Roy
[quote]You might be surprised to hear this, but so many Balinese will only tell you what they think you need to know to satisfy your curiosity and not necessarily tell you the whole story of a situation. Some don’t want to bother/worry you with all the details. [/quote]
Well put Kadek, and a point I have tried to stress here on this forum over and over.
So many posters just don’t “get it” because they lack this intimate information that is only acquired by either being Balinese, or over many years, closely living with Balinese. And, the real fact is, unless a westerner lives this, they will never understand.
Many thanks also for clearing up the confusion regarding jealousy.... “so in short, jealousy exists, be they are rich or poor.”
It’s great to have you back posting with your own unique insight as a Balinese. I wish I could get Eri to do the same!
balimudder
I enjoyed your discussion on jealousy, Kadek. Komang doesn't speak English and my Indonesian is very basic so sometimes there are some misunderstandings. Plus she doesn't like to "hang out her dirty laundry" so I have to drag out what is bothering her.
I have learned to keep my comments to myself when it comes to making comments about Bali and some of the customs that seem strange to a Westerner. After all, I am a guest here and haven't the right to critisize.
Komang is starting to realize where I am coming from and I see where she is coming from. She is worse off because she is caught in the middle. And of course the kids haven't a clue of what is going on.
Thanks again, Kadek, for a well thought out discussion.
Kadek
It was interesting to follow the Adoption thread and I was surprised to find it is now locked. I guess I should have posted a reply sooner. Anyhow, as I wanted to just add a couple of points to these issues of Balinese adoption and jealousy. So I have started this new thread.
I haven’t thought that I would have anything to contribute here, but perhaps I should say something regarding this “sponsorship creating jealousy situation” (from my experience and observation).
First of all, let me say this, humans are humans, and jealousy is one trait (amongst others) that we all have to a certain degree at some stage. If anybody thinks he/she is immune from it, then she/he must be a saint!
Or maybe in some more “affluent societies”, jealousy is no longer about pettiness and squabbles about little “basic” things????
As a Balinese and as someone who have benefited from the privilege of receiving sponsored education myself, I have experienced this jealousy, resentment and gossip first hand, both directly and indirectly.
Anyway, before I am straying too far from the main reason of this thread, I shall stop there for now. And perhaps I will later post another posting regarding adoption amongst Balinese as Roy has mentioned briefly.
So, is there jealousy amongst Balinese? I say, definitely there is and “intra-village” jealousy is perhaps best illustrated by the rivalries (sometimes it can be intense!) amongst neighbouring villages (and sometimes amongst Tempekan (s) (tempekan is a section that constitute a Banjar. It is often made up of a couple dozens of family compounds or a whole street). Maybe some would say that this rivalry is just normal competition, but if it resulted in intra-village feud, would you still consider it a healthy competition?
But, like it or not, jealousy certainly do occurs within Balinese families. Therefore, it is possible and maybe likely that as a result of an adoption/sponsorship of a single child from a large extended family, jealousy and resentment will occur amongst the other “unfortunate” members of the family.
I guess when you have the best and honourable intention to help a child for a better live, you would expect that the rest of the people around would have the same view as you and be in support. It would be unimaginable how it could back fire and cause family jealousy and perhaps feud.
In cases like Bali where family and relatives are living (often on each other’s noses, it is a tricky business to balance everything and maintain extended family harmony! Family feuds do occur, they can be subtle and they can be intense that everyone in the village will know about them and the Banjar might even have to intervene and put the feuding parties on a reconciliation path again. Unless you are part of the family, you will likely to not be aware of this happening.
Maybe some people will question why I say all these negative things. The answer is simple. Bali and Balinese are not perfect and this is just part of life over there. It is not all rosy. Although, not all is doom and gloom and some people are lucky to have a perfect close knit family relationship.
So back to the case of adoption and child sponsorship, whether you like it or not and with you knowing and being aware of it or not, in my opinion there will be a certain degree of jealousy and resentment from other people.
Why would it have the potential to create jealousy? Many reasons: selfishness, greed, lack of understanding, status, and as well similar circumstances/living standards.
In case of family:
If they are of relatives and you are married into that family, then sponsoring one child from a cousin, brother or sister of your partner will cause the other relatives (brothers, sisters, cousins) to ask why is that particular child chosen and not another (why his/her child and not mine type of thing)? [b] Selfishness and Greed! [/b]
In another way of describing it, every parent wants the best for their child. In the prospect of a child from one family to have a better chance in education etc, of course will make the other relatives wanting their child to have the same chance as the child you are sponsoring. [b] Selfishness and similar circumstances/living standards! [/b]
Or, they see you as someone who can grant wishes (if you have always provided support and money or whatever to the family – with no question asked). The family became dependent on your support for their livelihood and overtime, it could be that they expect that it will always be like that. So when you start to give focus to one child, they expect the same for the others and if not granted, the “unfortunate” relatives will resent the family member you are helping. [b] Lack of Understanding! [/b]
In case of other people in the village:
1. If the family (parents) of your sponsored child is known as a good family, hard working but still they can’t help themselves out of poverty, then I think the villagers will be happy that the family receive a much needed help. And they will not resent this help.
2. On the other hand, if the parents of your sponsored child are not hard working, have problems with gambling, etc. the villagers will view the help (although intended as a help for the child) as an easy way out for the parents, who haven’t given their all to improve the family living condition and perhaps have caused the misery in the first place.
So in short, jealousy exists, be they are rich or poor. However, as an outsider, you will not necessarily be aware of this jealousy and resentment. People will not necessarily tell you about them. Unless you live within/close in the village and best of all fully understand the gossips that are going around the village, you might think everything is perfect!
You might be surprised to hear this, but so many Balinese will only tell you what they think you need to know to satisfy your curiosity and not necessarily tell you the whole story of a situation. Some don’t want to bother/worry you with all the details.
Well, I might have added more confusion now:?: :oops:
Regards
Kadek
Kadek
[b]Re: RE: Adoption Part 2[/b]
[quote=balimudder] Komang doesn't speak English and my Indonesian is very basic so sometimes there are some misunderstandings. Plus she doesn't like to "hang out her dirty laundry" so I have to drag out what is bothering her.
She is worse off because she is caught in the middle. And of course the kids haven't a clue of what is going on. [/quote]
Yes indeed it is really hard to convey our thoughts when there is constraint due to differences of language. Misunderstandings occur when people speak the same language, so it is to be expected I guess. And I do understand this being a non-native English speaker in an English speaking country!!!
[quote] I have learned to keep my comments to myself when it comes to making comments about Bali and some of the customs that seem strange to a Westerner. After all, I am a guest here and haven't the right to criticize. [/quote]
Criticizing without first having the understanding behind why and what the custom is all about is indeed not a good thing to do. But, I don't see why you should refrain all together from inquiring and or questioning some aspects of things that you don't understand. Just keep an open mind, never assume or draw conclusion based on assumption and speculation!! It might not be as strange or as odd as you first thought. When you inquire, you have shown an interest and in my opinion it is a good thing, and it will also benefit you being explained the meanings, values and or reasons behind certain practices. It will allow you to see the perspective from the point of view of the other culture!
Regards
Kadek
