Increasing animosity towards bule: Real or fake news?

YachtRock

I'm sure most of you heard about this tourist girl that got assaulted in Canggu over an expensive camera. For those that don't know, here's the article:[URL]https://thebalisun.com/bali-police-have-not-located-man-who-attacked-tourist-on-beach/[/URL]To me, the more disturbing part of the article is this:[I][B]"As shocking as this case sounds, it is not the first of its kind. As more people are coming forward about incidents of attacks or attempted attacks, anecdotal evidence is growing that shows that the atmosphere towards tourists in Bali has changed over the last 6-12 months.[/B][/I][B][I][/I][/B][I][B]Bali-based community forums online are sharing more and more stories, posted anonymously, of incidents where tourists have been attacked, near-attacked or threatened on the island, specifically in busy tourism resorts."[/B][/I]Personally, I have not experienced any increased animosity or hostility in the last 6 - 12 months. Then again, I don't hang around Canggu or do anything to piss off the locals by disrespecting their culture. Curious what others have experienced on here.

sakumabali

difficult topic...having so many tourists in your country is a mixed blessing. As the old saying: you can keep your cookie or eat your cookie you cannot do both. Apparently Bali wants to do both. They want the money but don't want to see / hear tourists. Imagine in Europe we would have these kind of double standards politics towards legal visitors aka visa holders. On Bali you have to accept the local rules & culture and shut up. There's no cultural fusion as in France or England for example. Ok Bali is an island (hindu vs muslim majority) so it's automatically more sealed off.What I have to admit: when I meet someone who doesn't speak any common language (let's say only mandarin) I often believe for a moment this person must be an uneducated & simple human being. China has more than a billion people and is a cultural economic powerhouse; a tourist comes for a visit doesn't need necessarily speak fluent English when just want to visit the Cologne Cathedral.But that's the case on Bali; we don't speak Bahasa Bali and not fluently Indonesian (at least the most); so the Indonesians are thinking - in a unreflected manner - we are just ordinary people. Perhaps even rich ordinary people with an insurance & health coverage. Add the pressure of "having the right things" and you have the dilemma...I must say that I never had any serious problem on Bali. Balinese are friendly but this doesn't mean they like you or accept you. I had a friendly balinese neighbor for years. That changed in a second when I asked him friendly about his noisy dog (chained to his gate almost every night). His answer: if you don't like it here feck off

YachtRock

I must say that I never had any serious problem on Bali. Balinese are friendly but this doesn't mean they like you or accept you. I had a friendly balinese neighbor for years. That changed in a second when I asked him friendly about his noisy dog (chained to his gate almost every night). His answer: if you don't like it here feck off[/QUOTE]You bring up a very important point here. Indonesia, like many Asian countries, has a "saving face" culture. Losing their temper and confrontation is typically avoided at all costs. So it begs the question, what percentage of locals really hate our presence here but just never show it?That's kind of the lazy way to look at it in my opinion. It's easy to say "Indonesians are anti-foreigners who are just putting up with our shit to make a few easy bucks." But in my experience, if you go the extra mile to adopt the culture, and learn the language, you will be rewarded with some level of acceptance. I had a friend who's neighbor was burning trash. One day, he had enough of it, stormed over there and tore the guy a new asshole. The next day the neighbor made an even bigger trash fire and basically told my friend "fuck off to your country."A few months later, he tried a different approach: "melukat remen." It focuses on open communication, understanding each other's perspectives, and finding a solution agreeable to everyone with the help of a mediator from the banjar. Just like that, the trash fires stopped. So this is a long way of saying, yes, Balinese are tired of foreigners...foreigners who continue to disrespect the culture. But if these bule made even the slightest effort to assimilate, we'd see hate crimes go way down.

sakumabali

Shadrach

I'm not as optimistic as you. Even the assimilated expat comes from a different culture where situations & words being interpreted in different ways.Half of my family is balinese. I once said to a family member who's roof was falling apart: "Kami harus memperbaiki atapmu" in the meaning "ought to fix the roof"; much later I heard I'm promised him a new roof but never kept my word. I thought this was very weird, what a misunderstanding!Even if you lived for many years on Bali and have your own business and speak Bahasa I would not recommend you to go to the Banjar when there's a problem (if you can send a balinese). the social hierarchy has a racist drift. On top is the balinese man; then balinese woman & kids; then Indonesians and right at the end the "foreigner".In case of an - let's say - motorbike accident you can see this clearly. if a Banjar member is involved it's the fault of the balinese who's not from that Banjar; if Balinese vs Indonesian it's the fault of the Indonesian. And always the fault of the "bule" because there would be no accident if he stayed in his country. My point is: you can be as open minded as you want you will never be a valued member of balinese society for real. (exceptions: you are contributing big time f.e. financial dependency etc)[/QUOTE]Well said about the motorbike accident! It's always someone else's fault! The part about losing face, drives me crazy! If I ask someone for something, I want, They never say yes or no, they just go away and only return if they can produce what I want. If not, they just never tell me, or never return! I have seen, living here with the locals, they are afraid of asking a neighbor if they can borrow something. It seems to me, their is not much Love between the people! They don't seem to have free will, or imagination! Most just repeat what their parents did or what everyone else does, and always have a bankrupt mentality! Which keeps them always down. Which leads to always having a hand out to tourists! With no reciprocation!

harryopal1

Cant' say I notice any increased animosity and in general I find that locals are much more polite and friendly towards bule than is the case in Australia. Doesn't seem to be the same level of road rage here which is just as well given the increasingly heavy traffic. What negative response we might experience is something like that felt by most migrants in western countries. If there is a difference then anger will soon elevate any incipient hostility. There is a bibilical saying, " a soft voice turneth away wrath". Across a long lifetime I have found this to be true. Whatever the problem remaining calm and respectful is best. But in life accidents and bad things happen. My general feeling is that one is overall safer here than in Australia.

YachtRock

Well said about the motorbike accident! It's always someone else's fault! The part about losing face, drives me crazy! If I ask someone for something, I want, They never say yes or no, they just go away and only return if they can produce what I want. If not, they just never tell me, or never return! I have seen, living here with the locals, they are afraid of asking a neighbor if they can borrow something. It seems to me, their is not much Love between the people! They don't seem to have free will, or imagination! Most just repeat what their parents did or what everyone else does, and always have a bankrupt mentality! Which keeps them always down. Which leads to always having a hand out to tourists! With no reciprocation![/QUOTE]Tread lightly there brother. I see you're making a lot of generalization and making "always" and "never" statements. That's a slippery slope to go down and that's how we have so many jaded expats here. Do not judge an entire culture of people based on a few bad apples. There are people in your home country with bankrupt mentalities and the inability to think outside of the box. There are people who always blame the other and don't take accountability. These are not things unique to Bali, but basic human traits you can find in every country. I've met some bad locals for sure but the vast majority are polite, generous and reasonable if approached calmly and respectfully.

Balifrog

BaliSun is not really high quality journalism....One week it will be all about bad foreignersNext week all about how foreigners love Balinese cultureThe week after all about all those marvelous things Bali has to offer.Throw in now and then the admiratif reports for all those grandiose projects that are coming...second airport, a light rail system, a subway, an electric bus system etc....Meanwhile the few realisations I saw were new shopping malls, completely useless excep for the selfie crowd.Concerning the people, I just keep basic relations, a handshake and Hello ! Keep it simple, and avoid complications.

AuroraB

My point is: you can be as open minded as you want you will never be a valued member of balinese society for real. (exceptions: you are contributing big time f.e. financial dependency etc)[/QUOTE]Generous amount of money smooth over any issues in Indonesia!

YachtRock

Generous amount of money smooth over any issues in Indonesia![/QUOTE]I would say this applies to a majority of country's in the world though. Humans can be greedy pieces of shit sometimes

Markit

Strangely I fail to recognize the Bali or Balinese that many here describe and I've been in several car/bike accidents.In my 15 years here I've also found that Indonesians, in general, are always ready to defer on matters international to foreigners, but things of an Indonesian/Balinese nature it seems to depend entirely on who you are as to whether your opinion is listened to and it doesn't have anything to do with money as far as I can see. I've seen the richest bule laughed at for some dumbshit ideas here - "You should build a road over that temple" or "why not use plastic flowers and rice in those offerings and then you could reuse them?", etc.For instance I would never consider commenting on anything to do with religion here other than to say I'm a devout atheist and wouldn't spend a dollar for all the gods they can find. Funnily this is always greeted with a knowing/understanding smile and no comment. Either my fame has preceded me or they secretly agree?!I've always wondered why we don't get any Balinese expats, living in Europe or the US for instance, on this forum. Does anyone know if there are any expat forums for Balinese that travel or live abroad?

sakumabali

Shadrach

Balinese expats, living in Europe or USA, I know there a few, are too busy to chit chat in a forum. Most they are entrepreneurs (kids studying in Cambridge or Yale). Different kind of fellowshipP.S: all I know is that Balinese are relaxed about your chosen religion. But for them it is important that you have ANY KIND OF religion.[/QUOTE]Why? It's none of their business! Not everyone is brainwashed by the status quo! Some people question, or don't believe, or have a religion! I think it's a good idea to use your own mind, and decide what's best for you!

Balifrog

Why? It's none of their business! Not everyone is brainwashed by the status quo! Some people question, or don't believe, or have a religion! I think it's a good idea to use your own mind, and decide what's best for you![/QUOTE]Calm down.....Don't ask other people, other culture to think like you ! Having lived with several Asians, I know very well which subjects to avoid....

Shadrach

I Calm down.....Don't ask other people, other culture to think like you !Having lived with several Asians, I know very well which subjects to avoid! [/QUOTE]I am calm. I said people should think for themselves, and make their own decisions, about religion. This subject, along with politics, are two subjects to avoid talking about everywhere. Especially family gatherings!

frogusmaximus

AuroraB

I would suggest that when you allow 600K people to enter a country who btring a lot of money with them and do not wish to integrate, that will lead to a slowly growing resentment.[/QUOTE]My cynical side think there are a lot of Balinese overjoyed by the huge windfall becoming them from all the cashed up Russians developing projects, buying and renting without negotiations. My villa agent told me the Russians she is dealing with are not price sensitive at all. Look at all the locals driving brand new and expensive cars and motorbikes. A local and a racing machine just passed my place at 110 dBA. The money must have come from somewhere. Happy days for the non productive Balinese.

Shadrach

Having been here 14 or so years I would say the road rage and general riding rudeness is at an all time high.In general people with the higher powered mopeds and more often than not ridden by bule. Had to stop numerous times this year before I was hit by oncoming traffic on my side of the road from riders who simply will not wait for an overtaking opportunity and simply expect me to stop to allow them a freeway. Others simply hit the gas in multiple situations and don't bother indicating or value the lives of other road users. Have had two morons speed down my gang without due care to the dogs on it. When stopped and confronted - i stood in front of him - he told me he expected the dogs to clear out of the way when he came down the street. He was lost for words when i asked if the dogs had a higher IQ than he did.Know a lot of people who let out property and a growing number are avoiding Russians with whom they have had poor experiences. I run a number of community groups here and almost every nationality under the sun is represented other than Russians. I would suggest that when you allow 600K people to enter a country who btring a lot of money with them and do not wish to integrate, that will lead to a slowly growing resentment.[/QUOTE]All very good points. I mean what's the hurry? Bali is a very small island. And the motorbike drivers that over take the oncoming lane, because they are so much in a hurry. Is really upsetting. It is obvious that there are more cars and motorbikes than the Bali roads are meant for. I have said before, there needs to be built a central bypass running North and South from Sanur to Singaraja. Not a toll road, and not a new airport. First build larger roads, and improve the infrastructure! There has been this fever to sell the rice fields, and build and develop more villas, and resorts, for Thirty years! Now the Russians are coming in, buying the land around Ubud and building huge new resorts, it is only happening, because the Bali people want the money Now! And they are selling the land to rich Indonesian people who partner with the Russians.

AuroraB

Here an Australian banned by immigration based on apparently incorrect info and without the dude even been contacted by immigration. If this is the new trend many more could be victim to false rumours and black campaigns.[MEDIA=youtube]sE8Q_IhlD2g[/MEDIA]This is the video that was basis for immigration "investigation" and ban:[MEDIA=youtube]9Zqzuk6GWQo:130[/MEDIA]