spicyayam
My wife did some legal work for one of our (expat) friends. It was actually a big job, took a long time dealing with government and a nominee who tried to do whatever he could to make things difficult and cause trouble.My wife never quoted a price for the work. I know that is our mistake. She has now done the job. The friend said "thank you". But to be honest they really didn't seem grateful at all for the work that my wife point in. I guess we were just expecting them to ask how much the work would cost at some point. I know they got frustrated because the job took a long time, but at the same time they had no idea how much trouble the nominee was causing. I feel bad for my wife. She just says "forget it". I probably would also just say forget it, but the fact that they did not seems appreciative at all makes me annoyed and makes me want to say "something". They aren't close, close friends, more like neighbors. Any ideas for handling the situation?
Mark
I would send them a bill for the value of the services rendered. Obviously they know that a professional lawyer like your wife doesn't work for free, especially if the matter involves more than cocktail party advice. If they are honorable people they will either pay or at the very least have a discussion about the issue in an effort to reach an amicable settlement. If they don't do either then they're useless grifters who should be shunned.
harryopal
Along with the bill as suggested by Mark perhaps a polite letter along the lines: Dear so and so, Attached is the bill for the legal work done on your behalf. As you are aware dealing with government departments is not always easy and the nominee created many obstacles such as..... This is why it took quite some time to finally conclude the matter.A prompt payment would be most appreciated and we hope that we can be of some further assistance in the future.Your best mate etcGood luck. Amazing how many people have problems paying for services rendered. With that done, your wife's suggestion makes sense. Forget it. If they pay well and good and if they don't .... Perhaps you pay your wife or buy her a present of the value amounted to in the bill. I imagine your wife would be surprised and delighted and it may help you shrug off your bad feelings.
spicyayam
Sent an email last week, but no response from them.
harryopal
Ironically, these days letters are more effective. Most of us get so many emails every day and easy to miss odd things. If I have an institutional problem I send a letter to the CEO. The novelty of the letter means it does get seen. So easy to say, "Sorry, I didn't see that email."
spicyayam
We have similar businesses so in close contact. They aren't so good with computers and tech stuff so often ask for help. Since my wife sent the email they haven't contacted us at all. My wife sent a brief text the other day and no response, but you can see the message was read. Weird.
Mark
We have similar businesses so in close contact. They aren't so good with computers and tech stuff so often ask for help. Since my wife sent the email they haven't contacted us at all. My wife sent a brief text the other day and no response, but you can see the message was read. Weird.[/QUOTE]For something as serious as a lawyer bill - and no I'm not joking - I would suggest sending a signed, chopped, hard copy letter setting out the services rendered and charges, enclosed in a nice envelope and delivered by hand (maybe can use a courier service). Makes everything much more official and hard to ignore.
hafri
Spicy... If i were you i would visit them and slowly talk about the case. You are "in the middle" so i think they would listen to you when you explain the "problem". I dont think you get fully paid but i think when they understand the "problem" your neighbour will ask what it cost. Explain that business is business also for your wife.... Sad case.... If not... send a bill.
spicyayam
They now have the invoice and are questioning it. I doubt my wife would accept a part payment.
spicyayam
They asked for some other documents after my wife sent the invoice, all of which my wife provided. She went to their place to deliver them and since they were having dinner, she just dropped them off and they said something to the effect they would follow up with the payment. Since then nothing and now they refuse to take our calls. It so stupid since we are almost neighbors. I was more upset by the fact they didn't appreciative at all for the work my wife has done for them and just complained that it took so long, which was mostly due to their nominee, who they don't have a good relationship with.We have known them for nearly 10 years. Quite unbelievable really.
Mark
Sorry to hear about that spicy. It seems that some people come to Bali because they can't live under the rules of civil society where they are from, and believe that they have escaped and come to a utopia where anything goes and the normal 'rules of life,' e.g., being responsible for your actions, treating others with respect, paying your bills, etc. are optional. Unfortunately it seems that your wife got caught up with some of this lot and their delusions. On the other hand, it could just be a simple matter of a financial crisis in their life, but if that was the case they should have discussed this instead of telling your wife that they would follow up with payment. Probably time to forget about them and move on unless you have any other levers you are willing to pull - no need to specifically suggest these as I'm sure you already know them!
mugwump
I have read about your dilemma here before and each time backed away from replying, but have decided that if I could offer any help that I should. Why not chalk this up to a tough lesson learned and keep this from happening in the future.Resist engaging in discussing these problems in a social setting by stating something to the effect that "Just because we are friends doesn't mean that you should be committed to me for my professional services, but by the same token friendship doesn't mean that we can't have a professional relationship as well""If you are comfortable with that would you like to make an appointment at my office where I can provide you with a statement setting forth my fee structure, and answer any questions you may have regarding my services and you can decide if you wish to pursue gaining my counsel". "Whatever you decide certainly won't change our relationship as far as I am concerned, but will allow you to decide this on your own before committing to me".If they then decide to seek your counsel at that appointment and only then provide them with a document setting forth what you can do, your fee structure, etc. and have them sign it.You will then have created the environment that has clarified the situation without any ambiguous circumstances.
harryopal
"Closure" and "moving on" are such easy terms but some things never quite disappear.... such as being diddled out of a payment unfairly. Nearly 50 years ago as a freelance journlaist I accepted a job with Radio Australia helping cover the Asian Games in Bangkok. The staff fellow who set out the terms which was then $15 a day was also covering the games. The fee wasn't great but adequate. He then suggested we stay at a particular handy hotel which cost $11 a day and, in my innocence, I thought that would be covered by Radio Australia. At the end of the games and settling up, the staff bloke then took $11 a day for the hotel out of my $15 saying that they could get local journalists cheaper. You can be sure that his hotel bill and other costs didn't come out of his pay packet. Gradually, I let it go but just occasionally it still rankles when reminded of it such as with Spicayam's experience.As they say Spicyayam "move on" but I don't think you will entirely forget it.
spicyayam
Thanks for your replies. It is a bit of a weird situation. The couple maybe aren't a typical husband/wife situation. One is a more reasonable person and easy to talk to, the other more difficult to deal with, but it does seem that the more difficult person is the one with the cash. The more reasonable person said they don't have the money, but will make payments every month from their pension. On one hand, they are a couple so it doesn't matter who the money actually comes from, on the other hand, it doesn't feel nice taking money from a pensioner.My wife got help from this job, so she has to pay that person also. They still have issues with their nominee, so for sure they will be asking for help again soon.
