Shadrach
We discussed the subject with a Swiss friend who some time ago had a very negative experience in Sanur's actual biggest hospital on the Bypass.
Saw a doctor, who send him to another, who had not yet arrived.... Asking for information was useless, so he just paid his bill and left.
And this is a Swiss, known for being very calm and patient people, and who speaks fluently Indonesian.
So yes, hopefully things will improve, but it will take a long, long time.
Not sure I'll still be around.....
Don't you just love how if someone here doesn't know something, they just give you the good old Jam Karet, Mungkin, Tunggu Sebentar!
harryopal1
No country is made up of a monolithic block of people who make the decisions. The notion that everything should be perfect in your own country before you can be critical of conditions in another is neither realistic nor consistent with history. Campaigning whether it be for human rights, health care or on environmental issues for example are universal concerns. International support for people living in a state of hostility from national or regional governments is often of great importance in pressuring governments and enabling the morale of people whose very lives may be at risk protesting.
Should there be no criticism of China or Russia for imprisoning people without a proper process of law because there are legal grievances in our own country? Should Saudi Arabia or the Arab Emirates be immune from criticism for their despicable treatment of migrant workers because there are often issues of improper work conditions in our home countries?
Shadrach
Ver
No country is made up of a monolithic block of people who make the decisions. The notion that everything should be perfect in your own country before you can be critical of conditions in another is neither realistic or consistent with history. Campaigning whether it be for human rights, health care or on environmental issues for example are universal concerns. International support for people living in a state of hostility from national or regional governments is often of great importance in pressuring governments and enabling the morale of people whose very lives may be at risk protesting.
Should there be no criticism of China or Russia for imprisoning people without a proper process of law because there are legal grievances in our own country? Should Saudi Arabia or the Arab Emirates be immune from criticism for their despicable treatment of migrant workers because there are often issues of improper work conditions in our home countries?
Very well put Harryopal! After reading that comment about criticizing other countries, and not your own, was in my opinion, not necessary, and not at all what I was getting at. What I said about health care and education, is a world wide subject, that goes beyond borders!
There is enough money in the world to do this, while in the mean time, so many people, especially innocent children, suffer, because of greedy and power hungry people, that don't give a damn about anyone, except the other people just like them.
I watched a video about two guys traveling across Madagascar, and how the humans living there, have almost completely destroyed 90% of the forest, for their needs. As they traveled on the train, every stop was flooded with dirty, hungry, begging children. It seems, there would be some way, to teach these people about birth control, healthcare, and educate the youth, about the need to keep the forest alive, and intact.
Like Sulawesi, there are animals that only come from there, and should be protected, so they don't go extinct!
Remember the Dodo bird, passenger pigeon,Tasmanian tiger, etc. all gone due to humans!
It's said, humans are so intelligent, but just look at what has been done, and it seems that assumption is false!
Balifrog
Ver
Very well put Harryopal! After reading that comment about criticizing other countries, and not your own, was in my opinion, not necessary, and not at all what I was getting at. What I said about health care and education, is a world wide subject, that goes beyond borders!
There is enough money in the world to do this, while in the mean time, so many people, especially innocent children, suffer, because of greedy and power hungry people, that don't give a damn about anyone, except the other people just like them.
I watched a video about two guys traveling across Madagascar, and how the humans living there, have almost completely destroyed 90% of the forest, for their needs. As they traveled on the train, every stop was flooded with dirty, hungry, begging children. It seems, there would be some way, to teach these people about birth control, healthcare, and educate the youth, about the need to keep the forest alive, and intact.
Like Sulawesi, there are animals that only come from there, and should be protected, so they don't go extinct!
Remember the Dodo bird, passenger pigeon,Tasmanian tiger, etc. all gone due to humans!
It's said, humans are so intelligent, but just look at what has been done, and it seems that assumption is false!
That's a lot of dreaming my man....
Having travelled the world I have learned to be cynical about human beings
Sad, but a fact.
Balifrog
Don't you just love how if someone here doesn't know something, they just give you the good old Jam Karet, Mungkin, Tunggu Sebentar!
Face, Face is the most important thing.....not only here. All over Asia, it's much worse in Thailand.
Balifrog
Dude traveling the world isn't anything special here - we all got here from somewhere else, you know? Now whether you're cynical or not I reckon that's just a function of being an old fart, speaking as one too.
.
Been in 60 countries, lived in 10.
More to the point, this hospital has been planned to develop a new kind of tourism "medical tourism" at reasonable cost. The idea from the government being "Thailand and Malaysia have succesfully developped in that area, sure we can so it as well".
It will not be easy as the 2 above mentionned countries have already a 2 decades positive history and reputation, so it's going to be quite a challenge.
Could they with that money have build 10 simple regional hospitals ? For sure, but they choose otherwise. Their country their rules.
And well ugly [USER=1532]@Markit[/USER], maybe you'll have a chance to do some "corrective chirurgy" ?
harryopal1
.
Been in 60 countries, lived in 10.
More to the point, this hospital has been planned to develop a new kind of tourism "medical tourism" at reasonable cost. The idea from the government being "Thailand and Malaysia have succesfully developped in that area, sure we can so it as well".
It will not be easy as the 2 above mentionned countries have already a 2 decades positive history and reputation, so it's going to be quite a challenge.
Could they with that money have build 10 simple regional hospitals ? For sure, but they choose otherwise. Their country their rules.
And well ugly @Markit, maybe you'll have a chance to do some "corrective chirurgy" ?
[B]And well ugly [USER=1532]@Markit[/USER][, maybe you'll have a chance to do some "corrective chirurgy" ?
Hey, that's a bit extreme, "...Ugly Markit." Disagreeable Markit, argumentative Markit, coarse and sometimes rude Markit. Yes.!..... but ugly? Have you seen him in the flesh? He might look like Errol Flynn, or George Clooney... Tom Cruise.[/B]
Shadrach
Back to the point of this hospital only catering to the well to do. You say they want it to be for (medical tourism) like Thailand and Malaysia. I heard the big one in Bangkok, does very good work. I don't know about the cost. I don't know about Malaysia. Not many people mention hospitals there. As for this country, From what I've seen, in Bali. There are very few qualified doctors, that can perform professional work. Most of the ones I've seen here, when you a person goes in for the consultation, just sit on their butts, do nothing, give some medication that might work, and then send you on your way, or refer you to another unqualified doctor. It seems to me, what you are saying this hospital will cater to foreigners that have more money. If the doctors are from Indonesia, then good luck with quality work! I doubt foreign doctors will work here, for lower wages.
Good service, for a reasonable price, should be available to all!
Markit, must be dashing as witty as he is!
Shadrach
I am pretty sure there are qualified ones in Jakarta. After that it's all a matter of motivating them.
In all the main BKK hospitals nearly all the doctors are Thai. Many overseas educated.
[LIST]
[*]BNH Hospital. ...
[*]Bumrungrad International Hospital. .
[*]Samitivej Sukhumvit Hospital. ...
[*]Bangkok International Hospital. ...
[*]The Bangkok Christian Hospital. ...
[*]Phyathai Hospitals. ...
[*]Praram 9 Hospital.
[/LIST]
Of course if you are looking for a 100k rp doctor visit, don't expect to have the best one.....
That's a good description of all the Thai hospitals. Are the good doctors here in Jakarta, because of the money? Truly a doctor's job is to heal people, regardless of the pay level. I know most of them are in debt, due the high cost of attending school for so many years. Something the government should subsidize.
I think a major part of the problem here is the people have been trained to be passive, and not question authority, or think for themselves! Of course I would be willing to pay more, for quality work. What I found was a huge lack of communication, and organization, between the nurses, doctors, hospital staff, with the patient. It is a sad situation that money is a deciding factor in health care.
Balifrog
That's a good description of all the Thai hospitals. Are the good doctors here in Jakarta, because of the money? Truly a doctor's job is to heal people, regardless of the pay level. I know most of them are in debt, due the high cost of attending school for so many years. Something the government should subsidize.
I think a major part of the problem here is the people have been trained to be passive, and not question authority, or think for themselves! Of course I would be willing to pay more, for quality work. What I found was a huge lack of communication, and organization, between the nurses, doctors, hospital staff, with the patient. It is a sad situation that money is a deciding factor in health care.
We discussed the subject with a Swiss friend who some time ago had a very negative experience in Sanur's actual biggest hospital on the Bypass.
Saw a doctor, who send him to another, who had not yet arrived.... Asking for information was useless, so he just paid his bill and left.
And this is a Swiss, known for being very calm and patient people, and who speaks fluently Indonesian.
So yes, hopefully things will improve, but it will take a long, long time.
Not sure I'll still be around.....
Chris A
Sure it won't take the top podium position from the start.
It will take many years....
Yes, years of consistent operation, delivering excellent results, and building a solid reputation. No excuses for broken down equipment, digital record keeping issues, and bad social media reviews. It's a tall mountain to climb, but I am hopeful.
AuroraB
Appears that the hardware (facilities and equipment) will be of high standard. If they also hire foreign doctors it could be an alternative to Malaysia and Thailand over time, although catching up to Singapore may never happen. Unfortunately I'm afraid the rates will be at Singapore level, i.e. very high for foreigners. E.g. orthopaedic surgery like repair of a wrist tfcc that takes less than 1.5 hour cost typically around SGD 25,000 all in at an reputable hospital in Singapore!
If they are not hiring foreign doctors it will at best be a glorified version of a Jakarta hospital with "international: rates.
Some description of the new hospital,
https://www.pertamina.com/en/news-room/news-release/reviewing-the-progress-of-bali-international-hospital-development-minister-of-soes-indonesia-is-ready-to-compete-in-global-health-tourism
Some of the plans for individual clinics:
In early 2024, some 16 health service centers and clinics are expected to be present at the Sanur SEZ, including 10 independent clinics and six service centers from Bali International Hospital (BIH).
The international independent clinics include the Mayo Clinic from the United States, an aesthetic clinic from South Korea, a hair transplant service from Turkey, a reproductive health clinic from Malaysia, the Alster Lake Clinic health clinic from Hamburg, and a health service from Japan, Tarmizi explained.
https://en.antaranews.com/news/312180/indonesia-singapore-leaders-retreat-discusses-hospital-investment
Rellek
Foreign Docs
My family's and my experience w/ medical services in Bali has been very positive. We moved to the North in mid-2021 at the height of the scamdemic with an eight month old child and had occasion to visit at least 3 hospitals in Singaraja for his care along with our care. We've been away for about a year and have recently moved to the South (not the real Bali) for our son to attend an international school and have visited a sister hospital of one of the ones we frequented in the North and overall were satisfied with the experience and the care received from the ENT.
So here we are a bit outside of Sanur with Bali International Hospital getting ready to open with little information other than it's being touted to attract medical tourism and perhaps curb some of the tendency for Indonesians of means to travel to Singapore or Bangkok. We are coming from 9 months in Bangkok and at this time will be traveling back to Bangkok for routine medical check ups and heaven forbid, any major issues that might arise. Bumrungrad Hospital should be used as the gold standard for which the new hospital should aspire to be.
I'm hopeful that the new international hospital will bring in some foreign docs to at least change some perceptions and to provide the illusion that the services being provided are a step above.
Thoughts?
State-of-the-Art medical facilities are worthless without competent world-class Drs. Maybe, MAYBE some will take the pay cut and leave Singapore or Thailand to come to Sanur but it will take years to build world-class staff at the hospital which is needed to make Bali a hub for Medical Tourism.
I've been going to RS Pondok Indah Sari in Jakarta for over a year now and it is wonderful! I pay fair prices for competent Drs. in sparkling clean facilities without waiting more than 15 minutes every time I visit. Prescription medicine is about 10% the price of what I pay for the same medicine on Bali!
My thoughts...The new International Hospital will initially be filled with Drs making the move from BIMC, BaliMed, Kasih Ibu, Siloan which in my opinion are no where near world-class Drs/Hospitals so I expect that what we may have is a glut of mediocre Drs and surgeons here for the next decade or so.
Balifrog
And definitely BPJS isn't going to pay for anyone to get service there!
Their target is sure not the 100k/month BPJS "clientèle"....
And not everybody has BPJS ! For instance this old frig doesn't have it (not married). But I have an "emergency fund" for small / medium problems.
In case of major problem (cancer or so) it will be time to check out from this world.
Shadrach
State-of-the-Art medical facilities are worthless without competent world-class Drs. Maybe, MAYBE some will take the pay cut and leave Singapore or Thailand to come to Sanur but it will take years to build world-class staff at the hospital which is needed to make Bali a hub for Medical Tourism.
I've been going to RS Pondok Indah Sari in Jakarta for over a year now and it is wonderful! I pay fair prices for competent Drs. in sparkling clean facilities without waiting more than 15 minutes every time I visit. Prescription medicine is about 10% the price of what I pay for the same medicine on Bali!
My thoughts...The new International Hospital will initially be filled with Drs making the move from BIMC, BaliMed, Kasih Ibu, Siloan which in my opinion are no where near world-class Drs/Hospitals so I expect that what we may have is a glut of mediocre Drs and surgeons here for the next decade or so.
That's great! You also will be required to pay much more, for mediocre work! Stupid is, as Stupid does.
Balifrog
State-of-the-Art medical facilities are worthless without competent world-class Drs. Maybe, MAYBE some will take the pay cut and leave Singapore or Thailand to come to Sanur but it will take years to build world-class staff at the hospital which is needed to make Bali a hub for Medical Tourism.
I've been going to RS Pondok Indah Sari in Jakarta for over a year now and it is wonderful! I pay fair prices for competent Drs. in sparkling clean facilities without waiting more than 15 minutes every time I visit. Prescription medicine is about 10% the price of what I pay for the same medicine on Bali!
My thoughts...The new International Hospital will initially be filled with Drs making the move from BIMC, BaliMed, Kasih Ibu, Siloan which in my opinion are no where near world-class Drs/Hospitals so I expect that what we may have is a glut of mediocre Drs and surgeons here for the next decade or so.
Sure it won't take the top podium position from the start.
It will take many years....
Shadrach
Yes, years of consistent operation, delivering excellent results, and building a solid reputation. No excuses for broken down equipment, digital record keeping issues, and bad social media reviews. It's a tall mountain to climb, but I am hopeful.
Both Balifrog and you have wishful thinking about this new hospital. I can only say, I have to see it to believe it. As you have all said, it can only succeed if it has quality foreign doctors, and staff that been properly trained. Which I doubt will happen, because from what I've seen, most facilities here cut corners, and don't want to shell out the bucks for service like this. And definitely BPJS isn't going to pay for anyone to get service there!
Chris A
Both Balifrog and you have wishful thinking about this new hospital. I can only say, I have to see it to believe it. As you have all said, it can only succeed if it has quality foreign doctors, and staff that been properly trained. Which I doubt will happen, because from what I've seen, most facilities here cut corners, and don't want to shell out the bucks for service like this. And definitely BPJS isn't going to pay for anyone to get service there!
It's a completely different business model. Hopefully some of the other hospitals will benefit from raising the bar at this hospital and if the new technology and equipment that is brought in is not available in existing facilities, it might provide some life saving options for folks that don't currently have that option even if BPJS is not an option to cover the costs. BPJS is the only option for some, but there are folks that are willing to do private pay or have international in-patient insurance that the new hospital brings options other than traveling out of the country to. Again, it's a start.
Chris A
An update...
Bali Sun BIH Update
As previously mentioned, I am hopeful that the new hospital will deliver health care comparable to Thailand and Singapore.
It's kind of odd, I can't find a website for the new hospital.
Markit
An update...
It's kind of odd, I can't find a website for the new hospital.
Same guy that works for Balipod maybe?
