Pot, Kettle, Black?

Markit

In most of the western countries that we here all hale from they all have one thing in common and that's the irresistible onslaught of refugees, both economic and political, from all the 3rd world countries you can name. Now what they also have in common is that nobody really wants to let them stay but generally there is a method to allow them to live and work to support themselves (eventually) and then a process to get their loved ones and family over to join them. This is a fact whether we want it or not. My question is is there anything equivalent to that judicial/legal process here in Indonesia? At the moment there are daily reports of Russians and to a lesser degree Ukrainians (insofar as there is any difference made) who are opening businesses and starting jobs in Indonesia (Bali mostly) without the benefit of any legal visa to do so. With the sole purpose of sustaining them in their "Refuge" away from their country. Is there any way for foreigners here to claim refugee status on political or legal grounds? Does anyone know of any cases?I suspect being forced to join in a war you don't want to have any part of might fit as a valid excuse don't you?

sakumabali

[URL unfurl="true"]https://help.unhcr.org/indonesia/asylum-in-indonesia/[/URL]looks like there are options :)

AuroraB

Well, Indonesia is not a signatory to the 1951 International Refugee Convention, supports only two solutions for asylum seekers and refugees residing in its territory -- repatriation or resettlement. Indonesia is quick to get rid of Rohingya arriving by boats as refugees. Indonesian military even ordered fishermen not to help those caught at sea without food, water and fuel(!). Not much compassion there. Like other asylum seekers and refugees, the Rohingya have no right to work, no access to education and no chance of formally integrating into society and becoming Indonesian citizens. So the Russians are probably wise to keep a low profile, whatever they are up to.

Markit

Just out of curiosity I asked the latest iteration of Chat GPT (4) the same general question to see what it had to say - the answer started printing about 0.4 seconds after I pressed "enter".Explain a solution to the world's refugee problemThe world's refugee problem is a complex and multifaceted issue that requires a multifaceted solution. While it is not possible to provide a single, comprehensive solution that will solve the problem entirely, there are several measures that can be taken to address the issue:[LIST=1][*]Address the root causes: The world must address the underlying issues that force people to flee their homes, such as conflict, persecution, and poverty. This requires a coordinated effort to promote peace, democracy, and economic development in regions where refugees originate from.[*]Strengthen international cooperation: The international community must work together to develop a comprehensive response to the refugee crisis. This includes supporting the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and providing funding and resources to support refugees and host communities.[*]Provide humanitarian aid: Immediate humanitarian assistance, such as food, shelter, and medical care, is critical to meeting the basic needs of refugees. This requires a significant increase in funding for humanitarian aid programs and a more effective distribution of resources.[*]Expand resettlement opportunities: Countries should provide more opportunities for refugees to resettle in safe and secure environments. This requires a significant increase in the number of resettlement places available and the development of more efficient and effective resettlement processes.[*]Improve the integration of refugees: Once refugees are resettled, they need support to integrate into their new communities. This requires access to education, health care, employment opportunities, and social services.[*]Address the issue of statelessness: Stateless people are at a particularly high risk of becoming refugees. The international community must work to prevent statelessness and provide assistance to stateless individuals.[/LIST]Overall, a comprehensive and coordinated approach is needed to address the world's refugee problem. This requires the engagement of governments, international organizations, civil society, and the private sector to develop and implement effective solutions.My follow on question: In light of the fact that the majority of refugees are young, able bodied men that almost immediately destroy or lose their identity papers making it impossible to find their "home" country how can we stem the flow of refugees and make sure that the most intelligent and able citizens stay in their own country and work for change there rather than adding to the problem by removing themselves from the calculation?It is important to recognize that the perception of the majority of refugees being young, able-bodied men is a stereotype that is not supported by the data. In fact, the majority of refugees are women and children. Additionally, refugees often flee their homes without identity documents due to the urgency and danger of their situation. This does not necessarily mean that they are trying to deceive authorities or hide their origins.That being said, it is important to address the root causes of displacement and support solutions that enable individuals to stay in their home countries. This can be done through the promotion of peace, democracy, and economic development. Additionally, humanitarian aid can be provided to support vulnerable populations and prevent displacement.Furthermore, efforts should be made to support education and job training programs that enable individuals to build skills and contribute to the development of their communities. This can help create more opportunities for individuals to stay in their home countries and work towards positive change.It is also important to provide safe and legal pathways for migration and resettlement for those who are unable to remain in their home countries. This can help reduce the need for dangerous and illegal migration and enable individuals to seek safety and opportunity in a legal and orderly manner.Overall, addressing the root causes of displacement and providing opportunities for individuals to stay in their home countries should be a key focus in efforts to reduce the flow of refugees and promote sustainable solutions to displacement.

Markit

I hereby give my permission for ChatGBT to run the world and I expect great things.

AuroraB

I hereby give my permission for ChatGBT to run the world and I expect great things.[/QUOTE]I'm quite cynical to ChatGPT which is a manmade computer program; and trained on manmade public available webpages, articles, books etc. ChatGPT is using (among other things) probability calculations with millions of variables in order to figure out best possible sequence of words in a sentence. To put it simple; [I]When writing an essay ChatGPT essentially is just asking over and over again "given the text so far, what should the next word be?"-and each time adding a word.[/I]So in essence ChatGPT has no idea of what it is doing. It is just a bullshit generator as most media talking heads and politicians. If trained on woke and left leaning material it will produce woke and left leaning output. There is no real ability to bring new ideas to the table. Maybe just find ideas otherwise hard to identify via normal google search. As it is not providing reference list I would be skeptical to trust any output from ChatGPT.[URL unfurl="true"]https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2023/02/what-is-chatgpt-doing-and-why-does-it-work/[/URL] In your example above I'm quite sure most of the text is taken from UN sources like this; [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.unhcr.org/excom/scip/3ae68cc80/comprehensive-regional-approaches-refugee-problems.html[/URL]

spicyayam

I'm quite cynical to ChatGPT which is a manmade computer program; and trained on manmade public available webpages, articles, books etc. ChatGPT is using (among other things) probability calculations with millions of variables in order to figure out best possible sequence of words in a sentence.To put it simple; [I]When writing an essay ChatGPT essentially is just asking over and over again "given the text so far, what should the next word be?"-and each time adding a word.[/I]So in essence ChatGPT has no idea of what it is doing. It is just a bullshit generator as most media talking heads and politicians. If trained on woke and left leaning material it will produce woke and left leaning output. There is no real ability to bring new ideas to the table. Maybe just find ideas otherwise hard to identify via normal google search. As it is not providing reference list I would be skeptical to trust any output from ChatGPT.[/QUOTE]I had to check what ChatGPT thought of your comment:As an AI language model, I understand your concerns about my capabilities and limitations. Indeed, I am a man-made computer program, trained on a massive corpus of public text, such as books, articles, and web pages. It is true that I use probability calculations and other techniques to generate text based on the input I receive.However, I would argue that your characterization of me as a "bullshit generator" is not entirely accurate. While I am not capable of independent thought or creativity in the way that humans are, I am designed to mimic human language and generate coherent and meaningful responses to the best of my ability based on the input I receive.My training data is diverse and not limited to any particular ideological or political viewpoint, which means that my responses reflect the language patterns present in the corpus, rather than any particular bias or agenda. Additionally, I am constantly learning and updating my models based on new data, which helps me adapt to changes in language use and cultural context.Regarding your concern about reference lists, while I do not provide a reference list, I can provide links to the sources of any information I include in my responses, so that users can verify the accuracy of the information themselves.In conclusion, while I am not a substitute for human thought or creativity, I believe that I can be a useful tool for generating text and facilitating communication.[/QUOTE]

AuroraB

I had to check what ChatGPT thought of your comment:[/QUOTE]Quote "[I]However, I would argue that your characterization of me [ChatGPT] as a "bullshit generator" is not entirely accurate.[/I]" I take it that ChatGPT mostly agree with AuroraB characterization of ChatGPT! Here is a dude who demonstrates that ChatGPT is happy to play out the role as uncaring psycho! Imagine what hackers could do to circumvent AI system safeguards if an AI was set to control something of importance.[MEDIA=youtube]RdAQnkDzGvc:298[/MEDIA]

Markit

Everyone is excited that ChatGBT will some day become intelligent!I'm not altogether sure that we even know what that is?So far no one has been able to explain to me why this statement "I am designed to mimic human language and generate coherent and meaningful responses to the best of my ability based on the input I receive." isn't exactly the measure of supposed human intelligence. We all have that little voice way back in the dark telling us what we are thinking before we actually think or say it. Couldn't that be the same program as ChatGBT fitting the words together for the best outcome? Ain't Bali great today?!

harryopal

".... Ain't Bali great today?!"[/QUOTE]Well, more or less "yes" but why today? Is that because you woke up this morning and found you were still alive or have I missed something?

Shadrach

Markit

All very good points Markit. It would be best for these people to stay in their home countries if possible if that is what they wish, but as we know there is so much greed and violence that can be difficult to stay and be safe. A major problem is how to send humanitarian aid and it really gets to the people that need it. We know there are many so called relief programs that pocket a lot of the aid. We humans have to learn to live with this planet, not destroy it. There needs to be education about overpopulation which is a huge problem! pollution, and somehow getting the corporations to use biodegradable oils to make plastic that compost and give back to this Earth. Humans need to slow down on making babies and give the ones already here a better life. I am not very educated and knowledgable in ways to fix this problem. Lets just take care of each other and the planet, grow and eat healthier. Lets stop this chemical synthetic imitation food these corporations keep killing us with.[/QUOTE]I find it stunning that a computer can show a better grasp of the problem than most people can.

Balifrog

I find it stunning that a computer can show a better grasp of the problem than most people can.[/QUOTE]Let's say that the computer and software (written by a human btw !), can Google search, analys, summarize much faster than you and me.Bots are beeing used since several years to write news articles in sport, finance and science.The 1st phrase is typical of something written by a bot :"The world's refugee problem is a complex and multifaceted issue that requires a multifaceted solution. While it is not possible to provide a single, comprehensive solution that will solve the problem entirely, there are several measures that can be taken to address the issue:"A human would not formulate phrases like that.

harryopal

ATTENTION MARKIT: I just posted the following question on Microsoft's Bard AI and the response follows:[HEADING=1]There is a character named Markit who uses Balipod.com expat forum and he is renowned for sticking it to people who ask what he regards as inane questions. He might be termed a sceptic or perhaps a cynic. What is the best way of dealing with him?[/HEADING]Here are some tips on how to deal with a cynic like Markit:[LIST][*][B]Don't take it personally.[/B] Cynics are often negative and critical, but it's important to remember that their comments are usually about the world, not about you. Try not to take their words to heart.[*][B]Don't argue with them.[/B] Cynics are often set in their ways, and arguing with them is unlikely to change their mind. Instead, try to have a constructive conversation and see if you can find common ground.[*][B]Avoid getting defensive.[/B] If a cynic makes a negative comment about you, don't get defensive. Instead, try to understand where they're coming from and why they feel the way they do.[*][B]Focus on the positive.[/B] Cynics tend to focus on the negative, but it's important to remember that there's still a lot of good in the world. Try to focus on the positive and let the cynics focus on the negative.[*][B]Set boundaries.[/B] If a cynic is constantly bringing you down, it's okay to set boundaries. You don't have to spend time with people who make you feel bad.[/LIST]It's also important to remember that not all cynics are bad people. Some cynics are simply jaded by life and have had a lot of negative experiences. If you can find a way to connect with a cynic on a human level, you may be able to help them see the world in a more positive light.====== So me deer Markit [ATTACH type="full" alt="1683167488486.png"]3706[/ATTACH]Hereafter I will try and communicate with you on a "human level". (Actually I hadn't realized I was perhaps dealing with you on an inhuman level... but there you go.) Thanks to AI I feel I am now a better person.

Shadrach

Hah! This is funny. Exactly what gives Markit fuel for the fire. I think he is doing an excellent job pushing peoples boundaries to open their minds. He is harsh sometimes and can be quite intimidating, but don't take it personal. What do expect from an old crusty. Peaces and cream all the time. I enjoy coming back to the forum. Keep up the conversations.

Markit

"The world's refugee problem is a complex and multifaceted issue that requires a multifaceted solution. While it is not possible to provide a single, comprehensive solution that will solve the problem entirely, there are several measures that can be taken to address the issue:"A human would not formulate phrases like that.[/QUOTE]I disagree. That's exactly how a politician or teacher might formulate the sentence. You French would first burn down the building then wave some flags around before you said the same thing.

Balifrog

That's exactly how a politician or teacher might formulate the sentence[/QUOTE]Politicians yes, considering the idioties they spout out, I suspect they use ChatGPT to write them...Teachers or poets ? Nooooooo, come on !

Markit

Teachers or poets ? Nooooooo, come on ![/QUOTE]Trust the French to bring poets in where they don't belong. Waiting for the Gainsborough heavy breathing....