up "what you call, moneymakers". Of course the dutch were somewhat robbers of natural resources in Indonesia, and wiped out many Indonesians. But they also brought alot of good things over. And we will never know...but I think the infrastracture like roads , schools, hospitals would be in better shape under the Dutch, as it is now. This is totlly off-topic so I will return to the topic Balinese Hinduism and understanding it.
I don't understand it all,hihihi. But I am trying to learn about it. It's quite challenging, the castes, the temples, the so many different ceremonies....
Dug you're right about the 15th century retreat of Majahapit to Bali, and that was the last and biggest wave of three waves of people coming to Bali from Java.
friendly greetings......Gilbert.
tintin
Two years ago, I had found on the Web the Ph.D. thesis of Scott A. Johnsen, titled
From the Royal House to Nation: The Construction of Hinduism and Balinese Ethnicity in Indonesia. A monumental work of about 500 pages, I had kept it in my favorites. Unfortunately, the link is no longer valid.
Hopefully, his thesis will be published in book form. At present it can be only be obtained through Proquest Digital Dissertations, which is available through most University libraries.
You can get an idea of what’s it all about by logging on
http://blog.baliwww.com/religion-and-environment-conservation-in-bali/1077/
By the way, this website is a gold mine of excellent articles about Agama Bali and the Balinese society.
