Chris A
My driver mentioned this to me yesterday and I just saw this article in the rag The Bali Sun. [URL='https://thebalisun.com/bali-community-comes-together-to-prevent-mass-culling-of-local-dogs/']Dog Culling Article[/URL]First, I'd like to mention that I am by no means a dog hater and in-fact own a dog and have had dogs throughout life. I think the initiative to address the out of control dog issue is warranted and am disappointed to see the initiative derailed by a bunch of do-gooders. Bali has a load of things that need to be fixed with this being one of them. Even if half were culled, there would still be too many. Fire away!!!
Markit
My lady wife and I have 7 dogs that live with us at home, yes 7! This was never intended and like the article I have always had a dog in my life and find them some of the best people I know. We came over 16 years ago with a small Border terrier whose breed originated on the Scottish border. Well that went about as well as you would expect - the miserable beast had an awful year of illnesses, parasites and heat until it finally had to be put out of its misery (which the bloody vet insisted was not allowed in his religion). Since then we've gone through 35 various animals from civet cats to real cats on to multiple dogs, all of which died from various causes such as illness, snake bite, run over, etc, etc. All of these were either put secretly over out wall or dragged their pestilential, injured and usually starving bodies up to our gates where the only option for my wife was to take them in and nurse them back to loud, barking, bouncing and dirty good health. I would not have been so merciful as I'm sure you can imagine...Should they be culled? No, but, like the trash problem, the natives must be made aware they have a responsibility to act like adults and take care of their animals and have them sterilized or care for the puppies that come along and not just put them in a plastic bag and throw them in the nearest subak or OVER MY BLOODY WALL. PS my long suffering lady wife also feeds and medicates (meals on wheels) a running number, at the mo - 5, of strays on the beach. PPS most of the strays are abandoned by their owners because they develop the horrible fur loss parasite scabies which is so easily cured with the couple of days treatment with ivermectin (remember the pandemic, anyone?). So if you see a local's dog with this ugly disease please help them with a few rupes worth of tablets and the poor beast won't end up OVER MY BLOODY WALL!
Balifrog
Yep, like in many places (Thailand is another one) this is a problem that needs to be attended to.I completely disagree with do-gooders feeding stray dogs on the beach !Another thing is that dogs entering open air restaurants tends to shock a lot of tourist, not even speaking about domestic muslim visitors.So yes, culling once or twice a year is the way to go for me.I remember in the 70's when I was in Papeete (Tahiti) the situation was out of control. Walking in the port or on the beach at night was really dangerous, because some of the bastard were very agressive.Same as here some do-gooders (and Green Peace lovers) were crying about it.When the French authorities had enough of it they told the army to take care of it.Problem solved in less than a month.And no, we didn't machinegun them....I am not a dog lover, but have nothing against them if under control. I have 3 cats, their mentality is way closer to mine.
Nyamprut
Cull away! I'm a dog lover buy one of the few positives the Muslim islands have over Bali is the lack of these miserable strays menacing daily life. Even up my way here in Singaraja they seem to be running rampant in recent times when previously they were hardly noticable. They seem to have gotten out of control since the crackdown on sate anjing. Surely a couple of months of amnesty/advertising by the provincial government and the issue of some form of collar or tag indicating an 'owned' animal prior to a humane cull would be a great step forward. These animals have a miserable life and aren't real fun to live with, either.
Chris A
My lady wife and I have 7 dogs that live with us at home, yes 7! This was never intended and like the article I have always had a dog in my life and find them some of the best people I know. We came over 16 years ago with a small Border terrier whose breed originated on the Scottish border. Well that went about as well as you would expect - the miserable beast had an awful year of illnesses, parasites and heat until it finally had to be put out of its misery (which the bloody vet insisted was not allowed in his religion). Since then we've gone through 35 various animals from civet cats to real cats on to multiple dogs, all of which died from various causes such as illness, snake bite, run over, etc, etc. All of these were either put secretly over out wall or dragged their pestilential, injured and usually starving bodies up to our gates where the only option for my wife was to take them in and nurse them back to loud, barking, bouncing and dirty good health. I would not have been so merciful as I'm sure you can imagine...Should they be culled? No, but, like the trash problem, the natives must be made aware they have a responsibility to act like adults and take care of their animals and have them sterilized or care for the puppies that come along and not just put them in a plastic bag and throw them in the nearest subak or OVER MY BLOODY WALL.PS my long suffering lady wife also feeds and medicates (meals on wheels) a running number, at the mo - 5, of strays on the beach.PPS most of the strays are abandoned by their owners because they develop the horrible fur loss parasite scabies which is so easily cured with the couple of days treatment with ivermectin (remember the pandemic, anyone?). So if you see a local's dog with this ugly disease please help them with a few rupes worth of tablets and the poor beast won't end up OVER MY BLOODY WALL![/QUOTE]It's admirable that you have taken care of and are taking care of the dogs and cats that have been shown up or have been dropped off at your place. It would be hard to turn them away, however if the population was better controlled, the need to do so would be reduced. A lot of energy and money is expended on the care of the strays. I think people do it for a variety of reasons with most of the reasons honorable and well intentioned, however if sterilization and rabies vaccinations are not part of the equation, the practice is just perpetuating and exacerbating the problem. Just something to think about.... If the dog problem was reduced by half, maybe some of the people could / would redirect their energy toward their human counterparts that are in need. I have no experience with the orphanages here but do with the old folks homes - Panti Jompo, both in the North and in Balikpapan where I lived at one time. In a society like here in Indonesia, think about the circumstances that lead to an elderly person ending up in a government sponsored old folks home and think about the conditions. It's pretty desperate in most cases.Obviously, how one chooses to help out the orphans or old folks needs to be considered carefully to ensure the recipients are getting the full benefit and there is no skimming or scamming along the way. Again, just something to think about....It's a damn shame, but I do believe that a well reasoned and coordinated culling of dogs is warranted. Desperate times require desperate measures.
harryopal1
It's admirable that you have taken care of and are taking care of the dogs and cats that have been shown up or have been dropped off at your place. It would be hard to turn them away, however if the population was better controlled, the need to do so would be reduced.A lot of energy and money is expended on the care of the strays. I think people do it for a variety of reasons with most of the reasons honorable and well intentioned, however if sterilization and rabies vaccinations are not part of the equation, the practice is just perpetuating and exacerbating the problem.Just something to think about.... If the dog problem was reduced by half, maybe some of the people could / would redirect their energy toward their human counterparts that are in need. I have no experience with the orphanages here but do with the old folks homes - Panti Jompo, both in the North and in Balikpapan where I lived at one time. In a society like here in Indonesia, think about the circumstances that lead to an elderly person ending up in a government sponsored old folks home and think about the conditions. It's pretty desperate in most cases.Obviously, how one chooses to help out the orphans or old folks needs to be considered carefully to ensure the recipients are getting the full benefit and there is no skimming or scamming along the way. Again, just something to think about....It's a damn shame, but I do believe that a well reasoned and coordinated culling of dogs is warranted. Desperate times require desperate measures.[/QUOTE]I don't disagree with your arguments but it seems that, while neglected, street dogs tend to be territorial and serve as watchdogs in many areas Often residents provide scraps as a kind of reward even if they do not really take much interest in the health of these animals. The security service is I suppose why there may be general resistance to culling. Any culling would have to coincide with a public education program, door to door leaflets, and a rabies campaign. Leaflets explaining the issues along with an opportunity on the leaflet to indicate acceptance and which might be then left at front gates for retrieval might enable a showing of support that would deter those who would otherwise resist. Community acceptance of culling is essential if such a program were to be introduced.
Markit
Ok, from your answers I can see there's a huge lack of knowledge about our 4 legged friends: 1) there are many sterilization and rabies clinics at moving points around the island BUT, as usual, there seems to be some Indonesian issues with letting anyone know before hand. We've had 2 in the last several months here in Karangasem and we have another one tomorrow. 2) feeding scraps only leads to slow and painful starvation, if you occasionally enjoy some time on the beaches it's much better to have friendly, well fed strays around you than scavenging, pestilential hordes of famished, feral hounds. 3) "I am not a dog lover, but have nothing against them if under control. I have 3 cats, their mentality is way closer to mine." I do so love it when happy cats go and shit and piss on their owners beds as a declaration of their undying love. Not to mention the hiding of choice part of some harmless prey the "domesticated" cats choose to give to their subjects (cat owners). In all honesty if culling worked I would be for it too but it simply is a very short term solution - and that's why there are stray dogs everywhere in the world. If there's one thing all governments have and thrill to use it's guns and bullets.
Chris A
Ok, from your answers I can see there's a huge lack of knowledge about our 4 legged friends:1) there are many sterilization and rabies clinics at moving points around the island BUT, as usual, there seems to be some Indonesian issues with letting anyone know before hand. We've had 2 in the last several months here in Karangasem and we have another one tomorrow.2) feeding scraps only leads to slow and painful starvation, if you occasionally enjoy some time on the beaches it's much better to have friendly, well fed strays around you than scavenging, pestilential hordes of famished, feral hounds.3) "I am not a dog lover, but have nothing against them if under control. I have 3 cats, their mentality is way closer to mine." I do so love it when happy cats go and shit and piss on their owners beds as a declaration of their undying love. Not to mention the hiding of choice part of some harmless prey the "domesticated" cats choose to give to their subjects (cat owners).In all honesty if culling worked I would be for it too but it simply is a very short term solution - and that's why there are stray dogs everywhere in the world.If there's one thing all governments have and thrill to use it's guns and bullets.[/QUOTE]Think of all of the chronic issues (aka problems) Bali has and the difficulty to fix the problems. Sometimes what is needed is to be able to chalk up a win or two to show that a glaring and lingering problem can be fixed. It seems to me that addressing the dog issue (problem) might be a place to start. In relative terms, a low cost compared to trying to tackle the sampah or traffic problems. Perhaps putting some of the revenue generated by the tourist tax to work by offering a bounty on strays might be a place to start. Kind of heavy handed tactic, but bringing out the greed is likely to have the highest probability of success and if some innocent victims get caught up in the net, it might teach the owners that they need to keep their dogs confined. Desperate times require desperate measures. I personally don't find anything charming about stray dogs on the beach menacing people and shitting everywhere, but that's just me.
Balifrog
In all honesty if culling worked I would be for it too but it simply is a very short term solution - and that's why there are stray dogs everywhere in the world.[/QUOTE]Not everywhere in the world ! Only in a certain type of countries...Another thing to keep in mind concerning locals not being in favor of culling is the believe (in most of SEA) in re-incarnation.So, the dog you "put to sleep" could in fact be an ancestor.Of course if your ancestor re-incarnates as a dog, gecko or lizard it means his previous life was probably not so exemplary and he accumulated a lot of bad karma...but he is still an ancoster.
Chris A
Not everywhere in the world ! Only in a certain type of countries...Another thing to keep in mind concerning locals not being in favor of culling is the believe (in most of SEA) in re-incarnation.So, the dog you "put to sleep" could in fact be an ancestor.Of course if your ancestor re-incarnates as a dog, gecko or lizard it means his previous life was probably not so exemplary and he accumulated a lot of bad karma...but he is still an ancoster.[/QUOTE]Greed would win in a millisecond. I spoke to my driver about this premise and although he did not outright denounce the premise, he also was pretty ambivalent. Probably a result of the bad karma aspect. I think the premise is a convenient excuse to not deal with the problem.
Balifrog
Greed would win in a millisecond. I spoke to my driver about this premise and although he did not outright denounce the premise, he also was pretty ambivalent. Probably a result of the bad karma aspect. I think the premise is a convenient excuse to not deal with the problem.[/QUOTE]Ignoring or closing the eyes on a problem is a typical Asian way to handle "delicate" issues.
Shadrach
Ignoring or closing the eyes on a problem is a typical Asian way to handle "delicate" issues.[/QUOTE]Yes this is so true! Whenever I ask for something, I always get the Tunggu Sebentar response. Then I wait and wait, and never get a response. Just a quiet disappearance from the people, I asked the question. A few days later, I ask again. Again please wait, while they do nothing. Certainly I wouldn't want them to lose face! By saying they don't have an answer? I remember about 30 years ago in Ubud. It was much more slow and quiet those days. The was a big problem with too many aggressive dogs at night, scaring the tourist walking home at night. I mean 20 dogs surrounding the tourist and growling! It was bad, so the local town authorities did something to get rid of them. I believe they put out poisoned meat to kill them off. But it was done at night so no one really knows. But what ever they did, fixed the problem!
