Dori
Good morning from Europe. My husband and I are looking into relocating to Bali. Our daughter lives in Perth and initially that's where we would have liked to be, but the visa costs are high and it defeats the purpose of going there to help fund a helping hand up the property ladder. So our next option is Bali. If fellow forum members would please help us as much as they can from personal experience , we would be very grateful. Estate agents, immigration agents etc etc only tell you what they think you want to hear.Ok, a little about us. Both retired. Intending to buy a modest property ( remember the daughter ). The way of life is different but as we have already moved from our home country we ' do different' so that bit doesn't phase us.Basically the ups/downs, pros/cons of buying.Health insurancepublic health cover BPJSareas not to touch with a barge poleI'll leave it there now. Thanking you in advance for any help.Dori
harryopal
Whatever the answers, good, bad or indifferent, best to come and allow yourself an uncommitted period of maybe 6 weeks to look around, get a feel for the place and see if the responses to many questions match the reality.A useful process before laying out a further variety of questions is to post any of the areas of of interest using the search facility. (See above "search forums") There is already a wealth of information contained within the site.
Dori
Thank you for that info, Harryopal.
sayangku
Well- you can't buy. You can lease for 20-30 years or so.What visa are you going to use? Second home visa? Health insurance - either self insure (pay as you go) or one of the blue chips (AXA/ Allianz etc) BPJS. Not sure. If you are on a working visa you need to enroll. But as you are on a non working visa, not sure if you can joinAreas not to touch with bargepole - relocating your belongings. You need to pay import duty, and negotiating the value of the goods will be a nightmare.
Markit
Welcome! As a retired couple wishing to enjoy their retirement AND aid their daughter in Oz up or onto the property ladder I suspect your best first option would be to decide what you both wish to do with your "golden years". Whether they intend to now or not your daughter will probably bless you with rugrats and that means you will most likely be spending significant time in Oz and therefore buying a property on Bali, not only from the financial side which you indicate you want to benefit the daughter, will not really be worth the investment. Or? Therefore I'd suggest a long term rental or leasehold in a lovely stand alone apartment in a luxury development. That way it will be adequately looked after when you're not there and won't cause most of the ownership "issues" that buying property here can cause. UNLESS you suspect your kids and grandkids will be visiting you here on a regular basis - not an unlikely possibility what with the attraction most Ozzies seem to have for these lovely shores. Having said that and knowing many couples in a similar situation I will tell you a Bali secret: Most people that get regular visits, and that's most of us on Bali, tend to look forward to those visits less and less. Initially it's great having the whole family around you 24/7 but after the first week or 10 days it does get old, quickly. Hence my suggestion of the apartment, so that your visitors will, of necessity, have to find another option stay in a hotel, homestay, apartment, etc. very near your place, there are thousands. This may sound harsh (what, me?!) but trust me you'll thank me later and so will your visitors. As to where - avoid the south like it's got the plague, it does. Ditto Ubud and sadly now Sanur also. That leaves about 90% of the island for you to play on - Harry's idea of 6 weeks to trip around measure the "vides" in different parts of the island is a good one. I based myself in Ubud because it's central but that's 15 years and about 10 million yoga freak, tree-hugging, woke, Namaste shouting, feckwits ago. I would advise somewhere on the East Coast where I live (naturally) and get a good driver (I can help) and take some time to see the place. By the way what are your plans?
sakumabali
Hey Dori, I'd agree with most of these posts. Still I wouldn't focus on east of Bali. If you really like the remote areas w/o any infrastructure you might give it a look. However if I would be over 60 years old I really would want a good hospital nearby. Plus sometimes a western restaurant and supermarket. So I always found Sanur rather boring (but fun on a lazy Sunday afternoon)...I'd consider the areas up north & east from Canggu as well towards Tabanan if you like it quiet. Downside: Jalan Canggu is a nightmare! so need to find other roads BEFORE you move. So rent first, don't buy!!
Dori
Well- you can't buy. You can lease for 20-30 years or so.What visa are you going to use? Second home visa? Health insurance - either self insure (pay as you go) or one of the blue chips (AXA/ Allianz etc) BPJS. Not sure. If you are on a working visa you need to enroll. But as you are on a non working visa, not sure if you can joinAreas not to touch with bargepole - relocating your belongings. You need to pay import duty, and negotiating the value of the goods will be a nightmare.[/QUOTE]When I say buy I realise it's a leasehold property. Retirement visas.Thank you for the reply
Dori
Hey Dori, I'd agree with most of these posts. Still I wouldn't focus on east of Bali. If you really like the remote areas w/o any infrastructure you might give it a look. However if I would be over 60 years old I really would want a good hospital nearby. Plus sometimes a western restaurant and supermarket.So I always found Sanur rather boring (but fun on a lazy Sunday afternoon)...I'd consider the areas up north & east from Canggu as well towards Tabanan if you like it quiet. Downside: Jalan Canggu is a nightmare! so need to find other roads BEFORE you move. So rent first, don't buy!![/QUOTE]Thank you for the info
Dori
Markit. Thanks for the reply. ok we've seen villas that have a 99 yr lease??? Thoughts please.can you point me in the direction of a letting/rental agent?we don't want to be remote so somewhere with a bit of life nearby.I'm 57 and husband is 70 so neither of us interested in 'Gods waiting room' type place.
sakumabali
there are these 99 years leasehold sales. I heard from a very accurate lawyer that the Indonesian law just accepting lease under 30 years (with an extension then)...I would spend some money for a precise checkup (there are some foreign law companies). One thing for sure: these hippie "having the land in the name of my maid" days are over ;)you can google "rumah sakit baru di Bali", there are new hospitals in the Jimbaran and Sanur areaif you get a lease/ rental offered I'd take these documents (proof of ownership etc) to a notary
Dori
no we are definitely not going down that route that the maid owns my home. yes I have been looking for a notary also. After searching this forum the name Eddy Winarta came up. there are these 99 years leasehold sales. I heard from a very accurate lawyer that the Indonesian law just accepting lease under 30 years (with an extension then)...I would spend some money for a precise checkup (there are some foreign law companies). One thing for sure: these hippie "having the land in the name of my maid" days are over ;)you can google "rumah sakit baru di Bali", there are new hospitals in the Jimbaran and Sanur areaif you get a lease/ rental offered I'd take these documents (proof of ownership etc) to a notary[/QUOTE]
Balifrog
Retired in Bali since 5 years, just my 5 cents :- come on holyday (6 weeks)- if step 1 statisfying, move over, rent for 1 year.- if step 2 satisfying plan to stay longer.At retirement age I don't see the point of 25 / 30 years leasing, let alone 99 y (except if you're very optimistic....)Renting yearly (or 2 y contracts) gives you flexibility to move on if for any reason the neigbourhood goes to shit.Personally we stayed 1 year in a resort, and we decided to continue. Advantages : great garden, 25 m pool, all without worries about maintenance. Same for the bungalow (2 floor, 1 bedroom), any problem, call the boss and it is fixed the same day. Area : up to you, for me living without proximity of.restaurants, supermarkets carrying French products, absence of a decent crowd of Western people is a nono.Doesn't mean you have to live in Levian street or Cangu city !
britoo
When I say buy I realise it's a leasehold property. Retirement visas.Thank you for the reply[/QUOTE]Dori + significant other,welcome to this forum and good luck with your new adventure.Consider not all "leaseholds" are created equal; Hak Sewa, Hak Pakai and [I]Hak Guna Bangunan[/I] for example. All will be pitched to you and may be or not be appropriate. Do your own research on land titles and property registration (IMB) as the buck frankly stops with you and you are unlikely to be able to hold an errant adviser to account unless you have deep pockets.please check out the following whilst considering if your appetite is to covet capital gains or to mitigate country specific risks regarding your capital ... if that makes sense.[I][URL unfurl="true"]https://www.mrfixitbali.com/buying-property-and-land/buying-land-bali-leasehold-210.html[/URL][/I]As retirees, on a retirement visa, I believe you are eligible to "own" under the title Hak Pakai, which on the face of it appears to be a leasehold but unlike a pure leasehold (Hak Sewa) can be sold on by you to an eligible party as Hak Milik (freehold), thus preserving potential capital gains. The actual freehold in this transaction reverts to the government and should be relinquished by the private seller in this case. However should your visa situation change and you become ineligible to "own" property you will be obliged to sell it on promptly.Beyond that, there's a lot of wisdom presented to you in previous posts.Best wishes.
sakumabali
Dori I'd consider S.A.B.A in Sanur (a German lawyer who's very capable)
harryopal
Not sure what kind of visa you assume you will be able to set up. If you are considering using an agent then probably best to look for a referral from this web site. It seems if you use an agent then you are kind of permanently attached and evidently there are some agents exploit this with not only high charges but misleading information that works to their advantage not for the client. Balifrog's suggestion of living initially in a resort has merit especially during the visa processing stage and while getting a general sense of life here. By the way, assuming you may want to use a car or motorbike, it is important to have your home licence and an international licence. Adding to the potential confusion living here is that the Bali governor keeps coming up with ideas of preventing bule (foreigners) from making their own self driving arrangements and limiting access for hiring transport. What kind of time frame do you have in mind for the shift?
matsaleh
.....As retirees, on a retirement visa, I believe you are eligible to "own" under the title Hak Pakai, which on the face of it appears to be a leasehold but unlike a pure leasehold (Hak Sewa) can be sold on by you to an eligible party as Hak Milik (freehold), thus preserving potential capital gains. The actual freehold in this transaction reverts to the government and should be relinquished by the private seller in this case. However should your visa situation change and you become ineligible to "own" property you will be obliged to sell it on promptly.[/QUOTE]Resident status is no longer required for buying property on Hak Pakai or Hak Guna Bangunan title. Posted by Matthew Brealey on FB group, Law and Regulations in Indonesia (with the relevant regulation posted):"It is also spelled out several times that the required documents to purchase a house are visa, stay permit or passport. The requisite form has a field: "NIK atau nomor visa/paspor/izin tinggal". So you can buy a house as a tourist, it is not required to be a resident."
Markit
Resident status is no longer required for buying property on Hak Pakai or Hak Guna Bangunan title.Posted by Matthew Brealey on FB group, Law and Regulations in Indonesia (with the relevant regulation posted):"It is also spelled out several times that the required documents to purchase a house are visa, stay permit or passport. The requisite form has a field: "NIK atau nomor visa/paspor/izin tinggal". So you can buy a house as a tourist, it is not required to be a resident."[/QUOTE]Which, most importantly for people of an age, means you can also bequeath your property to your heirs, who will need to gain the relevant visa (possibly even not?) but never the less quite a jump for "ownership" here.
Dori
Thank you all, every one of you for taking the time to post your knowledge. I'm truly grateful. There's a lot to sift through and I think finding a good lawyer will be top priority. I'll be keeping you updated and answering questions asked. Have a great weekend.
Dori
Sorry, another question. How do you all manage with the open living?
Balifrog
Sorry, another question. How do you all manage with the open living?[/QUOTE]What do you mean with "open living" ?
