Roy
[quote]"Well if you accept the premise that people are people the world over and that people from some places are more or less competitive than people from another place then some other factor(s) must be in play."[/quote]
I, for one, and the noted expatriate British author and very close friend, Victor Mason, being another, do accept your premise, often heard by many who have yet to embrace Balinese ways.
As far as weather is concerned...while it may effect westerners in their ability to cope, it has no associative impact on the Balinese whatsoever
Roy
Opps :oops:
[quote]"I, for one, and the noted expatriate British author and very close friend, Victor Mason, being another, do accept your premise, often heard by many who have yet to embrace Balinese ways. "[/quote]
This should read:
"I, for one, and the noted expatriate British author and very close friend, Victor Mason, being another, do NOT accept your premise, often heard by many who have yet to embrace Balinese ways. "
Kadek
Someone said that Balinese are not very competitive at all and there will never be a Balinese Olympic Champion!
So now I am curious as to what other opinions are out there with regards to this topic. As from my observation, if we compare Balinese against Westerners (for lack of a better word), Balinese are certainly not as competitive whereas Western people (like in Australia) are very competitive (and sometimes can be about winning at all cost!).
I noticed that from a very young age, children here are gear to adopt the concept of competition - best illustrated in sports. I think sport best illustrates this culture of winners and losers.
So if you have observations and or experiences relevant to this topic, please do write.
Maybe also the pros and cons of it? How do you see Balinese fairing in terms of competitiveness? And in the face of global competitiveness, how do you see the lack of spirit of competitiveness amongst Balinese (if you think it is well founded) will effect the way they deal with being sustainable into the future?
Thanks
Kadek
Roy
In sport, I find the Balinese to not only be competitive, but also to be superb athletes. In our village of Bunutan, we built three years ago a marvelous in ground, Roman style amphitheater for volleyball and the national sport of Indonesia...badminton. When games are in progress, the whole area in and out of the stadium is full to capacity, and almost entirely by Balinese. It is simply marvelous to experience the games in our village with other villages, and over time, the funds earned from this sports arena has taken much of the pressure off of our citizens when pura building, repair, school projects, or other banjar related issues requiring money come to roost.
Personally Kadek, I don’t worry about the sustainability of the Balinese in the future...not one bit. My wife Eri, and her entire family don’t worry about that either.
My comments on competitiveness being said, in so far as the Balinese are concerned with sport, I do not see, nor ever have, competitiveness in their life. As the years tick by, for me, I grow more and more complacent and accepting of the world around me, and less, and less a compelling feeling to change anything. As you Kadek, and my wife understand, balance is everything in Bali. I’m still trying to learn that....many years into my studies.
DCC
Kadek, I think you have expand that question of global competition (that is the issue here, yes?) in terms of competing for what; global manufacturing and service jobs? Competitive or not, Bali will never be a significant player owing to matters of population size and logistics. The challenge for the Balinese is their own changing economy - how to adjust away a from self-sufficient agri lifestyle? That's a big and serious question for many peoples around the globe and one for which there are NO simple answers.....
Roy
The heat thing just doesn’t bother me, but then again we live in Ubud near the Ayung River so the climate here is very pleasant. My wife complains more often about being cold than hot. At night, we generally sleep with a quilt. Down south, for sure, is a lot hotter and air conditioning is a must.
Ever notice the Balinese running around on their motor bikes with long sleeved jackets or coats when the tourists are in shorts and tee shirts? Funny too, it seems the Balinese never break a sweat.
On the competitive thing, I should have elaborated more. What I had on my mind about that issue, is that unlike in the West, in particular the New York scene that I left years ago, everyone lived as though they were in a continuous and perpetual horse race. “Keeping up with the Jones” was a way of life and all too often a man was judged based solely on his house, car(s), job position and the private clubs he held membership. While we all know some Balinese who are seriously into the material aspects of worldly living, I find the majority of the Balinese I know to be happy with what they need and not concentrate their time or thinking in pursuit of things they can do without.
FreoGirl
[quote]I can't imagine this ever happening in a society like Bali no matter how "private" you lived your life.[/quote]
I have to agree with that one. The concept of privacy is quite different in Bali - I remember years ago staying with a Balinese family and villagers coming right up to the windows of the house and peering in at me all day.
If that was Australia they would have been arrested.
Jimbo
[quote] As the years tick by, for me, I grow more and more complacent and accepting of the world around me[/quote]
Not really following the substance of this thread but this line from Roy gave me a smile :-)
Roy my old friend if you ever grow complacent I believe you will be dead (on at least the subject of Bali)
As for the thread my opinion is that we are competive in order to survive and evolve and improve. For me being competitive is not the problem. How you behave if you loose is. For some it is the end of the world. I have always tried to teach my children that loosing is just an opportunity to improve.
SamD
[b]Re: RE: Balinese & Competitivenes[/b]
[quote]True. It's all very well not wanting to "keep up with the Jones' " but one would need a lot of rice to pay for a heart bypass.[/quote]
Reading a story in Brisbane's Courier Mail today you might be forgiven for assuming that many Australians don't need a "heart bypass" - their hearts are well and truly bypassed already. The story concerns a man who was found dead in his house after a period of two years. He had lived in the same street for 30 years and nobody thought to check when mail piled up, the grass and weeds started growing around his house and the painted weatherboards started peeling. His neighbours said he was a very private person.
I can't imagine this ever happening in a society like Bali no matter how "private" you lived your life.
Food for thought anyway.
Roy
[quote]"Roy my old friend if you ever grow complacent I believe you will be dead (on at least the subject of Bali)" [/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol: Take my word for it Jimbo, you didn't know me in my New York City days. :shock: :shock:
Roy
Well "said" Gazer! I couldn't agree with you more, nor do I think the Balinese worry much at all about competing in the world economy.
Gazer
Singapore too is in the tropics and much hotter than most parts of Bali. Yet for many years, Singapore came in among the top 3 in the IMD World Competitivenes scoreboard. There is no simple answer.
I would think Bali has its own form of competitiveness. It had a thriving tourism industry (at least until terrorism struck) and therefore held its competitiveness without having to try as hard as Singapore and other tourism-dependent economies did. Few, if anybody, would vote to retire in Singapore but many as I understand would want to retire in Bali if they could. Mindless competition and the drive to be competitive is soul destroying and soulless. Woe be the day when Bali has to be like Singapore or HongKong to be competitive.
I think Bali is blessed with a graceful people (which I hope will always be) and an attractive culture which makes it attractive as a tourist destination without even trying. Given a chance, I will come to live in Bali than to be in London, Hong Kong, Singapore, New York, Shanghai, anyday.
rafalution
[b]Re: RE: Balinese & Competitivenes[/b]
[quote=Roy]
Ever notice the Balinese running around on their motor bikes with long sleeved jackets or coats when the tourists are in shorts and tee shirts? Funny too, it seems the Balinese never break a sweat.
[/quote]
I always thougt that was because they didn't want a sun tan
Gazer
[b]Re: RE: Balinese & Competitivenes[/b]
If one is posting from Singapore they of course had better be careful what they say. [quote]
No comment :roll: [/quote]
froggy
I found the locals to be competitive, the differece with them , it appears there are no losers...
rafalution
[b]Re: RE: Balinese & Competitivenes[/b]
[quote=Allan]Well if you accept the premise that people are people the world over and that people from some places are more or less competitive than people from another place then some other factor(s) must be in play.
My view is the weather plays a large part in determining the competitiveness of people which also translates into varying economic output, academic achievement etc.
I have tried on various ocassions to sit down and do software analysis and design work in tropical climates and I find it almost impossible. The heat and humidity is just too much. Of course there's a/c but for some reason it doesn't help me. In a cooler climate I can sometime work for 24 hours straight.
I wonder if that's the reason countries like Denmark have such a high standard of living without the benefit of huge amounts of natural resources. Is it because people spend more time inside on intellectually based pursuits?
That is one of the things I think when I think about living in Bali.[/quote]
Have you read Guns, germs and steel? it's the most convincing argument I have heard for the wealth and poverty of nations.
Roy
[quote]"I always thougt that was because they didn't want a sun tan"[/quote]
:lol: :lol: :lol: For that, it's long sleeved shirts. :shock:
[quote]"I found the locals to be competitive, the differece with them , it appears there are no losers..."[/quote]
Then again, one could ask the question, when competing on their own turf with westerners, why should the Balinese come up short? After all, Bali belongs to the Balinese and no matter how many years we non Balinese live here, (or how many Balinese wive's we have :) ) in reality, we are still guests.
DCC
Gazer - well put!
Raf - great book, in particular it's objectivity.
Gazer
Yes thanks for pointing out Guns, Germs & Steel, Raf. I've had a look at its contents and I am sure it will be a great read. :)
Kadek
Thanks guys for all your replies. It is interesting for me to read them.
DCC wrote:
[quote] Kadek, I think you have expand that question of global competition (that is the issue here, yes?) in terms of competing for what; global manufacturing and service jobs? Competitive or not, Bali will never be a significant player owing to matters of population size and logistics. The challenge for the Balinese is their own changing economy - how to adjust away a from self-sufficient agri lifestyle? That's a big and serious question for many peoples around the globe and one for which there are NO simple answers..... [/quote]
Well I was firstly curious what people have to say on this topic. As I know many aspects of Balinese life are competitive, but maybe it doesn’t come across as such to an observer. Some aspects can certainly be very competitive (maybe not as upfront as in the western society, but nevertheless it is there). So I just needed to find different opinions.
Roy Wrote:
[quote] Personally Kadek, I don’t worry about the sustainability of the Balinese in the future...not one bit. My wife Eri, and her entire family don’t worry about that either. [/quote]
Well, I have just been in a two days Summit on Sustainability. Although this is a different kind of sustainability, but I do think that Balinese should start to consider what will be in its best interest and how will it cope with the changing world. I don’t agree that Balinese should not worry about being sustainable into the future. As a whole, the Balinese society is faced with many changing global pressures, deteriorating environment and also diminishing opportunities for livelihood dependent on tourism.
I think that is enough reasons to worry! As for solutions, I haven’t thought of this myself.
I believe that the current way is not sustainable!! I guess in here I am now thinking more in terms of competition globally.
And maybe as DCC said, Bali will never (or it will take a very very long time to achieve) a standard of international competitiveness – well at least we could try for a few things???
But anyway, this is a whole of different discussion.
Allan Wrote:
[quote] My view is the weather plays a large part in determining the competitiveness of people which also translates into varying economic output, academic achievement etc. [/quote]
Jimbo Wrote:
[quote] As for the thread my opinion is that we are competitive in order to survive and evolve and improve. For me being competitive is not the problem. [/quote]
I also agree with this reasoning, I think that because Bali has an almost all year good weather, it hasn’t necessitated the need to be as inventive for ensuring survival. In contrast, those that are confronted with hasher weather conditions have to be very creative and inventive to survive in that environment and perhaps drive a more competitive trait in these people??
Allan wrote:
[quote] Well weather can and does have a significant impact on economic activity and therefore ability to compete. I must have been dreaming on the many occasions that Balinese friends have complained to me that it's too hot. They must have been from Java.[/quote]
I must say that when I was in Bali last time, I was perspiring and feeling hot and bothered (even though where I am now is not any cooler only drier). I even got a bad sun-burnt. So now I can sympathize with you who easily get sun-burnt. My skin did peel off and although not very much, it was not a nice thing.
Roy wrote:
[quote] Ever notice the Balinese running around on their motor bikes with long sleeved jackets or coats when the tourists are in shorts and tee shirts? Funny too, it seems the Balinese never break a sweat. [/quote]
This is to prevent being “Masuk Angin” and I guess it is good sun safe practices – at least you will not suffer sun burnt.
[quote] Then again, one could ask the question, when competing on their own turf with westerners, why should the Balinese come up short? After all, Bali belongs to the Balinese … and in reality, we are still guests. [/quote]
Well many things in Bali are not control by Balinese. There are many western and other Indonesian that seem to take charge in some aspects of Bali – like tourism development. Many Balinese do work in the tourism industries, but how many actually hold the top management and control position? If Balinese labour have been replaced by some outer islands labour in the lower skills area but are as yet able to be competitive for the high management position, would you say Bali is still control by Balinese?
Best Regards
Kadek
